not all of themQuote:
Originally Posted by anthonyvop
http://www.automobilsport.com/upload...st-pontiac.jpg
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not all of themQuote:
Originally Posted by anthonyvop
http://www.automobilsport.com/upload...st-pontiac.jpg
You are right.Quote:
Originally Posted by nigelred5
But it is interesting to note that the both examples of Ugly Dallaras are also the ones designed with major input by their respective sanctioning bodies.
Well, this one definitely soounds better!!
AUTO RACING - VIDEO: Chevy 2012 Indy Car Testing Teaser
I totally agree, but I would add that both series produce some very good racing in some oooogly cars ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by anthonyvop
I bet those side pods get changed before the first race next year....
I'll take that bet.Quote:
Originally Posted by Phoenixent
http://indycar.cdn.racersites.com/pr...40708/FULL.jpg
I think they look just fine and will do exactly what they are intended to do, reduce drag and prevent interlocking of wheels.
Gary
When was the last time you saw wheels interlock on the top of the sidepod?Quote:
Originally Posted by garyshell
I don't mind the tall sidepod, I just wished it was symetrical across each tire.
Should we continue the debate of why ICS is going to the rear wheel arrangement they are? Hopefully the safety of the new car will be DW's legacy.
didn't at least one of the cars launch from a t-bone collision with a turned car
You can't make it perfect. It will always be vulnerable. But, you can continue to methodically improve it!
I find it tragically ironic that Dan participated in the testing programme of a car that features one of the safety advancements that greatly reduces the chance of accidents like his. I think Dallara should rename the model as DW-98, honouring his Indy 500 winning number.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/95505
A fitting tribute.Quote:
Dallara's 2012 IndyCar chassis will be named in honour of Dan Wheldon, the Italian racing car constructor has confirmed.
Dallara, has not confirmed the codename of the new car. A number of suggestions have been made, however. Among them was an idea by IndyCar driver James Hinchcliffe to name it the DW 001.
I think so, and I am not sure Dan or Will were launched by wheel to wheel contact as much as nose to wheel contact or even perhaps the same general situation that launched both Paul Dana and Mario - debris UNDER the car..... I have a feeling the new car would have still had a launching issue in this accident.....Quote:
Originally Posted by bugeyedgomer
In this case, I believe the solution is more about the track/car relationship than either one of those factor alone.
I also think PT is on to something with the fence - I am thinking that what may have done so much damage to the top of the car was getting hooked on a fence post and that may have caused the fatal injury or compromised the car so mach that he no longer had protection.....
I am assuming that someone is going to put forth the effort to figure out what happened and if anything can be done to prevent a similar accident in the future. We also must consider what Mario had to say, which I more or less took to mean that you cannot make racing 100% safe and that each accident is a unique set of circumstances that you may not be able to effectively react to with new rules or policies...
Wish there was video to go with it, but here you go.
Manufacturer program pushes forward - IndyCar.com
Let's keep looking for advances in the series this offseason! Video preferred! :)
Has anybody actually heard a single test driver, engineer or designer, tire installer say this new car is FAST? All I have heard anybody say is how maneuverable it is, nobody is talking about it being a fast car.
Does anyone know if the new car will be capable of the types of changes that are being recommended by almost every great driver including Bobby Unser, Zanardi, Mario Andretti, all the current drivers, etc.? All are unanimous that we need to return to the CART horsepower levels with greatly reduced downforce to prevent the cars from running flat out around ovals. As I understand it the new car is basically an advancement of the current formula with some improved safety features like the rear fenders. I've read that the new V6 turbo engines can provide varying amounts of power up to around 750 hp. Hopefully this can now be adjusted upward to the 900 hp range? Also hopefully the car can have some downforce stripped from it. My fear is that the current high downforce/low hp formula has become so entrenched with IndyCar that the new car was designed to continue that formula. If that is the case the banked ovals definitely need to be eliminated and only Indy, Milwaukee, Loudon and maybe Iowa should be on the schedule as far as ovals.
Back in the turbo era of F1 the cars had 1600bhp with unlimited boost, so my rather naive assumption is that the turbo cars can be tailored to produce high hp if the boost is deregulated. I have no idea of the technical implications of that, however.
Downforce is easy to shed. Stability of the car and pitch sensitivity are different things altogether.
Take a look at this lap. This is what I'm waiting for! When racers had to manhandle their cars! Who cares if it's not in english......
CART 1999: Montoya take Detroit Pole - YouTube
That was/is driving!!!
Abso-freakin'-loutely!Quote:
Originally Posted by jimispeed
Gary
That is Indycar and that is what we want Randy!!!
New footage from Nov. 2nd........
Honda - Chevy IndyCar 2012 Test - November 2, 2011 - YouTube
nice, the Honda seems to sound better.... Is it just me or does that engine sound more like the old IRL engine than a CART turbo??Quote:
Originally Posted by jimispeed
I would also be curious if anyone in the stands put a stopwatch on the cars - they do not SEEM to be going very fast - but it is really hard to tell......
Cars look better at speed in grainy video than they do in HD standing still!! :-)
I've always found that most engines from any given manufacturer tend to have a similar sound.
More proof that if it does LOOK fast it probably ISN'T.... I suspect they have to loose the airbox, and the massive "hips" - based on it's fundamental chassis shape, I am thinking it needs to look more like the 1980-1984 Eagle.....
Track data not matching up with modelling data. No surprises there.
Modeling data does not mean a thing since it can be manipulated to whatever the manufacturer wants it to be. I hate to say it but they should just run the current Dallara POS if next years POS can't get up to speed. I knew it would be junk because it looked like an 83 Eagle.Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrewmcm
so its not lighter....and its not faster...
They wanted a car that was Cheaper, With bulbous Side-pods, a rear bumper a Cockpit big enough to fit Hulk Hogan, have it be able to take multiple engine types....and then be esthetically pleasing by committee...........
And then they wonder why it is slow?
They are admitting it is disappointing on Ovals. That probably means they have major issues. There is a reason why they haven't released any times or videos even after what is probably thousands of miles of testing
Yep, I do computer modelling for a living and I know that, in certain circumstances at least, it can be manipulated to produce interesting results. The key to any modelling is validation through real data, and it looks like they're being found out.Quote:
Originally Posted by Phoenixent
Can't we just get out some '95 Reynards and Lolas and start again?
So it doesn't look that good and it doesn't work that well either... right.
Strange how Dallara who have had years of experience with Indycars seem to be having teething problems, while when Panoz, who had no experience in Champcar, introduced their new car it just seemed to work out of the box.
The reports indicate the car isn't as fast on high speed ovals as expected (IMS) and the handling isn't quite as nice as desired. Funny how some who typically trash the IRL have made that into "major issues". Or the car is "junk". Really?
So the car isn't as fast as expected. Contrast the number of miles to massage the old car to its performance level with the very limited number of test miles on the DW12. Personally, I would have been surprised if the new car was on the mark in every area out of the box. That would be highly unusual for any racing vehicle.
Even F1 steams with gazillions of bucks and hours of sim time rarely get it right the first time and often miss by a lot.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jwhite9185
Agree. They should call Elan to make more cars and problem is gone. They look like modern race car should.
[quote="anthonyvop"]They wanted a car that was Cheaper, With bulbous Side-pods, a rear bumper a Cockpit big enough to fit Hulk Hogan, have it be able to take multiple engine types....and then be esthetically pleasing by committee...........
Camel is a horse designed by a committee as expression goes.
You should say that to Paul Tracy. He has been less than complimentary about the DP01. I also seem to recall issues with the pit lane speed limiter coming on during one of the early races with the DP01.Quote:
Originally Posted by jwhite9185
yeah and the fuel tank leak on the DP01.... Generally, nobody was very complimentary about the quality of that car if I recall correctly....
That being said, there is no excuse for the car not working right at the biggest track which holds the biggest race and has the most testing - it should have been right at Indy from day 1....
And sorry, but it DOES matter - the car needs good press which means it needs to be faster or at least NOT SLOWER out of the box.... This car needs to be right and so far it is not meeting that expectation.....
The DP01 had plenty of fit and finish issues, but the car did work as advertized. In fairness, wouldn't the speed limiter problem have been cosworth's software problem, not the chassis?
NASCAR pimped the COT more than a virgin walking sunset blvd... it was intended to be slower. I don't necessarily have a problem with it being slower on ovals, my concern is the reports that sound like it's as much of a handling problem as it is an aerodynamic problem. It needs to be driveable. I can't imagine why thet thing would have balance problems.... it looks more inherently unbalanced than the old Dallara. They're not running the wing and sidepod combinations they first showed at Indy. Maybe they should test the more traditional roadcourse sidepods that were shown?
Quote:
Originally Posted by beachbum
Oh the voice of reason and calling upon history! Blasphemy! ...big ol' grin...
Gary
I'm not comparing, and I don't want to start anything so please don't over react, Indycar is all that is left. But.............I remember the DP01 was released and was racey right from the start. It had its problems, but they were resolved. The end result was a car that was sexy and quick enough to set new records.
Indycar should be able to get this thing right! They have the engineering and technology available. This isn't alot of these guys first rodeo!!
Just get the job done!!