Rally Deutschland 2012

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Originally Posted by Mirek

I don't get Your thinking...

a) It was rim what was broken, no damage on the car
b) It was Subaru Impreza which is pretty big car

Eh?

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verdammte Mirek, you type faster than me! :s mash:

Confusing what he's referring to cause I have seen an obsessive attention to weight reduction thru smarter design---and then weight back in to just precisely hubs/upright/BIG bearings/BIG!!! Brakes BIG suspension parts
Unless somebody has a sharp eye they may not mark to the importance of a pivot bolt being 12mm vs a road car 10mm or the wheel studs being 14mm vs 12mm, but those 14mm are multiple times stronger, not just 20-30% but 200%-or more.

But I wonder what he's talking about?

Yes, in those days it wasn't common to use finite element methods to optimize parts while now at least some basic simulations are made even for such stupid things like those tiny flat springs in the rotary knob used to set in-car temperature (maybe stupid example but it's from my job :) ).

As You said many people don't know that the strength of the shape is given by third power of its dimensions... and that there exists steel or steel 5x stronger...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by janvanvurpa

verdammte Mirek, you type faster than me! :s mash:

Confusing what he's referring to cause I have seen an obsessive attention to weight reduction thru smarter design---and then weight back in to just precisely hubs/upright/BIG bearings/BIG!!! Brakes BIG suspension parts
Unless somebody has a sharp eye they may not mark to the importance of a pivot bolt being 12mm vs a road car 10mm or the wheel studs being 14mm vs 12mm, but those 14mm are multiple times stronger, not just 20-30% but 200%-or more.

But I wonder what he's talking about?

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rims and most brakes used at grN are lighter from oem.Competition wheel studs are much stronger than oem too.
Fuchs hit the sidewalk with his rim,at this occasion no 2mm bigger studs wouldn t prevent the wheel to broke.

lucky he didn t destroy completely the ds3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RcFop...layer_embedded

Weird accident.

Verstuurd van mijn ARCHOS 80G9 met Tapatalk

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dimviii

... Fuchs hit the sidewalk with his rim,at this occasion no 2mm bigger studs wouldn t prevent the wheel to broke.

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In this particule case 2mm added to 12 studs make quite a difference.
The wheel can still be broken but the possibility to detach and fly away
is much less likely to happen, not to mention the shape of the rim is a key factor.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by danon

In this particule case 2mm added to 12 studs make quite a difference.
The wheel can still be broken but the possibility to detach and fly away
is much less likely to happen, not to mention the shape of the rim is a key factor.

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rim didnt broke at studs surface.So even 20mm studs would have the same result.
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.n...73667196_n.jpg

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Originally Posted by tommeke_B

This was just a tragic incident with a lot of bad luck involved. There's always some small chance that something unexpected like this goes wrong... Any more news about the injured?

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agree just bad luck.3 from 4 persons are out of hospital,but one person is inside.

Official information says one injured remains in hospital but without any details about how bad the injury is. The rest was already released.

Now here is a proper rally car with maestro himself:

https://twitter.com/RamonaRallying/s...95437513654272


https://p.twimg.com/A1AEPFrCAAEfPfX.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kirungi okwogera

Not again!?! Cars aren't supposed to burst into flame every time you rally them.
Karlsson needs to talk to her engineers... who was at shakedown, was it a major fire again?

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Fortunately it is not the car this time, only the grass. Car is fine.

*dp*

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ttCXAFrOU3A&feature=player_embedded

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dimviii

rims and most brakes used at grN are lighter from oem.Competition wheel studs are much stronger than oem too.
Fuchs hit the sidewalk with his rim,at this occasion no 2mm bigger studs wouldn t prevent the wheel to broke.

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Agree that tarmac wheels are probably lighter designed lighter, but compared to what? When we say OEM, tarmac stuff is usually bigger in diameter and width so maybe that's about even, but brakes, I'm not too sure..
I make a gravel kit for Sierra which matches original all iron disc but it is 233mm x 32:

That's US spec OEM, my disc and hat and 4wd OEM Cosworth--or "Group N"
http://rallyrace.net/jvab/spgm/gal/X...g_Brakes15.JPG

Same kit installed, and my suspension too
http://i475.photobucket.com/albums/r...sandstruts.jpg




But tarmac is typically at least 13" or 330mm at least and I'm doing 1 kit for some crazy guy that size and those discs are heavy.
Its clear tarmac stuff is much lighter, but then again they're not supposed to hit things....
Too bad they do.. like Fuchs..anybody else notice that all of the horrible things happening this year are all on tarmac events???

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BleAivano

Now here is a proper rally car with maestro himself:

https://twitter.com/RamonaRallying/s...95437513654272









Fortunately it is not the car this time, only the grass. Car is fine.

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Yeah low car and red hot kat makes for exciting result...

And cool to see Mästern with an Audi again.
Man I'd love to get a copy of his book....(hint hint)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by janvanvurpa

..anybody else notice that all of the horrible things happening this year are all on tarmac events???

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It was largely discussed here on forum and the conclusion is that yes, asphalt is much more dangerous for many various reasons.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by janvanvurpa

Agree that tarmac wheels are probably lighter designed lighter, but compared to what? When we say OEM, tarmac stuff is usually bigger in diameter and width so maybe that's about even, but brakes, I'm not too sure..

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Jan i compare a rally rim/disc+hat +caliper with oem ones.When i say oem i mean from exactly the same model.
ie.
evo 9 has as oem a 8x17 rim with 235-45-17 tyre. Oem brake is 320x32 but not with rotors with seperate hats.
At gr N the homologated rims are 8x18 and most of them while they are bigger(18'' instead of 17'') are lighter.Only Braid is heavier than oem rim.All the other serious rims are lighter.
About brakes the homologated ones are 355 x32(a lot bigger from oem) but the disc is not one piece as oem,with very light hatAlso the caliper is very light(titanium pots!!) and small dimensions compare with oem ones.Once i put them in scales and where lighter,but can t remember by how many grams.

Now if we talk about evo x(or sti <2007 if you like) with oem brakes at 350x32 and 8,5x18 as oem rims you can see that in this occasion the rally rim-brake combo will be much lighter.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by janvanvurpa

Too bad they do.. like Fuchs..anybody else notice that all of the horrible things happening this year are all on tarmac events???

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Always was like this unfortunately.Haven t see any statistics,but from memory if we could measure last 10-20? years imho would be something like 70-30 or 80-20.

Hello,

pictures of today are online at rally3.de
http://www.rally3.de/components/com_...2008400550.jpg

http://www.rally3.de/components/com_...1337203238.jpg

http://www.rally3.de/components/com_...1927271869.jpg

http://www.rally3.de/components/com_...1392227656.jpg

http://www.rally3.de/components/com_...1393050252.jpg


Karsten

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dimviii

Jan i compare a rally rim/disc+hat +caliper with oem ones.When i say oem i mean from exactly the same model.
ie.
evo 9 has as oem a 8x17 rim with 235-45-17 tyre. Oem brake is 320x32 but not with rotors with seperate hats.
At gr N the homologated rims are 8x18 and most of them while they are bigger(18'' instead of 17'') are lighter.Only Braid is heavier than oem rim.All the other serious rims are lighter.
About brakes the homologated ones are 355 x32(a lot bigger from oem) but the disc is not one piece as oem,with very light hatAlso the caliper is very light(titanium pots!!) and small dimensions compare with oem ones.Once i put them in scales and where lighter,but can t remember by how many grams.

Now if we talk about evo x(or sti <2007 if you like) with oem brakes at 350x32 and 8,5x18 as oem rims you can see that in this occasion the rally rim-brake combo will be much lighter.



Always was like this unfortunately.Haven t see any statistics,but from memory if we could measure last 10-20? years imho would be something like 70-30 or 80-20.

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OK you're talking big nasty Evo.. But I was thinking like a little stinkin' Fiesta or Citra road car with who knows what for discs.

And again the calipers like I use for us clubbie guys in USA are a couple or more of kg lighter , real tarmac stuff is BIG like OMG :eek: big, and its I'm sure a bit lighter but not certain its a giant difference. (pssssst we better be careful, this is interesting but it might be edging toward the bright red line marked "Pub Talk" and we might our wieners spanked :uhoh: by my distant cousin countryman who imigrated to same place I did...and is even named same as I..)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by janvanvurpa

(pssssst we better be careful, this is interesting but it might be edging toward the bright red line marked "Pub Talk" and we might our wieners spanked :uhoh: by my distant cousin countryman who imigrated to same place I did...and is even named same as I..)

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:vader:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8QHdj79VbAE&feature=player_embedded

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dimviii

rim didnt broke at studs surface.So even 20mm studs would have the same result.
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.n...73667196_n.jpg

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Slip of the tongue.
I referred to the word 'spokes' while thinking of studs.
My bad.

Video Shakedown WRC Rallye Deutschland 2012

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4LgVd7jFus&feature=share&list=UUp0W3YWC2U fLpnmkRPQARZQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMrHA6h7bmQ&feature=player_embedded

crash from van merksteijn:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qh5Pc9tu0xE

Action will start soon.

Interesting post on Colin Clark's twitter. Supposedly Sordo has been denied a gravel crew, while even VW drivers have been given the permission to have them.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Francis44

Action will start soon.

Interesting post on Colin Clark's twitter. Supposedly Sordo has been denied a gravel crew, while even VW drivers have been given the permission to have them.

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Prodrive are just a normal, privateer entry, probably paying the cheapest possible entry fee.

If they give one to him, they'd have to give to car 80 in a Twingo as well.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rallyfiend

Prodrive are just a normal, privateer entry, probably paying the cheapest possible entry fee.

If they give one to him, they'd have to give to car 80 in a Twingo as well.

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Ok thank you for the clarification. I thought only WRC entrants could have gravel crews.

Is the rally radio up?

23rd August, 2012 - Three persons injured in the shakedown at Konz in the morning have already been released from the Trier hospital. The fourth person is still receiving medical treatment.

Yes, Radio is on (just music now)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rallyfiend

Prodrive are just a normal, privateer entry, probably paying the cheapest possible entry fee.

If they give one to him, they'd have to give to car 80 in a Twingo as well.

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Colin Clark ‏@voiceofrally Rules say only teams/drivers registered to score manufacturer points are permitted to run gravel crews.

so dont understand why VW can run gravel crew and prodrive not, uuuuh german team in german rally

Radio is live now, started at 10:30

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Originally Posted by Livewireshock

Radio is live now, started at 10:30

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Gonna be a LATE wkened again!

Petter 0,4 faster than Loeb in first split....

Hey, at least you have a two hour advantage over us on the east coast of Australia. Actually was one of the joys I had while I was in China and listening to Becs, Colin and George.

Loeb already 5 seconds faster than Hirvonen on split 2

I was hoping Sordo could give Loeb a run for his money, without a gravel crew don`t think that is possible... :(

split 3 Mikko is 5,6s slower than Loeb

Latvala 1.2 slower...

This is going to be a dificult one for Mikko, as expected...

It is not even funny...