Osama Bin Laden Is Dead

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4th May 2011, 07:34
DexDexter

Quote:

Originally Posted by 555-04Q2

Killing Osama Bin Laden has made the world a worse place to be now. The backlash is coming and it will affect all of us :(

That may well be but it is really easy for you to criticize, since Bin Laden's men didn't run a couple of South African airliners into the centre of Capetown and kill thousands of people. You wouldn't care about backflash, you'd seek revenge. I see that most non-American writers over here don't realise how big the attack was, psychologically as well. They needed some kind of revenge, they needed to get Bin Laden, no matter what the cost. It's not going to end terrorism, nobody is saying that but it is in people's nature to seek revenge, justice, twisted or not. it's in all of us, including the writers who criticise American actions.
4th May 2011, 07:52
555-04Q2

Quote:

Originally Posted by DexDexter

That may well be but it is really easy for you to criticize, since Bin Laden's men didn't run a couple of South African airliners into the centre of Capetown and kill thousands of people. You wouldn't care about backflash, you'd seek revenge. I see that most non-American writers over here don't realise how big the attack was, psychologically as well. They needed some kind of revenge, they needed to get Bin Laden, no matter what the cost. It's not going to end terrorism, nobody is saying that but it is in people's nature to seek revenge, justice, twisted or not. it's in all of us, including the writers who criticise American actions.

All nationalities, including South Africans, have been affected by this so called war on terror. Our authorities over here have made several arrests of terror groups linked to Osama Bin Laden who had explosives and intel in their possesion for the attack of targets in South Africa, more specifically, targets in Cape Town. Luckily, we were able to prevent them from happening. The whole world is a target, not just the Americans, who started all this sh!t in the first place.
4th May 2011, 08:01
DexDexter

Quote:

Originally Posted by 555-04Q2

All nationalities, including South Africans, have been affected by this so called war on terror. Our authorities over here have made several arrests of terror groups linked to Osama Bin Laden who had explosives and intel in their possesion for the attack of targets in South Africa, more specifically, targets in Cape Town. Luckily, we were able to prevent them from happening. The whole world is a target, not just the Americans, who started all this sh!t in the first place.

How did the Americans start this? I just don't see it. To me it started in 1998 in Kenya.
4th May 2011, 08:03
Eki

Quote:

Originally Posted by downtowndeco

Examples and exact quotes from GWB please.

Well, there's his crusade speech for example:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tenth_Crusade

Quote:

The word crusade was used by US President George W. Bush first on the day of the September 11, 2001 attacks, quoted below, and on the national day of mourning which honored the death of the more than 3,000 victims of the attacks. He said that "this crusade, this war on terrorism is going to take a while.".[1] The use of this figure of speech was criticized in Europe, and Arabic-speaking countries. Supporters of the President's usage of crusade argue that from context Bush had used the word crusade in a military, non-religious sense, such as The Great Crusade which was the phrase used by General Dwight D. Eisenhower to describe the D-Day invasion of Europe to the Allied troops in his order of the day broadcast.[2] They point to many modern dictionaries which define crusade (not capitalized) to include any vigorous action aimed at achieving a particular noble goal.[3][4] However, particularly in predominantly Muslim parts of the world, the term crusade produces the same sort of negative reaction as the term jihad does in much of the West.

Then there's his "You're either with us, or against us" -speech. He left no middle ground, and I think he gained more enemies than friends with that speech. At least Bin Laden has never demanded us to join him.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/You're_..._or_against_us

Quote:

The phrase "you're either with us, or against us" and similar variations are used to depict situations as being polarized and to force witnesses and bystanders to become allies or lose favor. The implied consequence of not joining the team effort is to be deemed an enemy.
4th May 2011, 08:39
555-04Q2

Quote:

Originally Posted by DexDexter

How did the Americans start this? I just don't see it. To me it started in 1998 in Kenya.

They have been funding terrorist and extremist groups for decades to fight the wars they could not legally fight to achieve their own greedy agendas. Now it is coming back to bite them. Saddam was the first one, now the rest are coming out to play.
4th May 2011, 09:14
ArrowsFA1

Quote:

For 10 years, Osama bin Laden filled a gap left by the Soviet Union. Who will be the baddie now?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf...t-union-baddie
4th May 2011, 09:36
cali

Quote:

Originally Posted by Garry Walker

America is not perfect and has made mistakes, but that comes with the territory of being the most powerful country in the world. Would the world be better off if the biggest super power in the world was Russia/Soviet Union or China?

My dear friend, If you haven't noticed then China is now the biggest super power, they have achieved this by far more clever ways - economics!
4th May 2011, 09:41
Eki

Quote:

Originally Posted by DexDexter

How did the Americans start this? I just don't see it. To me it started in 1998 in Kenya.

http://www.allgreatquotes.com/osama_...n_quotes.shtml

Quote:

God knows it did not cross our minds to attack the towers but after the situation became unbearable and we witnessed the injustice and tyranny of the American-Israeli alliance against our people in Palestine and Lebanon, I thought about it. And the events that affected me directly were that of 1982 and the events that followed -- when America allowed the Israelis to invade Lebanon, helped by the U.S. Sixth Fleet. As I watched the destroyed towers in Lebanon, it occurred to me punish the unjust the same way (and) to destroy towers in America so it could taste some of what we are tasting and to stop killing our children and women.

Osama bin Laden
Admitting responsibility for attacks on US on September 11, 2001, on videotape shown on Al Jazeera, October 29, 2004
4th May 2011, 10:15
Big Ben

thanks God we have people defending the guy who encourages his sons to go on suicide missions, who thinks he'll be rewarded in the afterlife with countless virgins for killing others and when faced with his enemies hides behind a woman. these people are arguing for the sake of arguing or they're just morons. Either way it's a waste of time to keep reading what they're saying.
4th May 2011, 10:20
ShiftingGears

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Riebe

Shoot the *******s dead and save the circus atmosphere and a lot of money.
Eric Holder made an ass out himself, Obama and the U.S. by putting a terrorist on trial, I think, hope, Pres. Obama learned his lesson. Sometimes learning the hard-way is the best way.

Arguably it would've been a greater psychological blow to Al Qaeda, as having him captured alive would've caused great humiliation to their organisation and those like it.
4th May 2011, 10:26
555-04Q2

Quote:

Originally Posted by eu

thanks God we have people defending the guy who encourages his sons to go on suicide missions, who thinks he'll be rewarded in the afterlife with countless virgins for killing others and when faced with his enemies hides behind a woman. these people are arguing for the sake of arguing or they're just morons. Either way it's a waste of time to keep reading what they're saying.

I have not seen one person here defending what Osama Bin Laden and his group are doing. They are merely pointing out that there are two sides to the story, not just the one the West wants people to believe. Both parties have blood on their hands, yet both portray the other side as the bad guys. Maybe they should all look in the mirror once in a while and ask, "Are we really good people? Are our actions justified?". If they had a bit of common sense, both sides would answer NO. Alas, the world is full of people who are always right over others.

The West started this fight a long time ago, and refuse to accept this fact and hence the "opposition" is retaliating. What do you do when you are under attack? You fight back if you can. The solution would be for both parties to sit down like adults and come to an agreement, but that will never happen, will it, as both believe they are right and justified in their actions?

As for morons...it takes one to spot one...as they say.
4th May 2011, 10:38
ShiftingGears

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eki

According to wikileaks, Al Qaeda has threatened to detonate a nuclear bomb in Europe if Osama is killed. Fellow Europeans, let's all say "THANK YOU, AMERICA".

If they had a nuclear device, they would've detonated it already. Are you saying you would rather Osama continue to exist without having to face justice for his crimes against Muslims and non-Muslims alike?
4th May 2011, 10:41
555-04Q2

Quote:

Originally Posted by theugsquirrel

If they had a nuclear device, they would've detonated it already. Are you saying you would rather Osama continue to exist without having to face justice for his crimes against Muslims and non-Muslims alike?

It doesn't really matter because everyone loses in the end. There is going to be no winner here.
4th May 2011, 10:50
cali

Quote:

Originally Posted by 555-04Q2

It doesn't really matter because everyone loses in the end. There is going to be no winner here.

Exactly!Justice for what? Then the circle will go on, for next Al Qaeda is looking for justice, then USA or some other western country, then Al Qaeda, then USA .... Oh yes, please bring us justice! Justice is if we all could end this, that's justice for all! But you cannot end this crap if you go and kill everyone in your "holy" path towards justice ... people need to get sober and think straight for a while.
4th May 2011, 10:57
555-04Q2

Quote:

Originally Posted by cali

Exactly!Justice for what? Then the circle will go on, for next Al Qaeda is looking for justice, then USA or some other western country, then Al Qaeda, then USA .... Oh yes, please bring us justice! Justice is if we all could end this, that's justice for all! But you cannot end this crap if you go and kill everyone in your "holy" path towards justice ... people need to get sober and think straight for a while.

You make too much sense. You should be hung from the gallows :p :
4th May 2011, 11:36
cali

Quote:

Originally Posted by 555-04q2

you make too much sense. You should be hung from the gallows :p :

:p
lol
4th May 2011, 12:14
Ranger

"I mourn the loss of thousands of precious lives, but I will not rejoice in the death of one, not even an enemy. Returning hate for hate multiplies hate, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness: only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate: only love can do that."

- Martin Luther King, Jr.

Just an alternative perspective.
4th May 2011, 12:19
Rudy Tamasz

cali, you need to assume just for a moment that people who designed and executed the operation were professionals and knew what they were doing. You need to take a quick look at military history books and strategy manuals to understand the rationale behind targeting the enemy commander. Using the common wisdom to support your arguments does justice netiher to you nor to other forum folks here.
4th May 2011, 12:26
555-04Q2

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malllen

"I mourn the loss of thousands of precious lives, but I will not rejoice in the death of one, not even an enemy. Returning hate for hate multiplies hate, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness: only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate: only love can do that."

- Martin Luther King, Jr.

Just an alternative perspective.

:up:
4th May 2011, 12:27
cali

Take a look at this:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/...74107920110504

"The authority here was to kill bin Laden," he said. "And obviously, under the rules of engagement, if he had in fact thrown up his hands, surrendered and didn't appear to be representing any kind of threat, then they were to capture him. But they had full authority to kill him."

And he was not hiding behind his wife as reported earlier ...
4th May 2011, 12:31
Eki

Quote:

Originally Posted by theugsquirrel

If they had a nuclear device, they would've detonated it already. Are you saying you would rather Osama continue to exist without having to face justice for his crimes against Muslims and non-Muslims alike?

Justice or revenge? IMO justice would be GWB sitting in the same cell with Osama Bin Laden.
4th May 2011, 12:38
cali

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malllen

"I mourn the loss of thousands of precious lives, but I will not rejoice in the death of one, not even an enemy. Returning hate for hate multiplies hate, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness: only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate: only love can do that."

- Martin Luther King, Jr.

Just an alternative perspective.

:up:
4th May 2011, 12:45
MrJan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malllen

"I mourn the loss of thousands of precious lives, but I will not rejoice in the death of one, not even an enemy. Returning hate for hate multiplies hate, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness: only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate: only love can do that."

- Martin Luther King, Jr.

Just an alternative perspective.

Apparently not something he ever said:

http://www.voice-online.co.uk/content.php?show=19538

:)
4th May 2011, 13:13
chuck34

This will be the last I say on this subject (or probably any other on here for quite some time). But I must say that 99.999999% of the time I will not celebrate any person's death. This is probably the one exception, probably Hitler too had I been around. This guy became more and less than a person long ago. More than one person, he was a symbol for hatred in the world. Less than a human being because he did not value any human life.

For those of you who seem to be thinking that we should not have killed him because somehow now terrorists are going to be targeting people. What do you think they have been doing? You honestly think that now they will do more? Get real. They are already doing everything in their power to kill every infidel they can.

Capturing him would have only given the Western bleeding hearts a cause to rally around. How many protests of the "inhuman" treatment would we have seen? How many calls of "torture" would we have heard? How long would all of this drug on? There is nothing that the US could have done right in this situation to satisfy many people around the world (or on this board). There will be and are calls of the US is evil, they did the wrong thing, they shouldn't have killed him, etc. But those calls and protests will soon die out. Had we captured him, those misguided voices would have wailed on for years. Proving to those very terrorists that Westerners are weak, and that they are winning, a little more pressure and we will bend to their every demand. All they have to do is kill a few more people, blow up a few more buildings, behead a few more innocents, and they will get everything they ever wanted. The people of the West will demand their own demise. I'm already hearing those calls from many on this very board. Honestly, that makes me sick. If we just pulled out of Afghanistan this would all stop. If we just pulled out of Iraq this would all stop. If we just pulled out of Sudia Arabia this would all stop. If we just pulled out of Israel this would all stop. If we just stopped believing in Christianity this would all stop. Where exactly do you people think it will actually stop?
4th May 2011, 13:22
Ranger

Quote:

Originally Posted by barryfullalove

Apparently not something he ever said:

http://www.voice-online.co.uk/content.php?show=19538

:)

Thought-provoking nonetheless.
4th May 2011, 13:33
Garry Walker

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eki

According to wikileaks, Al Qaeda has threatened to detonate a nuclear bomb in Europe if Osama is killed. Fellow Europeans, let's all say "THANK YOU, AMERICA".

I guess you Americans have no chance to understand that they will attack you (and thanks to you, now maybe also us) as long as you give them excuses to attack.

Okay, we should just let them threaten ourselves into submission and bend over. I guess you would love that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave B

Because by killing him we risk sinking to his level.

Think, then post.

Quote:

He should have spent his days rotting in a cell, now he's a martyr.

What kind of a jail? The kind they had in USSR and have in North Korea, where you suffer endlessly, you are in the same room with a huge bunch of other sick criminals or the kind that they have in many countries today, with all the luxuries? I am pretty sure that Amnesty international and all such organizations, not to mention guardian readers would get a heart attack if they had put Osama in the first. But otherwise, that wouldnt be rotting in jail anymore. I would have been quite content if they had put Osama in same room with about 25 of the most sickest rapists and deviants in the world and let him happily live his life there, but I am sure you didnt have that kind of a jail in mind for him.

Quote:

Originally Posted by janvanvurpa

You, then, tell us what the difference is, take your time, explain.

One picture represents people being happy that 3000 innocent civilians have died, the other represents a picture of people being happy that the mass murderer behind the deaths of many of their close relatives is finally dead. If you cant understand the difference, then I will personally send you the fuel and matches, if you promise to use them on yourself.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 555-04Q2

George W Bush is a greater terrorist than Osama Bin Laden ever was..

FFS, is this forum the gathering place for every idiot in the world now?

Quote:

Originally Posted by 555-04Q2

Are you ferking nuts? The guy ordered the killing of thousands of people in Muslim countries.

No, he didnt.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 555-04Q2

Killing Osama Bin Laden has made the world a worse place to be now. The backlash is coming and it will affect all of us :(

So what should we have done with him? Not chase him at all?

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf...t-union-baddie

I am not sure why this idiotic paper is so popular for some here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cali

My dear friend, If you haven't noticed then China is now the biggest super power, they have achieved this by far more clever ways - economics!

Not yet, but soon.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eki

http://www.allgreatquotes.com/osama_...n_quotes.shtml

Good one, using Osama quotes to prove your case.
Why dont you use quotes by Hitler to prove that jews are behind all the bad in world?

Quote:

Originally Posted by eu

thanks God we have people defending the guy who encourages his sons to go on suicide missions, who thinks he'll be rewarded in the afterlife with countless virgins for killing others and when faced with his enemies hides behind a woman. these people are arguing for the sake of arguing or they're just morons. Either way it's a waste of time to keep reading what they're saying.

It is quite sad, isnt it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cali

Exactly!Justice for what? Then the circle will go on, for next Al Qaeda is looking for justice, then USA or some other western country, then Al Qaeda, then USA .... Oh yes, please bring us justice! Justice is if we all could end this, that's justice for all! But you cannot end this crap if you go and kill everyone in your "holy" path towards justice ... people need to get sober and think straight for a while.

Well, mr.Kissinger, how do you propose we end this conflict?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eki

Justice or revenge? IMO justice would be GWB sitting in the same cell with Osama Bin Laden.

Justice would have been you being in one of the twin towers.
4th May 2011, 13:39
Eki

Quote:

Originally Posted by Garry Walker

Justice would have been you being in one of the twin towers.

Only if you had been in the other one.
4th May 2011, 13:40
cali

Quote:

Originally Posted by Garry Walker

Well, mr.Kissinger, how do you propose we end this conflict?

Not by killing each-other and declare that this is justice.
4th May 2011, 13:54
Garry Walker

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eki

Only if you had been in the other one.

Sorry, my life is worth too much compared to yours. Maybe we could reach a deal whereby a firefly is in the other tower, then it would equal value.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cali

Not by killing each-other and declare that this is justice.

So you have no solutions, other than "cant we just all get along"? How very surprising
4th May 2011, 13:55
cali

Quote:

Originally Posted by Garry Walker

Sorry, my life is worth too much compared to yours. Maybe we could reach a deal whereby a firefly is in the other tower, then it would equal value.

So you have no solutions, other than "cant we just all get along"? How very surprising

Better than the current kill em' all

Actually it is very simple: GTFO from Palestine, Iraq, Afghanistan etc and start dealing with domestic REAL problems like economics, drug abuse, social care etc. Easy. How many taxdollars americans spent to track down OBL in ten years?
But OK, as I understood bloodshed is the way to go. Nice!
4th May 2011, 13:59
Garry Walker

Quote:

Originally Posted by cali

Better than the current kill em' all

I guess in your way of thinking, we should just let them kiss as many of us as possible and hope that one day they might get bored and stop, right?
4th May 2011, 14:02
Garry Walker

Quote:

Originally Posted by chuck34

This will be the last I say on this subject (or probably any other on here for quite some time). But I must say that 99.999999% of the time I will not celebrate any person's death. This is probably the one exception, probably Hitler too had I been around. This guy became more and less than a person long ago. More than one person, he was a symbol for hatred in the world. Less than a human being because he did not value any human life.

For those of you who seem to be thinking that we should not have killed him because somehow now terrorists are going to be targeting people. What do you think they have been doing? You honestly think that now they will do more? Get real. They are already doing everything in their power to kill every infidel they can.

Capturing him would have only given the Western bleeding hearts a cause to rally around. How many protests of the "inhuman" treatment would we have seen? How many calls of "torture" would we have heard? How long would all of this drug on? There is nothing that the US could have done right in this situation to satisfy many people around the world (or on this board). There will be and are calls of the US is evil, they did the wrong thing, they shouldn't have killed him, etc. But those calls and protests will soon die out. Had we captured him, those misguided voices would have wailed on for years. Proving to those very terrorists that Westerners are weak, and that they are winning, a little more pressure and we will bend to their every demand. All they have to do is kill a few more people, blow up a few more buildings, behead a few more innocents, and they will get everything they ever wanted. The people of the West will demand their own demise. I'm already hearing those calls from many on this very board. Honestly, that makes me sick. If we just pulled out of Afghanistan this would all stop. If we just pulled out of Iraq this would all stop. If we just pulled out of Sudia Arabia this would all stop. If we just pulled out of Israel this would all stop. If we just stopped believing in Christianity this would all stop. Where exactly do you people think it will actually stop?

Excellent post.
4th May 2011, 14:04
Ranger

http://www.smh.com.au/world/us-sets-...504-1e7rp.html

Turns out he didn't hide behind his wife. Changes nothing he did previously though.

The events of the raid really won't be entirely clear until everyone sees that video, methinks.
4th May 2011, 14:07
cali

Quote:

Originally Posted by Garry Walker

I guess in your way of thinking, we should just let them kiss as many of us as possible and hope that one day they might get bored and stop, right?

There's always a reason for every consequence and USA/Israel has given more than enough of a reason. Do you really think that OBL one fine day just woke up with an idea of attacking WTC towers? Just like that this idea came to his mind? If you take away the reason, then there's no consequence to deal with.

Not that I'm justifying OBL or smthin, but clearly you cannot even understand the reasons for all of this and it goes waay back in history. And now we have consequence where all of these idiots are killing each-other and thus affecting our lives as well with their games.
4th May 2011, 14:24
555-04Q2

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eki

Only if you had been in the other one.

:laugh: ROTFLMFAO :laugh:

Classic :up:
4th May 2011, 14:27
555-04Q2

Quote:

Originally Posted by Garry Walker

FFS, is this forum the gathering place for every idiot in the world now?

Since you are here now, yes, every idiot is now accounted for.
4th May 2011, 14:34
555-04Q2

Quote:

Originally Posted by chuck34

If we just pulled out of Afghanistan this would all stop. If we just pulled out of Iraq this would all stop. If we just pulled out of Sudia Arabia this would all stop. If we just pulled out of Israel this would all stop. If we just stopped believing in Christianity this would all stop. Where exactly do you people think it will actually stop?

Its far too late to pull out now. The West should never have been in those places in the first place. Look at the sh!t it has caused, and it will never go away now. If you start a fire, you better have a plan to put it out if it gets out of control. Standing with your d!ck in your hands hoping that will put it out aint gonna work.
4th May 2011, 14:35
schmenke

Quote:

Originally Posted by DexDexter

How did the Americans start this? I just don't see it. To me it started in 1998 in Kenya.

You have to go further back than that...

Two root events triggered much of the social mess that we face today:

1. The discovery of petroleum deposits in Saudi Arabia and neighbouring countries in the 1930s, with subsequent land lease agreements to British and US developers soon after; and,
2. The creation of the state of Israel in 1948.

:dozey:
4th May 2011, 15:06
chuck34

Quote:

Originally Posted by 555-04Q2

Its far too late to pull out now. The West should never have been in those places in the first place. Look at the sh!t it has caused, and it will never go away now. If you start a fire, you better have a plan to put it out if it gets out of control. Standing with your d!ck in your hands hoping that will put it out aint gonna work.

Yep "we broke it". Now we have to fix it. We're there now, trying to set up a more representitive government so that they might be able to pull themselves out of the 17th century. But that's not good for people either. Damned if we do, damned if we don't.
4th May 2011, 15:14
555-04Q2

Quote:

Originally Posted by chuck34

Yep "we broke it". Now we have to fix it. We're there now, trying to set up a more representitive government so that they might be able to pull themselves out of the 17th century. But that's not good for people either. Damned if we do, damned if we don't.

It doesn't need fixing, it needs leaving alone. If they want to live in the 17th century, thats their business and who are we to tell them otherwise.

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