Silly Season 2022

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Originally Posted by mknight

Driver-type wise Suninen would fit to pair up with Sordo.

In a way it would be quite ridiculous if Suninen leaves MSport after being dissatisfied with the car and team effort and takes Breens spot in Hyundai who goes to MSport cause he doesn't get enough chances at Hyundai.

Anyway that's for next year. Short term the question is how satisfied (and fast) Suninen will be with the Hyundai Rally2 car.

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Yep... a Sordo-Suninen duo is interesting in terms of profile but the issue is that, even without talking about Solberg, other available drivers have the profile to share a car with Sordo, especially Mikkelsen.
And Suninen has never proven to be consistent in a WRC car (except maybe end-2020) and the adaptation to the Hyundai car seems not that simple so it’s a bet for both side.

But clearly a good drive in Spain would be a good thing for him if Hyundai’s bosses are not totally blind about Solberg.

Mikkelsen won't go to Hyundai as long as Adamo is there, cause Adamo doesn't trust him. (his own words after Mikkelsen was fastest Hyundai and got 3rd place in Turkey 2019).

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Originally Posted by mknight

Mikkelsen won't go to Hyundai as long as Adamo is there, cause Adamo doesn't trust him. (his own words after Mikkelsen was fastest Hyundai and got 3rd place in Turkey 2019).

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I’m not sure Adamo still has the momentum with Hyundai HQ with such an awful season after a 2020 season which was already not good enough (when you hire the incumbent world driver champion, it is not to clinch a miraculous manufacturer title). Being out, even from a strictly mathematical point of view, of the WDC 2 events before the end of the season and being out of the manufacturer title one round before the end (we can assume Toyota will clinch it in Spain) is clearly a massive humiliation for Hyundai with a Neuville-Tanak duo + the shared third car strategy.
All the more than the Hyundai drivers were not that bad this season.

I would be at least surprised he is still the only decider for the main decisions (not to say he might be fired by the end of the year) and, if he is still here, I think he will have a lot of pressure for 2022 so he might have to choose the best driver available and not the driver he wants.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FA17X9kW...pg&name=medium

Unless it's some confusion then the real news is the last sentence.
But I am not quite sure tbh, cause it would be quite weird to sign anyone bar Breen (and hypothetical Evans or Rovanpera) for two year deal.

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Originally Posted by mknight

Unless it's some confusion then the real news is the last sentence.
But I am not quite sure tbh, cause it would be quite weird to sign anyone bar Breen (and hypothetical Evans or Rovanpera) for two year deal.

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I would think the sentence is not well written («*he will be hired as 1 of the 3 drivers and his contract is for 2 seasons*») more than saying «*3 drivers will be hired for the next 2 seasons*»
Yes, the market is not really open with Tanak and Neuville with Multi-year contract and probably the same for Evans and Rovanpera in Toyota but, as you say, no real interest in signing all drivers in multi-year deals (maybe Fourmaux if they really believe in his potential but it is not that simple if he partially pays to drive)

With all the changes in the 2022 hybrid cars it may be seen that it will be too difficult to get good results with just part-time drives.

Most people accept Fourmaux will be full-time due to his Red Bull and FFSA support, so now it depends if Greensmith has the money to go again.

M-sport said that they run 4-5 cars next year, i assume Greensmith is in the 4th car.

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Originally Posted by skarderud

M-sport said that they run 4-5 cars next year, i assume Greensmith is in the 4th car.

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Where have they said that? I only saw they hope to have 3 works cars and that there is customer interest but nothing concrete.

Fourmaux and Breen are pretty much confirmed as 2 full season drivers. Greensmith will be there (still tba if he is full season or not). But, anyway, that is the trio for RMC. If a 4th Puma can be added, remains to be seen.

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Originally Posted by seb_sh

Where have they said that? I only saw they hope to have 3 works cars and that there is customer interest but nothing concrete.

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Some intervju with dirthfish.
3 Main cars, 1-2 cars for paydrivers. Greensmith has to be in the paydriver team.

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Originally Posted by skarderud

Some intervju with dirthfish.
3 Main cars, 1-2 cars for paydrivers. Greensmith has to be in the paydriver team.

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I would say that’s just heavy interpretation of the interview

BTW I don't think Adamo is that crazy to give Solberg a seat

https://i.ibb.co/18sYxqD/Zrzut-ekran...-04-162115.jpg

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Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC

Most people accept Fourmaux will be full-time due to his Red Bull and FFSA support, so now it depends if Greensmith has the money to go again.

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Msport are a joke if/ when they confirm Greensmith in the 3rd car.

Oliver need same order from team boss as Petter got: Get to the finish line on every rally. You can win them later, now it is all about getting experience.
Malcolm was pretty clear, and that went well for Petter.

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Originally Posted by Portimao

BTW I don't think Adamo is that crazy to give Solberg a seat

https://i.ibb.co/18sYxqD/Zrzut-ekran...-04-162115.jpg

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Phil Mills had a sit-down segment with Howard Davies (ex Gwyndaf Evans co driver) and said he and Peter will be the gravel crew for Oliver pandemic allowing. So, he will get some help.

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Originally Posted by Portimao

BTW I don't think Adamo is that crazy to give Solberg a seat

https://i.ibb.co/18sYxqD/Zrzut-ekran...-04-162115.jpg

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So it seems, but taking a second look, there are many ways of polishing the juwel of Norweigan driver. He has some areas to improve. One is maybe making more exact pace notes.

He will for sure be a winner. Every driver needs to crash out to learn.

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Originally Posted by Sulland

Oliver need same order from team boss as Petter got: Get to the finish line on every rally. You can win them later, now it is all about getting experience.
Malcolm was pretty clear, and that went well for Petter.

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This is actually really interesting comparison.

Petter started under Malcolm which was like this. Then after 1 year he unexpectedly left to Subaru, seemingly to charge for results as soon as possible. What followed were almost 2 years with lots of crashes before he got somewhat stable, but he never got really stable (which cost him 2004 title and almost 2003 one (Corsica)).

Oliver could continue with Skoda in 2021 and go for WRC2 title like Kalle did + for example ERC. Instead he went immediatelly to Hyundai with a WRC starts promise and what follows is a string of crashes.

There are two real dangers in short term:
- stopped driver development
- his near future is completely based on Adamo being his fan. If Adamo gets kicked he might find it hard to get a decent drive for a while.

Oliver's father will be the end of his career if he continues to involve himself as deeply as he does now.

He needs to let Oliver develop a bit himself.

Personally, technically and mentally

And every driver needs a good car and a team that listens to what the driver needs, there's no coincidence there was two wrecked i20's last week i think...

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Originally Posted by rallyfiend

Oliver's father will be the end of his career if he continues to involve himself as deeply as he does now.

He needs to let Oliver develop a bit himself.

Personally, technically and mentally

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agree 100%
that is my impression too, i have also wrote via pm with some members here,after i was for half a day at his Acropolis pre test.

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Originally Posted by Rallyper

So it seems, but taking a second look, there are many ways of polishing the juwel of Norweigan driver. He has some areas to improve. One is maybe making more exact pace notes.

He will for sure be a winner. Every driver needs to crash out to learn.

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I wonder what makes anyone think he's a juwel or even a potential winner, except his last name.

So far he has shown neither the speed nor the reliability.

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Originally Posted by skarderud

M-sport said that they run 4-5 cars next year, i assume Greensmith is in the 4th car.

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Extra cars later in the year maybe (if the Puma proves to be good) but I dont see anyone other than Greensmith paying for one from the start of 2022.

And if M-Sport pay a contract for Breen then I dont see them being able to afford to pay for another driver too.

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Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC

And if M-Sport pay a contract for Breen then I dont see them being able to afford to pay for another driver too.

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Breen won't be on that high a salary and Malcolm was very keen to tell us he wanted a top 4 driver, which would've cost millions...

Msport could run Breen, Mikkelsen and Fourmaux for less than it would've cost to sign one of Tanak, Evans or Neuville etc. At this rate Mikkelsen or another decent driver would drive for pennies to get another crack at a full wrc season, but if Malcolm doesn't believe in Andreas (which seems the case), I guess he will just take the money instead from a vastly inferior Greensmith. Even Mikkelsen has mentioned he has a little bit of money, if needed to help save his wrc career....

Gus retaining a seat in any sort of works Fiesta isn't 'instead' of anyone else. Two other seats exist BECAUSE of him, not in spite of him.

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Originally Posted by denkimi

I wonder what makes anyone think he's a juwel or even a potential winner, except his last name.

So far he has shown neither the speed nor the reliability.

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The stats before Hyundai maybe?
Always had a bad feeling about this team from things i've heard from many now, some things that would shock you...
https://www.ewrc-results.com/profile...liver-solberg/

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Originally Posted by ouvreur

Gus retaining a seat in any sort of works Fiesta isn't 'instead' of anyone else. Two other seats exist BECAUSE of him, not in spite of him.

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As er88 says unless Malcolm Wilson lied about having money for paying top driver (5-8 mil EURO), he could afford all 3 of Breen, Lappi and Mikkelsen for that (next best available drivers).

Sure he might not want to use the money on other drivers. Which then brings us back to the point of MSport being a profit-making business and not a team doing everything for win. Exactly like Suninen just said. That by itself is fine, what is then not fine is the press-releases "pretending" they are doing everything to win. (Recall the recent pre-Greece news saying how Greensmith has shown he "deserves" WRC seat and is aiming to win a stage in Greece.)

What boggles me a bit is Ford position in this. By MSports words Ford is now using lot of money for developing the Puma and then they should be happy with 3rd rate drivers using it?

Another thing is MSports business itself. It is on the start of the model life they have likely the best chance to "sell" the car to other customers (and talents with money, like Suninen before or Gryazin). At this point if they only have Breen to do the promotion it's very risky business. I recently compared it with Citroen 2017 position with one good (but not epic) driver and 2 very inexperienced ones with no results. Add to that that Breen has very little experience on most of the rallies.

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Originally Posted by SubaruNorway

The stats before Hyundai maybe?
Always had a bad feeling about this team from things i've heard from many now, some things that would shock you...
https://www.ewrc-results.com/profile...liver-solberg/

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(Almost) year ago when it was announced Solberg goes to Hyundai I was very skeptical here about it (the post it still here).

Because of the way they threated their drivers recently, most notably Huttunen who basically got his career destroyed by Hyundai and because of the lack of performance of the I20 R5. Since then Huttunen has been threated even worse and the new car is mediocre at best.

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Originally Posted by mknight

As er88 says unless Malcolm Wilson lied about having money for paying top driver (5-8 mil EURO), he could afford all 3 of Breen, Lappi and Mikkelsen for that (next best available drivers).

Sure he might not want to use the money on other drivers. Which then brings us back to the point of MSport being a profit-making business and not a team doing everything for win. Exactly like Suninen just said. That by itself is fine, what is then not fine is the press-releases "pretending" they are doing everything to win. (Recall the recent pre-Greece news saying how Greensmith has shown he "deserves" WRC seat and is aiming to win a stage in Greece.)

What boggles me a bit is Ford position in this. By MSports words Ford is now using lot of money for developing the Puma and then they should be happy with 3rd rate drivers using it?

Another thing is MSports business itself. It is on the start of the model life they have likely the best chance to "sell" the car to other customers (and talents with money, like Suninen before or Gryazin). At this point if they only have Breen to do the promotion it's very risky business. I recently compared it with Citroen 2017 position with one good (but not epic) driver and 2 very inexperienced ones with no results. Add to that that Breen has very little experience on most of the rallies.

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Also strange that M-sport are not investing heavily in their Rally 2 car, should be their most selling car in their range looking at national/ ERC series but this is not the case, and can`t blame customers for not buying as it seems to be behind the competitors especially on gravel.

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Originally Posted by SubaruNorway

Always had a bad feeling about this team from things i've heard from many now, some things that would shock you...

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Shock us please.

id like to know too

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Originally Posted by Rallyper

So it seems, but taking a second look, there are many ways of polishing the juwel of Norweigan driver. He has some areas to improve. One is maybe making more exact pace notes.

He will for sure be a winner. Every driver needs to crash out to learn.

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Were any of the French WRC drivers for the last thirty years crash-prone? In the English speaking world Colin McRae may have set a bad example.

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Originally Posted by AMSS

Also strange that M-sport are not investing heavily in their Rally 2 car, should be their most selling car in their range looking at national/ ERC series but this is not the case, and can`t blame customers for not buying as it seems to be behind the competitors especially on gravel.

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Agree, but I think it's a bit about timing as well.

When the Rally2 upgrade was introduced in mid 2019 they just spend a lot of money on Ogier and his 2018 title, without getting more from Ford. So maybe little funds and people for Rally2 development.
Then early on from 2020 COVID likely destroyed all finances and development as well as sales. Come to 2021 and Puma has priority.

Anyway indirectly you can say that MSports decline is caused by Skodas (and VWs) success, cause they took the biggest market (R5/Rally2), without "using" that money for WRC (even though Skoda was interested pre-2019). The main positive thing about that might be that they used it to develop quite a few new talents (Lappi, Rovanpera and partly O. Solberg).

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Originally Posted by Gregor-y

Were any of the French WRC drivers for the last thirty years crash-prone? In the English speaking world Colin McRae may have set a bad example.

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Duval if you count him as "French", Delecour (with Lancer WRC, might have been the car).

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Originally Posted by mknight

Anyway indirectly you can say that MSports decline is caused by Skodas (and VWs) success, cause they took the biggest market (R5/Rally2), without "using" that money for WRC (even though Skoda was interested pre-2019). The main positive thing about that might be that they used it to develop quite a few new talents (Lappi, Rovanpera and partly O. Solberg).

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AFAIK Škoda Motorsport runs on its own budget just like M-Sport does. Most of the money they spend on development come from the Rally 2 business.

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Originally Posted by SubaruNorway

The stats before Hyundai maybe?
Always had a bad feeling about this team from things i've heard from many now, some things that would shock you...
https://www.ewrc-results.com/profile...liver-solberg/

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Show me 5 results out of his entire career that made you think: this kid should be in a wrc car, he will be a future champion.

Just 5.

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Originally Posted by denkimi

I wonder what makes anyone think he's a juwel or even a potential winner, except his last name.

So far he has shown neither the speed nor the reliability.

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Then you´re totally blind. He already won a lot. But also crashing a lot. Why? Just tell me, you all experts, because it´s hard to point at any certain reason. There are a few lessons learn, yes.

why you guys so b.utthurt about Solberg having his chances?
He isn't asking a penny from you, me, us..

Yes, he has crashed this season maybe a bit too much..
but don't forget that he has a lot of experience with many different cars(i20 WRC, VW, Fabia, i20(old&new) R5s, powerful RX cars, ARA Subaru Impreza etc)

He isn't in the team for nothing..

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Originally Posted by denkimi

Show me 5 results out of his entire career that made you think: this kid should be in a wrc car, he will be a future champion.

Just 5.

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I saw it already back in the days of filming him in crosskarts, now stop being so damn jealous and just let him drive.
I think he showed quite easy he has something to do in a WRC in Artic but you can't expect everything to go on rails this early.

I’m with you guys, let the kid do his thing. I agree he should probably be in a 4th car similar to Katsuta, but he can drive. Sordo/Suninen would be a good 3rd car option next year, but this lad just needs experience, and it might as well be in a top level car.