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Regs a pretty free in NZ rally champ now which has improved it no end as a spectacle.
Alex is not a particularly experienced driver especially with pace notes so once he gets more driving time and reliability with his car i expect he will become unmatched in the NZC as that car is super quick.
He had a pretty sweet Subaru with modded suspension before this car.
He is driving this weekend on the Coromandal rally, best of luck to him for a good result and a reliable run.
Strange... the vid I posted has no sound today. Is it only me? - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMAR9mBFN4c
Yep it's only you. Try the volume settings in the YouTube video. I find that sometimes it switches itself to mute.Quote:
Originally Posted by danon
Done.Quote:
Originally Posted by Burg
Did every possible thing.
Cleared all browsing data too.
Still no sound only on that vid, the rest is - OK.
Strange!!!
Edit: Downloaded the video with sound but no sound playing it on youtube.
Sound problem solved - surround system effect settings.
I like the fact that he said he wanted to create something that doesn't sound boring. This lad has his priorities right! I'm moving to New Zealand within the next 12 months so I will be in a position to see it in the metal :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Burg
Few people know that there are noise and emission limits for rally cars which every homologated car must follow. That's the main reason why any homologated car will never sound extra loud and exciting (thankfully some are still quite noisy).
The formula to sucess is simple: Fire, noise, sideways :)
http://revivalsportscars.com/wp-cont...s-sideways.jpg
1) The 1,6T format on the basis that it is production relevant is utter BS. Why should the engine be relevant when nothing of the rest of the car is? Have You ever seen the road car basis of a modern rallycar (read: Polo, DS3, Fiesta etc) with 4WD, adjustable McPherson coilovers on each end with HUGE travel, advanced aerodynamics, etc?Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
A WRC engine serves two purposes, and two only:
1) Propulsion (in generous amounts, i.e. 500hp+)
2) A sound that makes young boys scream in excitement, babys cry, and women throw their nickers at the cars. Its should be loud and sexy. (110db and high revs)
There have been great sounding NA engines, Turbod engines, Compressors engines, turbod AND compressord engines, fours, fives, sixes and eights, Vs, longditudals, and boxers.
The common referrers are high revs (i.e. cut out the restrictors, or at least make them big) and a generous sound system (not sound deadening system).
There is no problem making an engine/exhaust that has a road mode (for homologation) and a stage mode.
Spot on!Quote:
Originally Posted by Andre Oliveira
Simply because of marketing. 95% of buyers don't have a clue about any technical stuff and they do believe the marketing phrases. Times have changed and nowadays people aren't interested in how stuff works. You need to get away from looking on things by a sight of a rally geek. Guys like You make tiny percentage of car buyers. To understand why the car makers want what they want You need to look on things from their point of view. Fact is that it is the car makers and always will be who have the biggest word in this game. This will not change because You or me want something else.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lundefaret
There is a valid law which sets the noise and pollution limits for the simple reason that rallying takes place on public roads. And it's not about road sections. The stages pass through villages and towns as well. Especially in the central Europe it is impossible to make the stage without going through a populated areas. As such rallying is fully dependent on tollerance of the non-rally majority. I can imagine You don't face problems with that in Norway but please take into account that it is very very real problem in heavily populated European mainland. It's nothing special when the stage is not allowed to pass somewhere because some locals don't want that. They have various reasons. They think it's noisy, dangerous, they don't like having spectators in front of their house, don't want the road to be closed or whatever. To play on someone else's playground You need to find compromise. There's no other way.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lundefaret
Yes, of course but what have You tried to say by that?Quote:
Originally Posted by Lundefaret
As I already said. It's not about road sections. Stages pass through populated areas as well. You can't expect little babies, elderly women or nature-lowing people to understand why rally needs more noise exactly in front of their house on Sunday morning. It's similar like when a techno party comes to Your place. It's something You won't like and understand and it will most likely make You mad. Take into account that there is a lot of poeple who think about rallying in the same way.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lundefaret
The Kelsey MC2 is road legal and has passed noise tests, not sure how, but it did. Although it may not be what car marketers want, the fans love it. And surely that has to count for something.
Don't get me wrong, I personally do agree with You.
You are forgetting one HUGE aspect. If WRC should be a place for manufacturers to spend their marketing dollars, it has to gather large crowds both on TV and on the stages. If You gather these crowds, You make money for the manufacturer, the TV-rights holders, and the rally organizers, and the locals. Then aspects like sound etc becomes less of an object, because it is created a demand for the show, and vendors bid against each others to be a part of the spectacle.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
The WRC has been in a downwards spiral since 2004. And there are multiple reasons. Here are some:
1) The combination of Citroën, Michelin and Loeb was unbeatable, which made the show the worst a show can be: predictable. A quote reads that sport should be a show with an unknown ending.
2) The promotors never delivered on their promises of TV-covarage, including live scheduling etc.
3) The promotors never took full advantage of the great possibilities opened with the boom in rally gaming, making it theoretically possible for them to host rallies for the gamers where they could compete against the real drivers on the same stages in real time. Gaming was bringing rallying out to the masses.
4) The promotor threating dumbing down their communication towards the fans (like the WRC magazine, WRC.com etc) which neither attracts the true fans (because its nothing to learn) and not new fans because the simplified image isn't sexy. Look to NASCAR for a much better way off doing this.
5) Tire breakthroughs, Aerodynamical break troughs with really efficient wings and splitters and undertarys, technical breakthroughs like advanced differentials and driving break troughs made the cars/drivers less spectacular to watch.
6) The rallies them selves becoming Mickey Mouse events that are much more homogeneous, and takes away a lot from the show (running the same stages several times etc, no more night driving), and taking away much of the aspect of bringing rally to the people. All of this contributing to the rally itself covering a much smaller region, which lower the geographical area of positive economical input. Again loosing a lot of political benevolence with again makes the rallies more difficult to host, and the local politicians of the neighboring regions more strict towards noise etc.
7) The cars getting expensive to the extreme, in a combination of lower PR value, making for lower ROI on the marketing money spent, which again results in manufacturers walking out.
If the show is valuable enough cities and communities will even tear down buildings and erect new ones if You tell them to. They will even build new roads. I can promise You that the only reason sound is a "problem" is that WRC is not valuable enough right now as a show.
Compare it to what communities and countries are willing to do to host the Olympic games or the World Soccer Championship.
And the new proposed regulation changes will not change a darn thing. It is anal to the extreme to think that a few millimeters here and an active diff there will make any big difference on the future of rallying.
To hunt down the spirit og the WRC You need to find the legendary stories of the battles between brave men (and a very brave woman) and their monstrous machines. And then create events that are hugely spectacular showing of great feats on all surfaces, in all weathers, in all conditions, in all parts of the globe. This is what rally was built on, and this is what its future should include.
Make each rally a combination of the LeMans 24H, the Dakar, and the Monte Carlo rally. Make them stand out. Taking away events to make each event more distinct and a better show, is better than adding to similar events.
Make it so its easy to tell the incredible stories. Reach out to the fans with social media, TV, and the rally it self, so that they will pass on the great stories.
Make the cars cheaper to build and run, to allow for more manufacturers and more drivers.
Recruit drivers because of talent, not fat wallets.
Take away mechanical grip, take away aerodynamical grip, add power, sound and looks, make the cars beasts that us mere mortals would not be capable of running. Make it visibly matter that the surface changes, not as now where the cars have almost the same grip level wherever they go.
Take Richard Burns rally, modernize it, and make it the official game, and give the fans a possibility of battling the drivers on the Power Stage.
Etc etc.
Rally has with out a doubt been the most exiting and extreme motorsport in the world, its time to make it that again.
Have you played DiRT Rally? Easily the best rallying game since RBR. It just needs time for more content to be available.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lundefaret
I agree with both what Mirek and Lundefaret say, on the one hand there needs to remain some link between what the manufacturers do day to day and some social responsibility but on the other hand the WRC needs to genuinely set pulses racing, not this bullshit about wider arches, longer bumper extensions, larger turbo restrictors and bigger rear wings.
The way I see it the WRC can do two things:
a) remain sensible, as it is now, and with the 2017 rule changes add 5% to the technical package in most areas and hope to keep the manufacturers involved and lose a little of the 'boring'.
b) go risky, very risky, and make the championship absolutely mental, that's the only way it'll be as popular as in the 80s-90s.
I know it's completely unreasonable to expect/hope that they will make the WRC go nuts but in the end it's all about publicity right? I doubt you'd get more publicity than some bonkers 2.5 litre 4/5/6/Rotary engines making orgasmic noise and coming from sports cars by just turning the current ShoppingTrolley+ into ShoppingTrolley++
Maybe I'm looking for something that isn't WRC but they need to take a bigger risk, even if it's just one aspect of the technical rules, to get petrolheads interested again. It's the World Rally Championship, you can't tell me interest from petrolheads isn't important. And by petrolheads I make distinction from car geeks - I consider myself both but being a car geek is just taking interest in the details behind cars and their interesting stories. A petrolhead is what I consider any person who can appreciate something cool about a car, whether it's the way it looks, sounds or belts round a corner - and there are plenty of those type of people in the world.
Maybe the 2017 rule changes will do that, but I'm not convinced. It'll just be maybe a few % better.
Dear Lundefaret, You forget the most important thing of all. Rallying is not WRC. WRC is just the pinacle of the sport but rallysport itself is much bigger thing. When You started about "perfect modern rallycar" I thought naturally that You mean something for rallying not for WRC only.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lundefaret
It was till few years ago but recently it isn't. Quite the opposite. Currently there are four of five biggest manufacturers in the world comitted in WRC and that has never happen in the history (I have already included Toyota). The times of two manufacturers are long gone. There is healthy support championship WRC2 with a level which has hardly ever any support class seen. Good luck in creating something better. Come on, enjoy the show a little bit and don't waste time on crying about something which will never happen. Or do You simply hate that Ogier and VW rule the show? Yes, they do but that happens. All motorsports have periods when one team rules the others, it's nothing new. Lancias in the early gr.A era, Mitsubishi with Makinen... how about Schumacher in F1, Rossi in MotoGP, Christensen in Le Mans, Peterhansel, Despres or Chagin in Dakar?Quote:
Originally Posted by Lundefaret
Or maybe the opposite? In any other sports people buy crazy expensive tickets to see the unbeatable icons. Why shall it be different with WRC than with athletics, boxing, F1, MotoGP, Dakar or skiing?Quote:
Originally Posted by Lundefaret
TrueQuote:
Originally Posted by Lundefaret
Maybe but I think that this point is a little overrated as it would attract mainly teenagers. I don't see thousands of people entering armies because they like playing WoT but maybe I'm wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lundefaret
Well, I have to admit I don't know a single person who at least somehow follows NASCAR (me included). Some of my friends know something about MotoGP, F1 or WRC though. Maybe it's not as You think or maybe central Europe is different than Norway or I don't know.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lundefaret
True, however current WRC cars are filled with a lot of old-stylish (I would even say ancient) stuff such as no center diffs, simple clutchpack LSDs etc. Maybe it's just me but I don't see anything wrong with the spectacle current WRC cars bring. It was worse with previous generation of cars with more hi-tech stuff.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lundefaret
It's not 80' anymore. Population and especially traffic density is on entirely different level. You can do 1000 km long rally in Argentina, of course but in Germany or France? Hardly. But I do agree with the point that the events shall bring more diversity.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lundefaret
Totally not true. WRC cars were more expensive 10 years a go (even in nominal numbers) and no manufacturers are walking away. In fact there are three new manufacturers in the sport and accidentally they are the two biggest in the world (VW and Toyota) and the fifth biggest and fastest growing in the world (Hyundai).Quote:
Originally Posted by Lundefaret
You can dream about rallying being something comparable to Olympic games but that's all You can do. Maybe You shall turn Your eyes back on the earth instead.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lundefaret
Agree with that. I don't like the new regulations either.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lundefaret
I somehow don't believe it works for 21st century people.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lundefaret
Yeah, that sounds nice. It's harder to make it reality though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lundefaret
Please not again. You contradict Yourself. You can do whatever regulations but it will be always crazy expensive when the manufacturers will be involved. Why? Simply because they put in what it worth and the bigger the image of WRC is the more they spend. That's simple rule. The fact that VW spends something like 150 million Euros per WRC season shall tell You already that WRC has some value. Much bigger than what You think (at least it looks like that from Your posts).Quote:
Originally Posted by Lundefaret
A simple question... what connects Loeb, Ogier, Sordo, Neuville or Meeke? They came from talent-searching competitions such as French Peugeot cup, Belgian Fiesta Trophy and all of them did JWRC. You can't buy talent. None of the official manufacturer drivers in WRC is there due to his money. They are there because they can drive better than others. Please don't tell me that Loeb or Ogier were rich boys who bought their titles.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lundefaret
I can see a lot of sideways action on current WRC events. I would say a lot more than in gr.A era where the cars were even unable to make a handbrake turn and despite that people somehow remember them as something extremely spectacular (just few days a go I watched a live TV stage from Portugal 94 and the only proper sideways driver there was Emil Triner with the little Favorit F2).Quote:
Originally Posted by Lundefaret
I have been an admin of rbronlineracing.cz for many years and I do agree that it's the best rally game ever. Still I know that the developer of RBR went bankrupt for a reason that nobody was buying the game because it was too difficult for majority of gamers. And it's also a reason why I don't play it anymore (for six years now) as I simply don't have time to test every day to be still beaten by some 12 years old boys by minutes...Quote:
Originally Posted by Lundefaret
A little bit too big words. There are a lot more extreme kinds of motorsport and I strongly hope WRC will not go their way.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lundefaret
This incredible wall of text has 10385 characters. I think it's time to stop. Have a good night and please don't be angry if I don't answer anymore. It takes too much time and I have to do something else too...
Have to say, Mirek has explained why we have the cars we have extremely well; the manufacturers pay for the show, they get what they want, sadly.
But, I do think what Lundefaret says is spot on. A WRC round should be a huge 'event'; not what we have had for the last 15 years - identikit events that are the same year after year. But, that is an old story, and teams, manufacturers & the promoter seem to prefer the status quo.
As much as I like to agree with You, this sounds just a nice fairy tale. The real world is more like Mirek opposed to. There have been talks few years for 17' changes as some kind of revolution in the Rally sport, but appears as more like an slight upgrade to the current Rally cars. So I understand the disappointment, but as soon manufacturers are happy with it, so we should supposed to be. And recently WRC can be considered as manufacturers friendly, so we should be happy about this diversity. I also think like You in the way things should go, though some of technical aspects are a bit too much for me. Rally cars should be close to road cars in nature, but that appears to be too expensive for really high level tech. So the current cars I consider as a compromise between spectacle, rally geniality and costs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lundefaret
Lets see what happens in 17' and what "upgrades" will finally be approved.
Returning back to Group B days, I really liked what AUDI had done with their cars, just tuned road Quattro road cars without any revolutionary construction changes as in 206, S4, MG. Group S eventually would change this though, but it never happened.
To make rallying great, we need to dream. Great stuff is founded on dreams.
Today it does not matter if the WRC goes to China or Argentina, Finland or Greece, there will be more similarities than differences, and the sense of adventure has gone.
The Rally Monte Carlo is maybe the best example. It is ruined, but it could be made great again (it was on its way during the IRC days).
Not that many years ago it started from starting points across Europe. Even in Oslo, Norway. They all gathered in France, and ran the rally in the alps around Monaco. It was night stages, more days, the drivers needed to endure a harder work out, again making them seem like bigger heroes.
Today such a layout for Monaco would be 100% doable (it is still done in the Historic, which I have had the pleassure to attend as a codriver).
It would be great for bringing rally to the people, and would fit hand in glove with social media.
Every check point in Europe would be host of larger or smaller events, and the Return On Investment in regards to marketing would be great. You would have a lot of press in national, regional and local media, which have several benefits. 1) Media exposure. 2) Creating a demand in the public of wanting to know more about the event, including results, etc. Increasing the value of the event, and the sport all the way.
Each rally should be looked at in the same way. How can we make the best possible event/show out of this?
And each rally should have its own character. A totally similar German and French event is a no go. And all rallies dont need to be 1000KM, but some should.
To make this feasible, one needs to take the total responsibility of the event away from the local organizer, and set up a WRC orginazing team that works with the locals in a whole other fashion then now.
Take Rally China as an example.
This could be a great rally for China and the WRC. This could and should be The Great Oriental Adventure.
To make this happen one can not rely on local organization achieving above their experience and competence in a test event. One have to have a large team from the promotor that does the organizing, this have to be experienced rally organizers that are of the same calibre as the ones that made the 1970 London to Mexico happen, and also a "concept staff" making the event the best adventure it could be.
If that is in place, then one off course need a very good dialogue with the locals, so that everything is in order with the local communities etc.
Then one could start to brain storm. What about a jump over the Great Wall Of China, what about etc etc.
Today arranging a WRC rally is made very difficult because one are so reliant on local forces both in organizing and financing. This makes it unnecessarily difficult to "think big".
Then a few points to Mirek: I am a great admirer of both Loeb and Ogier, and know their history quit well. Talking about the expense of WRC-cars, I was referring to the times when everthing was active etc. (But i still would like to see more cost cuts to modern rallycars, or more bang for the buck)
http://s5.postimg.org/a6gt8kitj/dudu.jpgQuote:
Originally Posted by Lundefaret
Imagination is the beginning of creation.
You imagine what you desire, you will what you imagine and at last you create what you will.
World Rally Car 2025
https://scontent-ams2-1.xx.fbcdn.net...59338095_o.jpg
This is a recurrent debate in the forum and many of us were expecting that Mr. Todt should be able to resurrect WRC adventurous side. But it seems he has failled...so now we're stuck on this sport identity crisis, the perfect environment for Red Bull show off promoters ruin it once for all.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lundefaret
Of course the "each one for itself" spirit of the FIA members (and event organizers) doesn't help in order to find a proper solution, that is in front of us since the early days of rally: transnational events!
We could easily reshape the marathon spirit of the old classics (the Monte, the Alpine Coupe, the Liege-Sofia-Liege, etc) developing close to the border rallys, like it has been timidly attempted in the Swedish rally with the use of Norwegian stages.
Instead of 13 or 14 almost sprint look-alike courses, it would be feasible to organize 8 to 10 full week long (up to 600 ss kms with a day halt) rallys, pairing transnational similar events. A Monte using French and Italian roads, a Scandinavian rally in Sweden and Norway snowy forests, a Baltic rally between Finland and Estonia (or Russia), a proper UK rally, from Wales to Scotland, a Iberia Rally, with north Portuguese and Galiza gravel and tarmac stages, etc, etc., and larger overseas events in Australia, Argentina (with an excursion to Brasil), China and one well promoted North American rally (USA/Canada) replacing Mexico and profiting from the local RX exposure, would certanly revitalize WRC, providing a bright future to the sport!
Looks great Danon, but I think Fiat is already testing a car for 2017: https://youtu.be/EfdSOhU-i1Y?t=47Quote:
Originally Posted by danon
Cool... is it Gigi Galli behind the wheel ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Rally Power
Totally agree, and this is what I am talking about!Quote:
Originally Posted by Rally Power
The best bit: Its better economics for everyone involved:
- Lower logistics cost
- More media prescense at each venue.
- The extended time would allow more people to interact, both in national, regional and local media, and on social media, and out on the event.
- More localities can "split" the bill and shear the income. The longer time The Show is set in one region, the more money it creates locally and regionally.
(Covering larger geographical areas have huge impact, and rallying is the only motorsport that can do this, so this should be set as a Core Value, and be exploited to the fullest)
If this should work the promotor needs to rethink the way to do bussiness, and the works teams should rethink how they use their money.
The promotor needs to:
- Understand "the Spirit Of Rallying."
- Have a large organizational team (also recruiting some locals if needed/possible). This can bring the rally to new places and countries.
- Make large investments in media equipment, making live stages (as Eurosport did in the Monte IRC, but more) the norm.
- Make a better Web-based fan centre.
- Take advantage of the great possibilities from gaming.
The FIA needs to:
- Understand "the Spirit Of Rallying."
- Make new regulations taking in account: safety, looks, sound, cost, and cost of the organizer.
- Make a budgetary cost cap.
- Make the feeders series so cheap that real talents can get up the ladder.
- Work with national motorsport associations doing a copy of Autos de Jounes in A LOT of countries do discover talents.
The Works teams needs to:
- Understand "the Spirit Of Rallying."
- Spend money also in the feeders series, like the ERC.
- Spend money in national series. Its the "masses" that makes the pointed end sharper. A very easy way to do this is arranging local rally cups. A works team in rallying should be acquired to develop a Cup car with a maximal cost of about 15.000-20.000 Eur (Opel Adam Cup is a perfect example), and commit to spending X amount of Eur on a series (prize money etc).
As I see this there are two different wishes for the future of the rally sport that meets.
One camp see that the manufacurer and promotor influence, that has gotten it as they want it with FIA in the latter years.
This goes both on cars and on format of rallies.
The others would like more freedom. Both on cars and difference of the rallies.
Rally has traditionally been the maverick of motorsport. Happening in the coutryside, either in a dark forrest on gravel or snow, or a narrow asphalt road. Cars have been made in garages, or by small teams.
FIA was all about racing, mostly F1. Bernie turned that into a money machine.
Then someone saw possibilities of doing the same thing with rally, but lost some of the magic in the process. It has become too industrial and streamlined.
How can we shape the future so both camps will be satisfied?
I think what you are all looking for (and I would agree here) is a separate 'World Endurance Rally Championship'. I don't think the WRC is going to offer what some of us hardcore fans want anytime soon and it would be foolish to think that FIA/World Rally Commission/WRC Promoter are going to make the wholesale changes needed for that to happen in the near future.
Likewise a spin-off of the WRC isn't going to happen, nor a full blown R-GT World Championship with works Porsche 911s, Ferrari 488 GTBs, Lotus Exige-Ss, etc etc etc
Unfortunately you're probably right, and in the case of transnational rally's the great obstacle would be the compatibility of the ASN's representatives egos.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack4688`
But there are viable changes and one of them is to rid of the 9 to 5 ridiculous schedule. WRC rallys have to be more intense and psychical demanding. Drivers must be admired not only for their pure speed ability but also for their strength and endurance capacities.
Sunday morning short leg should be discarded but the 350/400 ss total kms could be maintain. This would mean having Friday and Saturday legs with close to 200 ss kms each and extended schedules (up to 16 hours), using night sections and flexi service areas. It could also be considered to spread the use of different surface legs, like in Catalunyia.
This are realistic and inexpensive ways to revive the traditional rally spirit and generate more media interest and spectating enthusiasm over WRC, for sure more effective and less radical than the shoot out (and God knows what else...) plans from RB promoter team.
I personally find strange why it's not allowed in WRC to run trully mixed events like Cyprus in IRC/MERC/ERC looked. I found that awesome and way better than the original slow and rough Cyprus everybody remembers from WRC. If it works with low-budget teams from regional championships why shall it be a problem for rich works WRC teams?
I also agree that the schedule is stupid...
I know Mads Østberg does not agree with me, but he can say what he wants... He is the complaining type anyway.
Night stages need to return... They did a few seasons ago and then disappeared again, what the hell happened there?
The promoter absolutely need to stop being so damn lazy. It is laughable how little of the current spectacle that gets translated to the TV.
Rallying is unique in the sense that it is not done on a boring track in a populated area where there is potential for the local bored people to walk down to the track and watch something go in circles for two hours. Rallying lives on visiting fantastic locations... That stage they do on top of the volcano in Azores is a perfect example. My desktop background on my work station is a very sideways Craig Breen followed by a helicopter on that stage with a massive drop on either side. I don't care that the logistics is difficult. The modern age with camera drones and phones that shoot better quality video than professional camera equipment from 5 years ago should mean that you don't have to ship 15 helicopters out to an island anymore.
... And since Rallying is such an effort to follow live the promoter really need to do a better effort to get the sport out. You have people paying ridiculous prices to go see formula fancy because ultimately people are lazy and he effort is almost nonexistent. Going many kms between stages to spectate, having to climb mountains and walk through bushes and stuff is an effort most are not willing to do in a day and age when a drivers license is becoming rarer and the population are urbanised.
I don't believe in mega lengthy events... There is the Rally raid series for that (and I don't see much of that so it can't be very easy to promote). People these days have a short attention span, which is why formula boring is doing so well. Those who watch it casually watch the Sunday race, the nerds follow all three days of action.
I think the calendar needs more versatility. Either scrap the Sunday as described above so that we don't interfere with F1, or use the full length of the Sunday and scrap the Friday. Also again, where are the night stages? The drivers need rest, sure but extend the rally into the night and given them more sleep in the mornings at least on one of the days... There can be a service Park party the other day. Nobody likes to party two days in a row anyway.
There was night stage at Monte this year and it was live, it was great. Difficult to make it happen broadcasted as most of the time is the complain, but they did it, so probably they're lazy indeed. At least they should do some effort we can watch live onboards on wrc+, in that case I wouldn't miss TV broadcast much.
Live onboards would ruin our lifes. Imagine yourself on sunday afternoon after there days in a row watching a screen all the time, your girlfriend would take an other man that weekend and you will take a whole week to go back to the real world.
I didn't like it at all. It was almost all helicopter shots, which I am not a fan of, and being in the dark that made you able to see even less. Then there's the perennial problem with the onboards - all I saw was some snow lit up by a headlamp pod, not the driver wrestling with the controls. I remember seeing coverage on youtube of Monte 1991 or '92, something like that, and the opening stage was at night, but because they found a couple spots to take some road-side footage from it was pretty good to see. OK it was only a few minutes of the hour-long round up of the whole rally not an hour's live coverage. I'll stop now as this is massively off topic!Quote:
Originally Posted by stefanvv
The event highlights are poor as well. I tried watching the 52 minutes programme today... So much bullsh*tting around, way too many slow-mo shots and barely any interesting stage-side shots.
But most of all: it doens't tell the story of the rally! They just seem to pick some random drivers and tell a bit about them. It may be interesting for the casual viewer, but not for someone who wants to know what has been going on. And I personally can't stand Jon Desborough commentating, but that may well be just me.
not just you ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by EightGear
A lot of good comments here, and many of them revolve around the same: WRC has lost its "story-line."
The promotors dont tell "The Story", the cars are not "Story-worthy", and there are very few "Storytelling" profiles in the sport. (I hope by God that we dont loose Kris Meeke).
Rohrl in Arganil, the Audi story, Monte Carlos night stages, 2WD vs 4WD in the Kit Car/WRC era, sweat and toil, and so on and so on. The Story needs to be worth telling.
The Cars, The Rallies, The Drivers, The Teams etc etc, the need to represent stopries worth telling.
I totally agree with you with the concept of story. Or better with the one of storytelling. We should have a thread about it here because it is a very very important topic so thank you to have introduced it. I think rally's stories (please note, I didn't use the word "history") are the most powerful weapons and opportunities for the sport. They are strong, passionate but especially unique. As you said, the rallys, the cars, the drivers, the teams, and each weekend carry a lot of them and people all over the world would love them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lundefaret
Said that, stories have a beginning and an end, they evolve, they change. We must take this into consideration too.
Then somebody saw the money one English megalomaniac was making by securing the world wide media rights---and decided he could do the same....."package it for TV" when he just happened to have secured the world wide "media rights"Quote:
Originally Posted by Sulland
And its been further and further and further away from the mass appeal since..
What was his name? :rolleyes: Oh! Rave Dichards or sumpin? Once co-drove with a great man I think..
Central to almost all rally's at all levels problems I believe is one thing: TV.
It is the problem.
Even the tiny little 16 car rallys we have here in poor little America are full of guys in Blue Subarus all pontificating on the NECESSITY of TV coverage for their rally "career'....
It is imagine to be the cure--TV's implicit endless money---for everything.
And all the twitter and the dreadful Facebook crap is just a version of the same basic same thing as TV: it is a PASSIVE and "effortless" thing....
And that is what TV wants: passive consumers who evidently will leap up and run out and buy stupid baseball hats with Red Boule and grab "energy drinks" to sustain them long enough for the grueling 15 minute ride to the car dealer to buy a new shiny something that they just saw some weird thing with the same badge doing amazing things on the TV...
And perhaps they're right those that advocate the full 100% passive consumer vision of what rally "means" and if you believe that the consumers can only be "bought" by watching 4-6 guys in half million dollar cars, then a lot of money must come from somewhere...
But it isn't working---just like in USA, a country of 315 million people, the promote the hell out of 1-2 guys ---neither of which could win a Regional event in Sweden, much less a F-cup event in Finland---has failed to draw any interest ---and entries and events continue to fall off a cliff.
Folk har slarvat bort tänken på grunden i jakt efter pengar.
Grunden, or foundation or the base whatever.. That either gone or ignored...
Maybe we are all just supposed to be brainless couch-tomatoes (as my little girls say) and have pavlovian knee jerks responses to whatever is streamed to us and explained to us "this is exciting".
Yeah he is a pillock. Just as bad as when we have to put up with Carlton Kirby on the British feed of Eurosport's ERC coverage. They both have verbal diarrhoea that their brains tells them is better than a few seconds of silence against whatever nice backdrop of the local landscape is being shown on screen. Desborough's worse though because he thinks he's a comedian.Quote:
Originally Posted by EightGear