2012 Presidential Race

What saddens me about the GOP was that it had strong leaders like Barry Goldwater. What happened? People who were level-headed are non-existent in the GOP. Militant Christians are overrunning the party! No one is willing to compromise, therefore, we have a stagnant government and volatile government.

The hatred on both sides is palpable. Sometimes it feels in America as if we're a massive powder keg and the Presidential elections of 2012 are like a matchstick coming dangerously close to igniting the populace.

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Originally Posted by gloomyDAY

Good thing I'm an atheist. No need for me to bow down to some invisible deity. This is basically stating that you should accept the status quo and not question authority even when you're being driven to the ground. No, f'q your religion. Christianity intertwined with the GOP is the reason Congress can't compromise.

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I'm sorry but the GOP is hardly a representation of Christianity and certainly not a representation of Christ. The bible speaks far more about helping those in need and king's duties to be generous to their people than the GOP are prepared to admit.

As a Christian I would be deeply offendend to be represented by either the GOP or the Democrats and the fact that the Christian right is so easily manipulated suggests to me that there is a distinct lack of any critical thinking whatsoever.

I wonder what the Christian right would have to say about something like this with regards their support of the two major parties in US politics?
Proverbs 14:31 Whoever oppresses a poor man insults his Maker, but he who is generous to the needy honors him.

I completely understand your suspicions of Christianity and so-called "Christian politics"; especially given that it appears that so many people sing songs and leave their conscience at the door of a church on Sunday and merrily go about their own horrid business the rest of the week.

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Originally Posted by gloomyDAY

What saddens me about the GOP was that it had strong leaders like Barry Goldwater. What happened?

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They had strong leaders, like Goldwater...who just happened to be borderline insane. Which side of the border it was is the only question.

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People who were level-headed are non-existent in the GOP. Militant Christians are overrunning the party! No one is willing to compromise, therefore, we have a stagnant government and volatile government.

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We as a people unbelievably lucky where we ended up, have always tended to think and talk in strong dichotomies. You see it everywhere (but its just part of the forest so being a tree in the forest it just jump out and smack you) Look how people talk of cars "Its WAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaAAAAAY bitchin " or "What a pile of junk" (hell not even a good rant like That car makes me want to vomit! Why its so gutless it only runs by somehow extracting power from other cars. It's styling reminds me of something I spewed and then flushed. I better get an icepick an stab me eyes out so I don't hafta see it!!! Arrrrrgh!) No just "It's junk") or wimmins "She's soooooooooooooooooooo hot" or "Bitch".

This being a motorsport forum, don't know what branch you look in on but for me its rally just gravel rally. 1st and 2nd after 3 hours maybe separated by a few seconds or an actual 0.003% and some guys "he's soooooooooooo fast" and the other "He's washed up, hang up the helmet," and the key one, you must have seen it ---always written by some Jabba-the-hut like gnome "second place is the first LOSER". <-------That's the problem....for idiots with no sense of anything, their own words and the American obsession on "winning" means you win or you don't take part. Any uncertainty---don't take part..

In my lifetime, just 60 years, the idea of compromise has become a code word for weakness, especially among the weak, fearful and protected. And of course, weak of mind.


Didya read the link to the "Paranoid Style of American Politics"? That was prompted by somebody you brought up: Goldwater.
All these hater-loon-religious whackoids are his descendants, but they've always been around.

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The hatred on both sides is palpable. Sometimes it feels in America as if we're a massive powder keg and the Presidential elections of 2012 are like a matchstick coming dangerously close to igniting the populace.

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Well the Repug base are mostly evangelical ravers, and for them it fufills they death fantasies about "End Times" and Armageddon--when they think they will waddle out and blaze away killing all of us who aren't exactly like them..

They'll still be old and fat and impotent tho.... :uhoh:

http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/e...ushobama-1.jpg

Although now, our credit rating is AA-, the National deficit is over 16 Trillion.

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Originally Posted by DanicaFan

Although now, our credit rating is AA-, the National deficit is over 16 Trillion.

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I know you don't like to look too deeply into things but did you read the credit downgrading report? You realise that it was Republican opposition to anything proposed by Obama that lead to the credit rating agencies downgrading their rating? It wasn't based on the strength of the US economy but an indictment of BOTH political parties to reach compromise that could sabotage American growth.

Oh yeah and the national deficit, do you think that might have had something to do with the credit crunch? Lets see how the American economy would fare with $100s of billions of spending cuts overnight. Good luck!

As Mark Twain once said, better to look a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.

Politics is fun, innit? About as much fun as women's wrestling in dirt.

I believe people have delegated way too much power to politicians and let them ru[i]n the world. People are not gonna take that power back by voting one crook or another. People would be much better off just minding their own business, ignoring the travesty called elections and thus making politics and politicians redundant.

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Originally Posted by DanicaFan

http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/e...ushobama-1.jpg

Although now, our credit rating is AA-, the National deficit is over 16 Trillion.

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Are you even able to see any of the other posts in this thread?

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Originally Posted by janvanvurpa

In my lifetime, just 60 years, the idea of compromise has become a code word for weakness, especially among the weak, fearful and protected. And of course, weak of mind.

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One sees it on display too from those people who see everything in black and white, not shades of grey; those who believe in such absurd concepts as there being 'good' and 'evil' people with nothing in between, for example. I have said it many times on here, but I genuinely fear for the mental stability of some of them.

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Originally Posted by Rudy Tamasz

I believe people have delegated way too much power to politicians and let them ru[i]n the world. People are not gonna take that power back by voting one crook or another. People would be much better off just minding their own business, ignoring the travesty called elections and thus making politics and politicians redundant.

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It would never happen, for human instinct, surely, always sees leaders of some sort develop.

Leaders do develop and their power is institutionalized in the government. It is up to the society to keep their leaders in check, though. With the moder days monstorus governments it is easier to fly to Mars than hold a politican accountable for his actions. That's the problem and elections are not the solution, sadly.

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Originally Posted by Rudy Tamasz

With the moder days monstorus governments it is easier to fly to Mars than hold a politican accountable for his actions.

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Those in government, maybe, but I don't think things have changed in that respect with regard to the average elected politician on the backbenches. However, I'm drifting off topic here, as this is based on my experience (professional and personal) of British politics.

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Originally Posted by BDunnell

Are you even able to see any of the other posts in this thread?

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Which ones ? The ones that defend Obama ? Come on, I dont know how anyone could defend him. He is horrible, spineless, and all in it for himself. I dont want and have no respect for a "so-called" leader who refuses to meet with the Israel Prime Minister but has time to invite the Egypt Muslim Brotherhood leader over here, has time to go the Letterman Show, writes a form letter to a navy seal that dies but writes a personal letter to some rapper. Oh, I could go on.

Statistics and facts dont lie. He has failed and will continue to fail until this country has fallen.

He gives billions of taxpayer money to foreign countries..Egypt, Libya, etc and these same countries attack us. He stops oil drilling in America but again spends billions of taxpayer money to Brazil, Columbia, Mexico so they can drill.

He wastes billions of dollars with green energy scams - Solyndra to only have them fail.

All these billions add up people...wake up!

Again, this man has increased the deficit more by himself than ALL presidents combined.

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Originally Posted by DanicaFan

Statistics and facts dont lie. He has failed and will continue to fail until this country has fallen.

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With sincere apologies to the intelligence to those who would and rightfully site Goodwin's law, that is what they said when FDR secretly invited the Third Reich to bomb Pearl Harbor :dozey:

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Originally Posted by DanicaFan

Which ones ? The ones that defend Obama ?

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I'd prefer to call them 'the ones rebutting, with facts, the ill-informed, paranoid rantings of someone who doesn't even know the difference between socialism and Communism'.

The fact that you made the latter comparison at all indicates that you are not someone whose views on matters political deserve to be taken all that seriously, I'm afraid.

Oh dear. I see it's a case of "You're with us or you're against us".

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Originally Posted by DanicaFan

. Oh, I could go on.

Statistics and facts dont lie. .

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Oh we know you could, but we could just read some neo-con hate sites or listen till Glenn Beck and hear the same exact ccollection of crap...
I keep saying it: YOU are the problem in the country.
YOU dispise everybody so much YOU refuse to even respond to them and YOU engage not in a dialog but rather screaming somebody elses' pre-digested poster or bumpersticker.

You and YOUR TYPE have destroyed the political process by your non-engagement.

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Originally Posted by Dr Giacomo Rappaccini

With sincere apologies to the intelligence to those who would and rightfully site Goodwin's law, that is what they said when FDR secretly invited the Third Reich to bomb Pearl Harbor :dozey:

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"His real name was Rosenfeldt, didya know that Goldstein? Huh? What do you thing of that Goldberg? Huh!?" Joseph Heller's father-in-law in "Good as Gold"

This is to Danica fan. Sorry I do not know how to operate the devices available at this time to have your comments included.

It makes me feel so sad to see this country so polorized.

You have a some type of poster on the top of the page with what the issues were prior to President Obama taking and what they are now. You telegraph with that statement that you will vote for Romney. Your choice.
May I turn the issue and ask you to let me know what the state of the country was in prior to President George Bush taking over in 2000/1 after President Clinton.

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Originally Posted by BDunnell

The fact that you made the latter comparison at all indicates that you are not someone whose views on matters political deserve to be taken all that seriously, I'm afraid.

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This, and -obviously to a lesser degree- preferring someone like Herman Cain to become President of the USA. :laugh:
Although I guess even Herman "bekiwekizeki" Cain would show less disrespect for 47% of the voting populace. :dozey:

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Originally Posted by BDunnell

I'd prefer to call them 'the ones rebutting, with facts, the ill-informed, paranoid rantings of someone who doesn't even know the difference between socialism and Communism'.

The fact that you made the latter comparison at all indicates that you are not someone whose views on matters political deserve to be taken all that seriously, I'm afraid.

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You can dismiss his opinions all you want, but his "uneducated" vote has the same value as your "educated" vote.

I have to wonder what propaganda is fed to people in parts of the USA. Some of the crypto-fascist views expressed here frighten me. How can someone claim to be educated and not know the difference between Socialism and Communism?

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Originally Posted by D-Type

I have to wonder what propaganda is fed to people in parts of the USA. Some of the crypto-fascist views expressed here frighten me. How can someone claim to be educated and not know the difference between Socialism and Communism?

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It's not just fed, the metaphor would have to be "What drive some people to gorge themselves to bursting on this divisive, hate fueled and hate filled diet?"..

Although there is in all the English speaking countries there is some degree of a contempt for "eggheads" or "ack-a-demmicks", even that vitally important position: teachers... we see it in the crap spit out by knucklescrapers when they say "those can can do, those that can't teach".......(never realising the irony of their ability to read and repeat stupid dogma is thanks to a teacher teaching them---and ironically ignoring the huge role of "talking heads" TV commentators who neither instruct or do, but repeat crap constantly so they have some noise in their empty skulls) .
Pommieland has its Chavs, Oz its bogans, but nobody pays any attention to them cause they're idiots.

We have our "highschool education only, probably trade skills middle aged (or wannabe middleaged) males" who seriously defiantly say "I haven't read a gawddayum book since highschool"..

And you folks have no idea what a joke, what an insult, what a triumph of mindlessless US Highschool is.

So, many would never claim to be educated, they would be instant social outcasts if they dared do that.

And if you have education and/or actual personal experience beyond the "highschool education only, probably trade skills middle aged (or wannabe middleaged) males", the inavriable answer is exactly what you see here from the "usual suspects".....
totally disregard whatever you say and reply with a poster AND some Old Testament quote

(Notice how they avoid the New Testament---that's the one full of all that be kind to your neighbors" and help strangers stuff that sounds like filthy comma-nist propaganda....and full disclose time: I was raised in the Evangelically drenched US South is the 50s/early 60s and I adsorbed the ideas and ideals---so when I immigrated to Sweden at 17 to learn my trade---racing---my mind was well prepared for the logical extension of the idea of universal brotherhood which was International Socialism...kinda ironic that New Testament style stuff is the root of Socialism....)

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Originally Posted by Lousada

You can dismiss his opinions all you want, but his "uneducated" vote has the same value as your "educated" vote.

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But his underlying opinions, based as they are on a position of ignorance, don't.

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Originally Posted by D-Type

I have to wonder what propaganda is fed to people in parts of the USA. Some of the crypto-fascist views expressed here frighten me. How can someone claim to be educated and not know the difference between Socialism and Communism?

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I see no claim to be educated here, alas.

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Originally Posted by janvanvurpa

It's not just fed, the metaphor would have to be "What drive some people to gorge themselves to bursting on this divisive, hate fueled and hate filled diet?"..

Although there is in all the English speaking countries there is some degree of a contempt for "eggheads" or "ack-a-demmicks", even that vitally important position: teachers... we see it in the crap spit out by knucklescrapers when they say "those can can do, those that can't teach".......(never realising the irony of their ability to read and repeat stupid dogma is thanks to a teacher teaching them---and ironically ignoring the huge role of "talking heads" TV commentators who neither instruct or do, but repeat crap constantly so they have some noise in their empty skulls) .

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Indeed.

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Originally Posted by DanicaFan

Which ones ? The ones that defend Obama ? Come on, I dont know how anyone could defend him. He is horrible, spineless, and all in it for himself.

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If you don't know, why don't you ask so that you can understand rather than subcontracting your own arguments out to images on the internet?

Directly responding, with your own reasons, to claims you don't agree with would be a start. Did you even read and attempt to understand the viewpoints in this thread?

http://www.motorsportforums.com/chit...ng-9-11-a.html


Leveling "Spineless and all in it for himself" against an opponent of Romney seems a bit silly, to be honest. Romney will say pretty much anything and argue any point of view if the bottom line is popularity.

[youtube]K9njHHyRI7g[/youtube]

http://www.slate.com/content/dam/sla...e568-large.gif

I don't know what has happened to conservatives or conservative pundits in this country, but they appear to have lost the ability to reason.

Take for example the idea that 47% of households don't pay any income tax. That is true, but do they ever stop and ask why? They seem to imply that these people are just takers,living off the largesse of society, but 5 minutes of analysis reveals this not to be true, so why does the idea persist?

I don't know if the graph will display properly but here is the breakdown:

53% pay income taxes, 47% don't.

The 47% breakdown as follows:

28.3% pay payroll taxes
10.3% are elderly
6.9% are nonelderly income under $20,000
1% are other

Well, right off the bat you see 10.3% are people like my parents who are retired, living off savings, social security and medicare. Of course,they paid in for 40 years so they certainly feel like they have earned it.

I suppose the 6.9% who are poor and the 1% other could be considered "takers" and not "contributors" of society, I don't know, I cannot say for certain who these people are, but 7.9% is a far cry from 47%.

So that leaves the 28.3% who pay payroll, but no income taxes. What it means is that these families got back 100% of their witholding when they filed taxes. How? Well,the first thing I would point to is kids. A $1000 tax credit per child goes along way toward eliminating tax liability. The next thing is saving for retirement. IRA's and 401k's all reduce tax liability. Then there is purchasing health insurance and health savings accounts,and flexible-spending accounts. At most companies, these contributions are taken out pre-tax, so they reduce your top-line income amount (but not your social security(payroll)) amount. Then there is charity, mortgage interest, and all of the other assorted tax deductions.

So my question is this. When all of these ideas; saving for retirement, taking care of your own health care, giving, having children, owning a home; ideas championed by conservatives, are taken advantage of, why are they now complaining that we are not doing enough? Several times in the 2000's I got back 100% of withholding through careful tax planning, even making as much as $70,000/year. I thought I was being a good conservative, but I guess I was just being a freeloader.

The GOP seems to me as having lost their way. I read an article the other day talking about the disintegration of the Whigs in the 1800's, I wonder if that could happen today.

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Originally Posted by DanicaFan

Obama HAS TO GO. This guy is a Socialist/Communist, however you want to call it, pretty much the same thing... Government controls everything.
First off, the Government is for the people, here to protect its people, not run the people's everyday life.

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Well take you suggestion of anti-Socialism/Communism and apply it to your compaints:

Unemployment higher than ever
- Two things:
1. Unemployment peaked in 1933 at 25.2%. It is now 8.1% or only a third of that. Your statement is materially wrong.
2. So what about unemployment? From a free-market viewpoint, unemployment is a consequence of there being an oversupply of labour or an underdemand of it. Suggesting that the government do anything is decidedly socialist - which you are complaining about.

Oil Prices high
- Oil prices are determined by supply and demand. Petrol in the United States is pretty well already near the cheapest in the developed world. Are you asking the government to interfere in the market and alter petrol prices and thus act with a policy with is decidedly socialist - which you are complaining about.

Ruining the healthcare system
- You already pretty well have the least socialist health care system in the world. The main reason why health care is so expensive in the United States is down to a combination of obesity rates (caused by free market choices and people's basic lack of self-control) and lack of tort reform. If you're asking for tort reform, then you're asking the government to impose more regulation which is decidedly socialist - which you are complaining about.

Lack of Military Support
- The Military itself by definition is a Socialist/Communist entity as it is a government owned monopoly. I assume you could set up private mercenary forces but if you're calling for the government to increase military spending, then you're asking the government to act with a socialistic policy - which you are complaining about.

Not defending our borders
Not enforcing illegal immigration but insteads caters to them, lets them stay here, work, get driver's licenses, etc...
- I would have thought that under NAFTA (North American Free Trade Agreement) and especially NAALC (North American Agreement on Labor Cooperation) that the free movement of labour within the bloc was the best free-market policy. Surely you want people to stay, work and get driver's licenses, etc. in order to satisfy the requirements of labour demands.
Why are you yet again asking the government to act against this in a socialist manner? Presumably you're asking for this on the basis of protectionist reasoning but again asking the government is act is by defnition a socialistic policy - which you are complaining about.

Our Nation's credit rating has dropped to AA-
- So? Credit Ratings and assessment are based on the forces of supply and demand with regards the cost of money. If you're asking the government to sure up the credit rating and the currency, then you are in effect either asking it to interfere on money markets or credit markets; both of which by definition are socialistic policies - which you are complaining about.

Record National Debt over 16 trillion dollars. He has increased the National Debt more than all other presidents combined!
- Since 1953 (which was the last recorded fiscal surplus in the US) there have been only two months of government surplus since - Jun 1969 and Apr 2012 (I do believe that Apr 2012 may have been within Obama's tenure)
If government spending was slashed to ZERO, at FY2011 taxation receipts of $2303Bn and an interest rate of 4%, it would still take 8 years and 2 months to clear the debt; by which stage you would have shrunk the economy by reducing aggregate incomes so much that unemployment probably would have exceeded that even of the 1930s.
Also, the last time the US was actually government debt-free was in 1836. Collectively as a nation you've had easily the best part of 176 years to sort the problem. Are you actually requesting to pay more in tax to solve the issue?

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Originally Posted by Rollo

Well take you suggestion of anti-Socialism/Communism and apply it to your compaints:

Unemployment higher than ever
- Two things:
1. Unemployment peaked in 1933 at 25.2%. It is now 8.1% or only a third of that. Your statement is materially wrong.
2. So what about unemployment? From a free-market viewpoint, unemployment is a consequence of there being an oversupply of labour or an underdemand of it. Suggesting that the government do anything is decidedly socialist - which you are complaining about.

Oil Prices high
- Oil prices are determined by supply and demand. Petrol in the United States is pretty well already near the cheapest in the developed world. Are you asking the government to interfere in the market and alter petrol prices and thus act with a policy with is decidedly socialist - which you are complaining about.

Ruining the healthcare system
- You already pretty well have the least socialist health care system in the world. The main reason why health care is so expensive in the United States is down to a combination of obesity rates (caused by free market choices and people's basic lack of self-control) and lack of tort reform. If you're asking for tort reform, then you're asking the government to impose more regulation which is decidedly socialist - which you are complaining about.

Lack of Military Support
- The Military itself by definition is a Socialist/Communist entity as it is a government owned monopoly. I assume you could set up private mercenary forces but if you're calling for the government to increase military spending, then you're asking the government to act with a socialistic policy - which you are complaining about.

Not defending our borders
Not enforcing illegal immigration but insteads caters to them, lets them stay here, work, get driver's licenses, etc...
- I would have thought that under NAFTA (North American Free Trade Agreement) and especially NAALC (North American Agreement on Labor Cooperation) that the free movement of labour within the bloc was the best free-market policy. Surely you want people to stay, work and get driver's licenses, etc. in order to satisfy the requirements of labour demands.
Why are you yet again asking the government to act against this in a socialist manner? Presumably you're asking for this on the basis of protectionist reasoning but again asking the government is act is by defnition a socialistic policy - which you are complaining about.

Our Nation's credit rating has dropped to AA-
- So? Credit Ratings and assessment are based on the forces of supply and demand with regards the cost of money. If you're asking the government to sure up the credit rating and the currency, then you are in effect either asking it to interfere on money markets or credit markets; both of which by definition are socialistic policies - which you are complaining about.

Record National Debt over 16 trillion dollars. He has increased the National Debt more than all other presidents combined!
- Since 1953 (which was the last recorded fiscal surplus in the US) there have been only two months of government surplus since - Jun 1969 and Apr 2012 (I do believe that Apr 2012 may have been within Obama's tenure)
If government spending was slashed to ZERO, at FY2011 taxation receipts of $2303Bn and an interest rate of 4%, it would still take 8 years and 2 months to clear the debt; by which stage you would have shrunk the economy by reducing aggregate incomes so much that unemployment probably would have exceeded that even of the 1930s.
Also, the last time the US was actually government debt-free was in 1836. Collectively as a nation you've had easily the best part of 176 years to sort the problem. Are you actually requesting to pay more in tax to solve the issue?

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To sum up: facts don't lie but the willful ignorance, inability to critically think and flat laziness of some "target demographics"

ALLOWS LIARS TO MAKE STUPID POSTERS in which every single point is a lie...and have it swallowed whole without a moments thought..

Again it si the reliable, predictable hate of people like "the usual suspects here" along with the known ---and amply demonstrated---intellectual sloth,
which allows regressive, ravenously greedy, flat evil people to gain legislative power and then legally plunder the whole country---and damage much of the world while they're at it..
Collateral damage and all (Sorry everybody :D )

If you're trying to lose weight and want some sickening reading, read how George W Bush and some of his daddy's friends managed to legally condemn, and evict and pay mere fractions of market rates for the properties the slimy scum intended to build---with borrowed money---the Huston Spastrodome, which was then financed at Public Expense....and then the Shrub sold his portion for $150,000,000 a few years later..

Great reading..

Socialism for the Millionaires.
America.
Fawk yeah!

The way that he's performing this act, I really don't think Mitt Romney wants to be President.

You give some people a shovel and they'll try to dig a foundation. You give others a shovel (Romney) and they'll try to dig a grave... their own. It's not often that a candidate melts down the way this character has. First the Libya thing and now this thing, where Romney tries to swallow his foot, talking about the 47% of the electorate that he doesn't care about.

Unless Romney can hit a homerun or three during the debate, he might as well cancel that U-haul moving van scheduled for January 2013.

"How are the mighty fallen" 2 Samuel 1:19 :s tareup:

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Originally Posted by Rollo

I'm sorry but the GOP is hardly a representation of Christianity and certainly not a representation of Christ. The bible speaks far more about helping those in need and king's duties to be generous to their people than the GOP are prepared to admit.

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The GOP is a representation of the Christian right-wing, and it is their accurate representation of Christ. The Bible does speak of many positive aspects of human life, but the GOP only cherry-picks verses from the Old Testament (e.g. Leviticus) and completely ignores the New Testament.

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As a Christian I would be deeply offendend to be represented by either the GOP or the Democrats and the fact that the Christian right is so easily manipulated suggests to me that there is a distinct lack of any critical thinking whatsoever.

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As a non-believer of Christ and an atheist I thank you. I can respect your beliefs and values, but not if you try and stuff them down my throat.

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I wonder what the Christian right would have to say about something like this with regards their support of the two major parties in US politics?
Proverbs 14:31 Whoever oppresses a poor man insults his Maker, but he who is generous to the needy honors him.

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Preach it!

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I completely understand your suspicions of Christianity and so-called "Christian politics"; especially given that it appears that so many people sing songs and leave their conscience at the door of a church on Sunday and merrily go about their own horrid business the rest of the week.

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I abhor this, terribly. Many Christians decide that once they exit their Church that they can act like assholes and be absolved from all when they return to church the following Sunday. Keep your religion at your place of worship and don't intertwine them with politics.

Ezekiel 23:19-20

All in all I think there isn't much much difference between the two. I really don't get this attitude of some who believe winning one over the other is the end of the world somehow.. they're both average

Jimmy Carter once told me a story .
Well , it wasn't Jimmy , but rather , Abby Hoffman , relating Jimmy's words .

Long story short , from behind , out of Jimmy's sight , John Tower was sent to talk to the Ayatollah to ask if the hostages could be kept long enough to make Jimmy look bad , and make Ray-gun an instant hero .
When things went sideways , Ollie and the Contras were added to confuse , and John was sent in again to cover the tracks in the Tower commission .

Somewhere about eight months after I heard Abby tell us this story , he was dead , having allegedly commintted suicide .

Given the treasonous tale he told , I don't believe it was suicide .




The reason I told you all this tale , is to illustrate that it matters not who the puppet in power happens to be .

Ok so here's a thought that is likely to be the burr under the saddle pad of the liberals among us. In regard to Romney's comments stating that 47% of the vote will go to Obama because that percentage of the population is on government assistance and if the vote Nobama, that is essentially biting the hand that feeds them. Why is this remark inflammatory?
To me it is a perfectly logical conclusion. If a person is being supported by a government, then why would that person want to change that government? I think the bigger question we should ask ourselves is why under the current administration is 47% of the population dependent on the government, and why is this considered acceptable? Having such a sizable portion of the population on the public dole is disgraceful. Obama vowed to fix the economy in 3 years and if he couldnt then he'd be a one term president. I suggest he at least keep that one promise. That way he can at least claim everything he has said isn't a complete and utter lie. Wake up people. See the facts and recognize that this nightmare of a president is playing fast and loose with this country on all fronts...economically, morally, militarily/foreign policy...and he doesn't give the first damn about you or your family or your community. Caring about that would interfere with his vacations, his golf, and his letterman appearances, and hobnobbing events with Beyonce and Jay Z.

http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/e...ps2857bd23.jpg

Danicafan did you not read my post? 47% is not on the public dole, unless you count the 10.3 % retirees drawing social security to which they have already paid in for 40 years. Nor should you count the 28.3% of working households that get all of their withholding refunded either because of standard deductions and personal exemptions, not to mention child tax credits of $1000 per child, or because they itemize their retirement savings, their health insurance and health and flex-spending accounts, not to mention give money to charity and take the mortgage interest deduction.

These are programs that the conservatives fought for and won to reduce the tax burden on the middle class, so why are they now complaining that people take advantage of these laws conservatives passed for us?

It is insulting to a large chunk of the population that supports conservative politicians. How can they not see it and let it go? The public dole is only the 6.9% that are poor, if that, because if you dug into it, you'd probably find out a lot of those 6.9% are students.

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Originally Posted by DanicaFan

http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/e...ps2857bd23.jpg

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I don't believe it about conservatives, but for sure bald eagles couldn't exist or live very well without the Endangered Species Act, which I don't think you'll find many conservatives claiming to support.

It's not even worth arguing with stuff like this. Just point and laugh.

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Originally Posted by Alexamateo

Danicafan did you not read my post?

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I think it's in posts like the two above to which you refer that the deficiencies in education mentioned earlier are demonstrated most clearly. I say this entirely seriously. They are typical of a person who simply does not want to learn, to be informed — the mark of an individual happy to wallow in their own ignorance, and entirely comfortable with others considering them ignorant.