2008 Neste Oil Rally Finland - official thread

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3rd August 2008, 16:53
rp

Rally Finland crashes...

http://nettitv.mtv3.fi/maksuttomat/i...?139413#139413
3rd August 2008, 16:53
MikeD

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonkka

Go here:
http://forums.motorsport.com/forums/...splay.php?f=94

And stay there.

Don't tell me where to go!!!

I was just refering to how things can change even though most take certain results for granted.
3rd August 2008, 16:53
N.O.T

Quote:

Originally Posted by kleisj

Because in the old days (stone age as you say) you would have 7-10 drivers all capable of winning when they had the chance. Ok with different machinery but all were heavy names. Some of them were at the end of their career some of them at the start. But it was different. When Auriol got the win Juha was second. Would you compare him with Hirvonen??
Take any 3 years you want from the stone age and tell me how many different winners you would have in 3 championships and how many in the last 3....?
And something else in the stone age the rallies were much more spectacular...
In the modern days you miss this excitement.

By numbers Loeb is the greatest of all times. He is a driving genius compared to the rest. Is he? For sure is great. No doubt about that. But he had too much positive parameters helping him up to now to his WRC career. A team and a car which was best suited to him. He never changed team and never experienced any serious difficulties with his car. I have nothing against him on the contrary I truly admire him for his achievements. But he is in an era where the competition is much more inferior and much more less. Simple as that.
With Gronholm for sure we watched some great battles, but it was just between them two...!

In the stone age you didn't know the top 3 spots before the beginning of the rally. And with absence of super rally someone made a mistake he was out of the event.

For you is evolution for me is just not interesting as it was.
Ask people what they would prefer to watch , the 2006 season on DVD or the 2001 or 1999, or 1995 season?

well Loeb actually won rallies and titles when Solberg, Burns, sainz, makinen, Colin, Martin, Auriol and others were still in the game....

as for the car and team i partially agree....Gronholm also had peugeot bending over for him and he did nothing in the 307 a car which was basically build around him since he was the only consistent driver in the team by the time. I think the result wouldn't be any different in Loeb was in Ford...

As for the competition capable of winning an event were 2-3 drivers max on normal rounds and then they were the tarmac experts (the fact that you had 5-7 holy ancient dinosaurs competing doesn;t mean they could also win)...same as today where you have also 3 drivers capable and on tarmac you have sordo as well....the only thing that i miss from wrc is a strong 3rd factory team nothing more.
3rd August 2008, 16:58
jonkka

Unfortunately only in Finnish (again):
http://www.hs.fi/urheilu/artikkeli/L.../1135238319501

I let my compatriots to translate. We might hear more of this...
3rd August 2008, 17:05
N.O.T

Quote:

Originally Posted by janvanvurpa

Yes evolution. But ever since the subset of GpA which allows "World Rally Cars" to be built under much MUCH greater freedom, the cars, from shell to suspension strength, suspension TRAVEL!!! to gearboxes reliability---directly tied to REMOVING from the DRIVER the job of selecting gears---, to engine and especially turbocharger lifespan, the CARS are HUGELY, BIG GIANT STEPS improved over the early 90s Group A cars.

They are essentially purpose built competition cars in EVERY detail now, then they were BASED ON production body shells and with the limitations that comes with that.
Suspension was max about 200mm travel... now at least 275, maybe 300mm
suspension had to be attached to the body within +-15mm. No funny fenders if they weren't made in series for 5000 road cars,

I want to ask when people have such obvious contempt for the achievements of people who they may have never seen, and it goes without saying, doing things that the complainer has never been close to doing:
Have you EVER seen the early 90s ccars driven by WRC drivers?
Ever [b][i]touched any parts, spent an hour going through the Homologation papers seeing what the parts that make up the car are like?

WAAAAAAAAaaaay back then the stuff was "pretty damn good" and crazy expensive.........Today the CARS are near perfect (hence the less than 2.5% difference in the speed between the amazing Loeb and the depressed, seemingly washed up hang dog Petter Solhberg only 2.5%) and to use the words of SEVERAL men who, unlike you, actually have driven both ;
"The cars are almost perfect--they just about drive themselves now..."

Sainz, McRae, Mäkinen all have said this about the modern World Rally Cars.
And they might possibly know just a bit more than a mere nameless fan.

Thus it was harder then beating 12-15-20 near equal cars than just beating 2.

I don't say that the rallymen of the stone age were worse than today or the opposite i just say that Loeb is something special and the greatest of them all or at least as great as the legends of the sport....and i really cannot see why there is such a big need to diminish his achievements....

Rallying of the past-now and forever will be about driver skill.....no matter how good erfect and strong the car is.....put an ape in a top track car and he will be a top contender put an ape in a top rally car and he will be ridiculed (there are many examples of that)...thats why in rallying is far easier to conclude in the best of all times.
3rd August 2008, 17:46
MJW

Just had a chance to look at the results - well done to Guy Wilks in an N3 Honda, 18th overall and beat all the JWRC regulars. I hope he gets his chance in a WRC car. I admit that I did not rate him a few years ago but now he is proving me wrong. I wonder where he would be if he had Matt Wilson's chances?
3rd August 2008, 17:47
jparker

Quote:

Originally Posted by N.O.T

Why was more difficult to win in the old days ???

Why? Because the old rally cars were a lot more demanding, that's why.
If WRC continues this way, your "evolution" may end up with cars that don't require drivers at all.
3rd August 2008, 18:05
Torsen

Quote:

Originally Posted by jparker

Why? Because the old rally cars were a lot more demanding, that's why.
If WRC continues this way, your "evolution" may end up with cars that don't require drivers at all.

yes the modern WRC car is SO much easier to drive... tell that to Gigi, PG, and everyone else who crashed out while driving a TON slower than the top two drivers... its a car that is vastly superior to the slow side ways rear wheel drive cars of old...

being skillful in a slow and sideways manner doesn't impress anyone... stage times do impress me... and Loeb is owning...

i got an idea... lets design a car that is so complicated to drive it requires a driver to play a chess game while turning the wheel! that way we'll really know who is the best driver... :rolleyes:
3rd August 2008, 18:26
janneppi

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonkka

Unfortunately only in Finnish (again):
http://www.hs.fi/urheilu/artikkeli/L.../1135238319501

I let my compatriots to translate. We might hear more of this...

I read about the 2000 eur speeding fine Loeb got today from the rally HQ notice board but didn't think there was anything more to it.
3rd August 2008, 18:26
ste898

Quote:

Originally Posted by N.O.T

ok go back to the stone age then.....maybe in few years you will discover fire.

Why was more difficult to win in the old days ???

Loeb gave 100% to win in Finland and the ancient holy dinosaurs of rallying also gave 100% to win their battles as well...cannot see why was easier to win now from then? yes rallies were 100000 milles longer but also the final differences were count in years not seconds. As for the better competition hardly in the old days we had more than 2 championship contenders....

Its called evolution

NOT if you cannot understand how it so so much easier to win these events now then you have a serious problem!!!!!

Events in 2000's 17-25 stages!!! Easy cars to drive (just about drive themselves)

Events in 80's and 90's anywhere between 35-55 stages 5 days and nights
no power steering and driver aids etc etc etc!!!!!!1

Get a grip man.....

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