Hamilton Stripped of Win - Official

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10th September 2008, 10:06
Tonieke

Quote:

Originally Posted by ioan

That's because you were giving contradictory opinions based on the drivers involved, and I wanted to see how objective you can be. Not getting any objective (without BUT's and IF's) answers from you up to know I can say you are a biased Hamilton supporter.

And no, I'm not sure about the penalty, and even if I was sure that he was guilty I think that I would have preferred a 10 places grid demotion in Monza instead of taking away a race win he earned on track after all.

yep I am a fan of Lewis..but I also dare to admit when in my eyes he does things wrong..makes stupid mistakes or whatever....To me He's just a real racer..who goes for it all the time...I like a driver who wants to pass another driver on the outside...even if it not always turns out great..It's racers like lewis (and he's surely not the only one) who make watching F1 exciting..and when someone attacks him..makes fun of him and whatever..and I see it as wrong..i will defend him...But I will never ever show hatery towards any other driver like you often do...Taking every occasion to make fun of and/or make lewis look bad...why actualy is that ? where is this hatery coming from ? His attitude ? i can't believe that..as your signature shows you like Michael a lot..and you can not deny he was the perfect sample of the most friendly driver either...

anyway..I agree with you on the penalty....If it was a deserved one....But I still wonder why ferrari had the 3th option in valencia ? a fine...
10th September 2008, 10:17
PolePosition_1

Quote:

Originally Posted by N. Jones

This thread could easily be closed if my question would or could be answered:

How far back should a car be after giving up a position gained by using a part of the ground that isn't considering the race track?

Well, thats the thing, no one seems to know. All we know that in the past, letting the car past is enough, as guided by the FIA.
10th September 2008, 10:20
Daniel

Quote:

Originally Posted by PolePosition_1

So did Massa, he left the pits into the path of Sutil, if he'd waited he would have lost 2 seconds. But he didn't gain a sporting advantage as it didn't change the results. Same as Hamilton, as Kimi went off anyway.

I don't agree with that at all.

Just because Kimi went off doesn't mean that Hamilton didn't deserve to be penalised. These are two separate issues.

Of course Massa got a sporting advantage from releasing sooner rather than later. Just as Lewis had a sporting advantage from being on pole, having a car which handled better in the wet and better on the hard tyres. The question is whether the advantage was gained in a legal and safe manner. It is the opinion of the stewards that Massa's release was not entirely unsafe but did justify some small punishment and that Lewis didn't negate the advantage enough to escape punishment.
10th September 2008, 10:22
Mickey T

Quote:

Originally Posted by ioan

If you didn't bother reading the comment by Massa, then why bother posting about it?
What I liked in Massa's comments was the part about the drivers briefing and the description of what is expected form a driver in case he cuts a chicane and gains an unfair advantage from doing so.
This is the first time anyone was able to tell us what Hamilton should have done. And the answer from the Hammy fanatics is that Massa is biased, like if you aren't! :rolleyes:

roll your eyes all you like, but there is ample evidence here to show i'm not a hammy fan.

i think he's a conniving little manipulator, but that doesn't mean he hasn't been wronged here.

i did read the comment, which is why i posted. you just assumed that i didn't because you thought (i suppose) that it gave you a witty retort and meant you didn't have to answer the actual counter argument, just it's tone.

i would listen to it, but without placing any strength behind it. i would pay little attention to the opinion of M Schumacher for the same reason and, you may have noticed, i didn't give any particular credibility to R Schumacher's comment either, because he is in the pay of Mercedes-Benz.

lauda i give credence to, because he's won championships for both teams. i wouldn't mind hearing from, say, webber or rubens on the subject. or even brundle, because i never heard his opinion.
10th September 2008, 10:28
Tonieke

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel

I don't agree with that at all.

Just because Kimi went off doesn't mean that Hamilton didn't deserve to be penalised. These are two separate issues.

Of course Massa got a sporting advantage from releasing sooner rather than later. Just as Lewis had a sporting advantage from being on pole, having a car which handled better in the wet and better on the hard tyres. The question is whether the advantage was gained in a legal and safe manner. It is the opinion of the stewards that Massa's release was not entirely unsafe but did justify some small punishment and that Lewis didn't negate the advantage enough to escape punishment.

by giving Massa a penalty Fia showed he made a mistake...a penalty is a penalty...and when giving out penalties in these cases at previous races there was either a drive through and or time penalty..why this time just a fine ?
10th September 2008, 10:36
ioan

Quote:

Originally Posted by PolePosition_1

So did Massa, he left the pits into the path of Sutil, if he'd waited he would have lost 2 seconds.

No offense, but before posting next time go and learn some proper English. If for you being alongside Sutil means "into the path of Sutil", than you've got a serious language or spatial problem.

And FYI it doesn't take 2 seconds for a car traveling at 80 kph to advance 5 meters. :rolleyes:
10th September 2008, 10:41
ioan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mickey T

i would listen to it, but without placing any strength behind it. i would pay little attention to the opinion of M Schumacher for the same reason and, you may have noticed, i didn't give any particular credibility to R Schumacher's comment either, because he is in the pay of Mercedes-Benz.

lauda i give credence to, because he's won championships for both teams. i wouldn't mind hearing from, say, webber or rubens on the subject. or even brundle, because i never heard his opinion.

What about Trulli's and Wurz's opinions?
For me they are worth more than Lauda's (who didn't race a F1 car for 30 years and knows squat about using tarmac ran off areas), and none of them is on Ferrari's payroll.
10th September 2008, 10:43
ioan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tonieke

by giving Massa a penalty Fia showed he made a mistake...a penalty is a penalty...and when giving out penalties in these cases at previous races there was either a drive through and or time penalty..why this time just a fine ?

The FIA didn't give Massa penalty!
Take an honest advice, stop talking about things you don't know, it will make your opinions look way better. Just because Knockie and PP1 do it it doesn't mean it's the way to go. ;)
10th September 2008, 10:55
Tonieke

Quote:

Originally Posted by ioan

The FIA didn't give Massa penalty!
Take an honest advice, stop talking about things you don't know, it will make your opinions look way better. Just because Knockie and PP1 do it it doesn't mean it's the way to go. ;)

Now you got me confused...If there was no penalty...what was the fine for than ?
10th September 2008, 10:59
ioan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tonieke

Now you got me confused...If there was no penalty...what was the fine for than ?

The fine was for the team, not for the driver! Feeling any better now?! ;)

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