Are these Rally3 cars cost-capped like the R5 (and I presume Rally2)?
Also specific parts have these cost limits?
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Are these Rally3 cars cost-capped like the R5 (and I presume Rally2)?
Also specific parts have these cost limits?
I think they are.
Nil Solans in Sardinia
https://twitter.com/gianluca_sanna_/...268756996?s=21
In the European Rally Championship, the ERC Junior class will be reserved for drivers entered with Rally3 cars, with the objective to reduce season costs and create a more accessible pathway for young drivers coming from two-wheel drive categories. In order to ease this pathway, the FIA ERC promoter will offer attractive prizes for both the ERC3 and ERC Junior Champions.
Let's start :)
Now that Rally3 have been awarded a kickstart from ERC next season.
How many cars will we see competing in the first rally in May?
Will we see more brands than Ford in 2021 for the new class?
I heard the first 20 cars are reserved to ERC crews and ready to delivered in month of March.
Ford RS Owners Club:
Imagine a rally car that’s road legal !
If a 4WD Ford Fiesta R3 was in the pipeline, would you be interested in purchasing ?
We would like to take the opportunity to thank M-Sport for talking with us and asking the RSOC to gain insights from its members about a potential future release.
So why could Toyota not use the GR Yaris as the starting point for a Rally3 project?
Ford uses a 3 cyl 1500, and Toypta has a 1600 3 cyl engine.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyo...ngine#G16E-GTS
They don't have unlimited capacities. You need dozens of people not working on something else and around two years of hard work to get a good a car going.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sulland
Maybe, but they have used many manhours on the GR Yaris, testing it. Not specifically for rally, but instead of starting from scratch.
Think of the PR the car will get. You can actually with a full rally-kit by GR, take it into the forrest!
Of course not as a Rally3, but more a cupcar.
But Toyota is a big organisation, they should be able to make a Rally3 car quite fast, and have it ready for sale in November 2021.
Sulland, try to think real a little bit. Things don't just appear. There is a hell of work and that work must be done by someone. Maybe Toyota will come with Rally3 car but for sure they can't work on everything in the same time (maybe better to say they can but in that case the product would be rubbish).
I am trying to. Toyota has its WRC team moving into a new HQ in FinlandQuote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
Mäkinen taking back his farm. Not quite clear yet what TMR will have in the future, if any.
But Toyota also have the German team of 300+ people. Toyota pulled out of LMP1 in WEC, that was their pri 1 job. So they could help getting the Rally3 program up to speed, maybe with Tommi in a role.
Others that did not make it in the R5 competition, Mistsubishi and Proton could downgrade them to Rally3, and giving Ford some competition!
LMP1 is transitioning into Hypercar class. Toyota is developing that. I see no changes in there.
Proton and Mitsubishi aren`t factory supported projects if i remember correctly. Or if they are, less than M-Sport and Ford. Re-developing a R5 into R3 takes a load of money....which isn`t easy to find.
Toyota/TGR Germany is now running that Rally project (yes the same one which Tommi was leading)Quote:
Originally Posted by Sulland
Factory will stay in Jyväskylä because of testing possibilities, but HQ is in Cologne, Germany.
Even if you have hundreds of people dedicated to rally it means you need to take away number of them from WRC project and relocate them to Rally3. In the end it means you sacrifice something you could add to WRC and that may cost you the title because your opponents don't sleep but work as hard as they can. Especially the number of leading people in the development (technical managers, team leaders) is very limited. Such people are of rare qualities (and also huge price) and you don't have hundreds of them, not even dozens. Nobody does. And without them you develop a crappy car.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sulland
So if the cost of 2 x Rally2 rallies equals cost of 6 x Rally3 rallies in ERC, the Rally3 rental cost is 1/3 of the rent of a Rally2 car.
That is quite a difference, and should make the intro of Rally3 cars much easier.
And if The rally3 class gets big, and gets good talented drivers, it will fill its pupose as a good gapfiller, amd introclass to 4wd!
btw a variety of Yaris GR versions are popping up as private projects. that's for Japan championship, not much info, it appears to be 3 cylinder, 1600cc, 260bhp, AWD
https://www.tuttipazziperilmotorspor...uEUiFxyEJnwBZ0
I don't think it will be that cheap. I think 1/3 of Rally2 budget will get you a Rally4 rather than a Rally3Quote:
Originally Posted by Sulland
Ok, so a good guesstimate will be that Rally3 is somewhere btw 40 and 50% of the cost of a Rally2 season in ERC, both with 6 rallies?
We will know after the first couple of rallies, since I am guessing that M-Sport Pol will rent out Rally 3 Fiestas.
Sulland, it's not one sided game of costs. As you get higher in the overal standings you also get to better sponsorship deals because sponsors simply want to be exposed. Therefore you can't simply take running cost of a Rally2 car and compare it with running costs of Rally3 car because for both of them you are most likely unable to secure the same sponsorship deals.
Probably true Mirek.
But I am just trying to understand the figures on "ish" running costs for the two 4wd classes. The price you as a driver would have to pay to drive a full ERC series.
With Rally4 prices from 70k, the 100k for a Rally3 seems like a good deal.
Do anyone know more on the 4wd system on Rally3 compared to the Rally2 cars?Quote:
Originally Posted by Sulland
Is it simpler than on the Rally2 ?
It can not be any simpler.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sulland
To your question - it's basically the same thing.
Yes, just components are smaller.
Next week Msport organizes drive days with their new Rally3 so more details should be known.
Is this by invitation only, have any info gotten out on this happening?Quote:
Originally Posted by br21
yes, sure, especially nowdays during pandemic times all is by invitation, etc
I would not expect many details to be shown, but maybe drivers' comments will be useful.
I am guessing Ken Torn, and others that har ordered cars for ERC use will be first in line, together with the ones used for testing the car before.
Maybe also som key buyers/teams from around the world that have said they would like to give rally3 a go in national series.
I think MSport will sell more than they thought of this one in 2021.
I know someone who will be there, so I will let you know:)
It could be a trick of the camera angles but that looks a lot more exciting than the idea of a 4WD car with the same power and torque but more weight than a Rally4 car suggests. I’m looking forward to seeing some of these compete
Sounds positiv!
From Rallye-Magazine.de
In german: https://www.rallye-magazin.de/int/ar...ensport-45976/
Text;
Jari-Matti Latvala has passed his baptism of fire as the new Toyota team boss. In Monte Carlo, Sebastien Ogier and Elfyn Evans gave their new boss a double victory at the start. "A great result to start the season," said the Finn happily.
But from now on Latvala is not only responsible for continuing the successful work of his predecessor Tommi Mäkinen in the World Rally Championship, as an enthusiastic rally driver and owner of a historic Toyota Celica, he also wants to ensure that the brand also celebrates successes in other classes in the future . The focus is on the newly created Rally3 category.
"The way I see it, the new Rally3 seems to be the more interesting category than the Rally2 and could build on the success of the near-series Group N," Latvala told Motorsport aktuell.
So far, only M-Sport has presented a corresponding model. The 99,999 euros (plus VAT) Ford Fiesta Rally3 is powered by a 1.5 liter turbo three-cylinder with 215 hp and 400 Nm torque, which comes from the Fiesta ST road vehicle. The power is portioned by a sequential five-speed gearbox. With these ingredients, the 1,210 kilo all-wheel drive accelerates to 100 km / h in five seconds.
After the WRC of Rally3?
Latvala has also taken a closer look at the Fiesta Rally3 and will be watching carefully how M-Sport's order books fill up. “With the GR Yaris, Toyota has the perfect basis for a high-performance customer sport model,” says Latvala, who can well imagine being active in this category as well. “But right now we have to concentrate on developing the 2022 World Rally Car with hybrid. But we still have an eye on customer racing. Either way, something could happen by 2023. "
Jon Armstrong was VERY positive about the Fiesta Rally3.
https://twitter.com/msportpoland/sta...995649538?s=20
Will we get some test videos from Poland?
My colleague is working for M-Sport Poland within these 3 days, so probably the will published something.
Yes, there was video crew, but don't expect anything more than what you saw before. Gravel stage was same like on Kajetanowicz video from few day ago, tarmac section was not that special and customers drove, so really nobody was pushing hard.