So you don't want kids to think "f... yeah, that's cool" about the rally anymore? You don't want them to get enthusiastic? Actually I will now show this video to my sons (8 and 11 years old) with whom I was spectating Monte for three days and tell them not to try this on open road after they get driving licenses. At least not with my car and not until they are professional rally drivers. I am sure their enthusiasm about rally won't decrease.Quote:
Originally Posted by AnttiK7
Yes I want kids to be enthusiastic, but about actual rallying on the stages. Not about their heroes showing off on public roads.Quote:
Originally Posted by tpt010
I do not usually type anything here, just follow this forum everyday. But this topic has already crossed all boundaries. Send complaints to FIA for such a thing? Why do you have to do such things? It's just sick.
Quite an interesting social experiment this thread. The amount of people who have come out of the woodwork to create accounts and comment is pretty staggering. One of the things I dislike most about society these days is the professionally outraged. What's also interesting is how opinion seemingly only falls in the extremes on either side. Or maybe it's just those people who shout the loudest.
I know I am a bit late to the party.
Was what Ott did in that clip dangerous? NO.
Could it appear dangerous to the general public? Yes.
Was it a good thing to do? No.
What will happen now? Because of how the incident has been blown up by some countries media (i'm looking at you, Finland), the person responsible for the FIA Road Safety program will show the clip to all the drivers and say: "don't do that anymore, ok". There will NEVER be any reprimand or penalty for it, because Toyota would protest heavily. Maximum thing sending letters to FIA and maybe the organizers could achieve is Ott publishing a formal apology in the WRC.com website (altough that would need hundreds of letters like Antti's).
I tried to search for news stories about this in Finnish media but couldn't find anythingQuote:
Originally Posted by onemanband
I must apologize. I remember first reading about this in a Finnish news story (not being Finnish myself). As I can't find the link myself then let's say I remembered wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by AnttiL
Altough this does not mean I think the incident hasn't been blown up by the rally discussion boards (I just assumed the story began from Finnish media)
I think EstWRC said Estonian media picked it up, but not before being posted here. Also, I have the impression Tänak is right now more of a celebrity in Estonia than Latvala is in Finland.Quote:
Originally Posted by onemanband
Possibly. Doesn't really matter. Replace the word Finland with the word Estonia in my original post then if you like.Quote:
Originally Posted by AnttiL
This forum had turned to ratsh*t with the F1 ladyboys trying to take over.
Reporting top drivers to the FIA for sliding at snales pace...WTF is wrong with you?!
Rallying is not for you mate. Time to cross over to the F1 forum and read all about the generic robots and that imbecile world champion of their’s and why thinks he’s mad because he braided his hair, and stayed up past midnight once and had 2 beers!
And Jackie Stewart would tell you to man the f*ck up ad rallying is a big boys game!
This thread has become a David Lynch movie.
Either way you can play name 5 famous (insert Finn or Estonian) that aren’t motor sport professionals.😉Quote:
Originally Posted by onemanband
Holy crap, I just looked the video and the biggest threat to drivers and human life is user AnttiK7 who is spending FIA officials time that can be otherwise used to improve road safety, spectator safety, and competitors safety. Please, get a life. Or do you want to take repsonibility of next unfortunate event to yourself.. you can always think that this might have been avoided if the officald would have had more time to tackle with real problems, not with your letter.
Please, consider this before senidng something to somewhere, always.
If you really want to see really scary situation, then for me it was the start of SS9 when Breen was going to start control, quite fast, very narrowly parked cars. When I drive like this, I am always afraid of someone opening the door and jumping out from the car without looking.
Anyway, case closed for me do not touch s..t, it tends to stink afterwards ;)
Same thing with someone jumping out of the car could have happened there, if it wasn't for that i wouldn't be that bothered about it.
Kids for instance are more unpredictable than sheep...
The thing I find most interesting is that this is actually a fight within all of motorsports. It's a deep philosophical divide between people who fundamentally agree with the AnttiK7s of the world and those who side with the Mr C1412s. Either you actually believe that safety is the number 1 priority and all sporting considerations are slaves to safety, or you believe that motorsport is inherently dangerous and that putting safety ahead of the spectacle is misguided and destructive to the sport.
You can't say "The most important thing is safety" and support Tanak's unnecessary showboating. I know which one I would go with.
About legality of sliding car on ice - if you read letter of law, then i am sure that in most countries deliberately driving in a way which leads to loss of traction, is illegal. Now how this law is enforced is all different matter. If car slides a little on ice, then i am sure that in most cases cops look the other way. There is concept - are people for law or law for people? That mean that obeying law blindly is dumb. Dumb laws should be abolished and even smart laws should be enforced smartly. You dont have to punish someone with maximum severity. Actually, quite often officials look deliberately the other way - untile someone like AnttiK starts yelling - then they have no choice but to act somehow. For example, hereduring winter times there are many unofficial ice-tracks where anyone can go and practice their skills or just have fun. Technically they are illegal, but police almost never does anything to punish anyone for driving there. But everybody (including police) knows about them, even newspaper sometimes write about them - but everybody silently accepts them, because there is nothing to win if police suddenly closes them down. But there is much to lose - people have no safe place to practice driving in slippery conditions and youngsters have nowhere (relatively) safe where to vent their adrenaline. Actually, to get drivers license here, as part of the training one has to also practice driving on slippery surface, but these officila training areas are very small and you cant practice there on practical speeds. So practicing on lake or sea is actually better, enables to do it at speeds closer to real life. But of course, if more holier-than-pope and easily offended people come here, then this will change. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBuN0LBeZ18
About this news article in Estonian newspaper - i looked it up, it was titled about as "Did Ott play on fans nerves?". First and most popular comment to this article suggested that reporter should get a life and not write such rubbish. This comment has got 448 upvotes and 8 downvotes. So i guess there is 8 people in Estonia thinking same way as AnttiK.
Yes, but going sideways don't make kids jump out unpredictably. It would have been 100% if he had gone through there at the same speed without the slide. And if he had done that we would not have been talking about it.Quote:
Originally Posted by SubaruNorway
I definitely agree about the philosophical divide, but I don't agree that what I have been writing about here falls under that. Anyway we are talking about a WRC driver driving on a public road under road traffic rules. The other people on the road are not taking part in the rally or necessarily even know what rallying is. And 99 times out of 100 you are gonna be danger more to other people than to yourself when you drive a WRC car in road traffic, simply because you are relatively speaking sitting in a tank compared to the safety of a normal road car. And my foremost concern with this case is public image anyway rather than safety, but for some reason that gets twisted here a lot to something else, that is not my opinion anymore.Quote:
Originally Posted by sonnybobiche
https://media.giphy.com/media/8LQlQhUdCu1fa/giphy.gifQuote:
Originally Posted by AnttiK7
My concern is that you just look into one "case". For example, Ogier did use the phone while driving, which is prohibited by laws, yet you still talk only and only about Tanak and setting an example about this little slide. You just look like you really don't care about others and talking about "danger" and "safety". There are tons of examples on youtube where most of the drivers do more dangerous manoeuvres than Tanak did right there.Quote:
Originally Posted by AnttiK7
In my opinion, you are not a real rally fan and just complaining about a pointless thing, yes he did slide there, I bet he was not the only one. The only dangerous thing in this corner was the parked car. Nothing more and please now, live with it.
As far as I understand you are working for Toyota's rally team so I'm not expecting a different reaction from you. But what I do expect are civilised messages and I would appreciate it if you would leave out any personal attacks. You don't know me at all and that type of postings on a public space I consider completely uncalled for. I am not attacking anyone personally on this thread, not even Mr. Tänak, something which I have already made clear a few times here. If you are happy to represent yourself working for Toyota here on this forum, then that type of postings are far worse publicity for them than the case we are talking about here.Quote:
Originally Posted by bluuford
same opinion with bluuford, have plenty of members here,without working for any manufacturer.Quote:
Originally Posted by AnttiK7
My problem wasn't the opinion, but the fact that it was littered with personal insults. That's all.Quote:
Originally Posted by dimviii
"It's better to live dangerously 34 years, than to be bored for 84 years"
?
Let me help you by compiling next complaint to FIA and everywhere else: "Toyota team representative is actively supporting breaking law, endangering innocent bystanders and threatening lives and wellbeing of everyone; as Toyota rally team is working under and can be considered subsidiary of Toyota Corp, it means that this is official position of Toyota, and thus OECD, UN, and national institutions should take steps to close Toyota dealerships and fine company for many billions of dollars for this outrageous behaviour. Also Toyota Corp has attacked me per personally by suggesting that i am wasting everybodys time and should get a life. By hinting that i do not have a life, i deduct that Toyota Corp has made threat or direct efforts to kill me and i am still alive only by chance."Quote:
Originally Posted by AnttiK7
Stackars pojke, you are not attacking anyboy with names but you are attacking our intelligence with outageous overblowing of a --what's the word in Angleski? une bagatelle or "making a mountain of a mole hill".Quote:
Originally Posted by AnttiK7
I spent 2 years in France racing.All over the whole country 4 to 6 races per month.. And I have been to Monte Carlo WRC..
NOBODY, rien, nada, niete, zilch, would give a flying f**k about this..
You heard the people there laughing..
Have you yourself seen how the French civilians drive? And how they drive when spectating?? THEY themselves are being silly as f**k any time there is snow---
There's an old saying there: "À Rome, fais comme les Romains. "
Next door to you they say
"С волками жить -- по волчьи выть"? Literally: When you're living with wolfs, you're howling like a wolf.
In Brazilian portuguese they also say: " Em Roma, (faça) como os romanos.", meaning exactly "When in Rome, do as the Romans do." That's a very common proverb.
The people there on the spot laugh and giggle.. You should too...
And stop insulting us with this hand-wringing.....makes me think you've turned into a Swede. Or worse an American!
1. To my understanding you are quoting Adelaide Siffert, sister of the late Jo Siffert, those are not my words.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tarmop
2. I would prefer if you wouldn't draw my videos or me as a person to this discussion at all. Those things have nothing to do with this issue we are talking about. If you want to go that way, in my videos you will find plenty of behavior I don't agree with but it's art, I don't have to personally stand behind every word or act.
3. I am a continuously evolving person like everyone and what I thought at one point in time doesn't mean that will always be the case for eternity. So questioning my views based on a video I did in 2010 seems like a pointless effort to me.
But ok, that's enough off-topic.
https://i.imgur.com/zbXUW.gifQuote:
Originally Posted by AnttiK7
All the more important that the professionals behave themselves.Quote:
Originally Posted by janvanvurpa
You should have started the whole thread with that...Quote:
Originally Posted by AnttiK7
https://youtu.be/5O-INzThaZ0?t=11 you should report some other drives too, seems like sideways is quite popular on road sections.
This sh*t just got real...Quote:
Originally Posted by hannes36
Shut it down. Shut it all down!
Thanks for the video! This actually only makes it look worse for Tänak unfortunately. Pay attention when Ogier gives some sideways action from 0:20 onwards on a road section. Tänak drives the same bit of road section from 1:20 onwards as if he is on a stage and not on a public road. Yeah I'm not approving of Ogier's driving either, but this just makes it look worse for Tänak. I guess a lot of that is that they want to desperately keep some temperature in the tires and brakes, but it doesn't make it ok. It's good to have more footage though, thanks!Quote:
Originally Posted by hannes36
How can you even sleep at night, in this awful world where everything needs repairing?
Lock this thread and let him make his letter to FIA if it grows his...ummm...whatever.
unbelievable, what a coincidence....just right after estonians have joined Toyota, kind of finnish team and performed very well on the first rally, a finnish guy pops out and starts to blame Tänak for making bad reputation for rally even though there is every bit of evidence the other drivers doing the same on the vid hannes posted...yet you still only talk about Tänak.
what a coincidence...
wow you really amaze me - somehow now Ogier and Mikkelsen going sideways makes it look worse for Tänak... thats some world class logic. You ***** human being just dont know when to quit, do you?Quote:
Originally Posted by AnttiK7
How does it make things worse for Tänakr ? Ogier is using phone on road section and drifting aswell :D. You should totally send another email..Quote:
Originally Posted by AnttiK7
a member here works for FIA.Quote:
Originally Posted by AnttiK7
search for user ''NOT'',he will help you.
I think he, N.O.T already said something hereQuote:
Originally Posted by dimviii