Hamilton's Driving

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Originally Posted by UltimateDanGTR

what's wrong with that? F1 gets some more fans in a country that wasn't really big in the public's mind, and get's bigger attendances on race day than before, because of a great driver who is a national hero, and they add a great atmosphere to the stands at the spanish grand prix?

To me the fans in spain seem passionate and enthusiastic, which is just what F1 needs.

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You forgot to say that some of them are racist too, but I guess those are details only.

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Originally Posted by ioan

You forgot to say that some of them are racist too, but I guess those are details only.

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There are probably racist F1 'fans' in many more European countries than Spain, sadly. Even so, I don't think F1 enthusiasm should be confined to a set number of nations, with those who develop such enthusiasms being dismissed.

On slowmotion it looks like a puncture. The inside wall of the tyre goes first.

That tyre was worn out.

Yeah, we Spanish people are a bunch of hooligan racists, the same way all Romanians are blood suckers. Hence, don't think either of us can enjoy formula one...

Just pa-the-tic.

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Originally Posted by Pulidor

Yeah, we Spanish people are a bunch of hooligan racists, the same way all Romanians are blood suckers. Hence, don't think either of us can enjoy formula one...

Just pa-the-tic.

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Yep, as you said, pathetic answer. IMO you were better off if you just sucked it in and kept silent on this one.

Can you keep a straight face while you deny the racist actions against Lewis at the Spanish races during recent seasons?
And I also mentioned that it's not all Spanish fans but some of them, certainly this little detail went by in your frenzy to find something negative about all the Romanians, and all you could come up is the biggest cliche about vampires!

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Originally Posted by BDunnell

There are probably racist F1 'fans' in many more European countries than Spain, sadly.

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True that, however the others somehow did not manifest themselves in the same way.

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Originally Posted by BDunnell

Even so, I don't think F1 enthusiasm should be confined to a set number of nations, with those who develop such enthusiasms being dismissed.

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Totally agree. Still the line between enthusiasm and schadenfreude is a very thin one and sometimes the actions are difficult to ignore.

Anyway let's go back to Lewis' way of driving, which was excellent today no matter the end result and what some might say.

Sorry ioan, I'm not going to keep feeding you. This is going nowhere and you know it :)
I've learnt to ignore your posts (this forum is a nice place after all), but this time I felt a little bit offended by your remarks. Since I guess this approach is not enough I'll add you to the ignore list, and problem solved. We all live happily ever after. Of course, you can feel free to do the same, no problem ;)

Signed: a Hamilton fan who would like to continue reading constructive opinions

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Originally Posted by Pulidor

Sorry ioan, I'm not going to keep feeding you.

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Don't worry I am not a blood sucker Romanian! :p :

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Originally Posted by Pulidor

This is going nowhere and you know it :)

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I knew it when I saw your first reply.

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Originally Posted by Pulidor

I've learnt to ignore your posts (this forum is a nice place after all), but this time I felt a little bit offended by your remarks.

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You shouldn't have had to feel offended as I am sure you were not one of those painting their faces black and other such to make fun of Lewis.

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Originally Posted by Pulidor

Since I guess this approach is not enough I'll add you to the ignore list, and problem solved. We all live happily ever after. Of course, you can feel free to do the same, no problem ;)

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You do as you wish, it's a free world (or at least we like to believe it is).
Right now my ignore list is empty even though I am sometimes tempted to populate it.

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Originally Posted by rohanweb

Anybody watching could see it was a puncture which* caused him to go off. But no our media plus Hamilton bashing idiots have to have a* bash at him. "Hamilton crashes out because he has been hurting the tyres". Small minded and even* smaller talented hacks! .. also stupid spanish fans glorifying Hamiltons exit was distasteful..

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Well, I could say that, in the same vein, I would cheer if Italy was pinged a penalty when an opponent took a dive, and Italy was eliminated from the World Cup as a result.

It's all about Nationalism and the way the Spaniards perceived that Fernando was unfairly treated at McLaren.

I mean, we even have a Pom here feeling good because Hamilton crashed. :down:

Bummer for Lewis with his issues, as he did well to hoist that car up into the podium.

As for the pit exit, it was a bit dicey, but IMHO it was an issue caused by the slow car being lapped. Several times during the race the back markers were in the way... which is not a problem until you see just how fast the closure rates are when the front of the pack comes by.

I can see issues at Monaco with the back of the pack cars causing some real problems. I hope they all learn to cope with it.

yes, i think there is too much over-abundant nationalism in Spain for Fred that goes way over the top to the point of fans being willing to do anything possible to put hamilton down.

I did not like his driving last week nor did I like it this week either.
But i did not like the crash reactions of the fans either. Clear joy was in the air when he crashed. Going off course with a tire or wheel issue is a potentially extremely serious and even fatal accident.

It smacks of racism as it seems to go beyond fun, although I defended the fans in the last big controversy as no one was celebrating this type of accident.

Bottom line, it is probably not racism but extremism where anything possible is tossed in a very mean fashion. The color difference makes it appear racist, but if it were vettel, button or webber who was the one who had been the prior team mate and so forth, then they would be screaming whatever nasty slang terms and curses they could find at vettel, et al,.

I also did not like the reaction of the crowd for the podium either, all for FA and very little respect for Webber or Vettel. (if the skin color of one of those guys was different than people would be calling it racist, but.....)

Do not like webber's style, comments and character for a number of reasons, but the guy drove like a true veteran champion, and deserved better than he got today from the fans.

even if they do not "deserve" the victory, nevertheless it is not accceptable to act you want to go nuts and inflict pain upon the person.

For all fans, this is suppose to be entertaining, fun, enjoyable. I would leave the soccer holigans and holiganism to the those fans and countries that want it, but NOT in F1. Maybe a little kool aid for some of the fans in some countries might not be a bad idea.

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Originally Posted by ioan

You forgot to say that some of them are racist too, but I guess those are details only.

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I am afraid that is a mere sad reflection on society in general. The UK is certainly not devoid of such detritus. You learn to ignore it and pity such people rather than despise them. After all , they are simply naive.

I would not suggest for one moment that the majority of the Spanish F1 crowd is the same as those morons a few years back who forgot where the shoe polish should be applied.........

In fact, the rivaly betwixt Lewis and Fred is no different to that betwixt Mansell & Senna. ALl good harmless fun for the majority.

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Originally Posted by markabilly

yes, i think there is too much over-abundant nationalism in Spain for Fred that goes way over the top to the point of fans being willing to do anything possible to put hamilton down.

I did not like his driving last week nor did I like it this week either.
But i did not like the crash reactions of the fans either. Clear joy was in the air when he crashed. Going off course with a tire or wheel issue is a potentially extremely serious and even fatal accident.

It smacks of racism as it seems to go beyond fun, although I defended the fans in the last big controversy as no one was celebrating this type of accident.

Bottom line, it is probably not racism but extremism where anything possible is tossed in a very mean fashion. The color difference makes it appear racist, but if it were vettel, button or webber who was the one who had been the prior team mate and so forth, then they would be screaming whatever nasty slang terms and curses they could find at vettel, et al,.

I also did not like the reaction of the crowd for the podium either, all for FA and very little respect for Webber or Vettel. (if the skin color of one of those guys was different than people would be calling it racist, but.....)

Do not like webber's style, comments and character for a number of reasons, but the guy drove like a true veteran champion, and deserved better than he got today from the fans.

even if they do not "deserve" the victory, nevertheless it is not accceptable to act you want to go nuts and inflict pain upon the person.

For all fans, this is suppose to be entertaining, fun, enjoyable. I would leave the soccer holigans and holiganism to the those fans and countries that want it, but NOT in F1. Maybe a little kool aid for some of the fans in some countries might not be a bad idea.

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I take your point, but I think it is no different to the delight on the fans faces when Ayrton ran out of juice in '91 or '92. I think Mansell sensed it could have been uncomfortable for Ayrton, and gave him a lift back, but of course, that is not a llowed now - how nice would it have been if Alonso had stopped for Lewis......?????

It would only be racist if the fans delight was because he is mixed race. If they are delighted because the home favourite gains a place, is that wrong?

Don't tar them (the Spanish crowd) all with the same brush.

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Originally Posted by SGWilko

I take your point, but I think it is no different to the delight on the fans faces when Ayrton ran out of juice in '91 or '92. I think Mansell sensed it could have been uncomfortable for Ayrton, and gave him a lift back, but of course, that is not a llowed now - how nice would it have been if Alonso had stopped for Lewis......?????

It would only be racist if the fans delight was because he is mixed race. If they are delighted because the home favourite gains a place, is that wrong?

Don't tar them (the Spanish crowd) all with the same brush.

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true enough, and while i previously defended some of them for making fun of his skin color a couple of years ago (and drew the ire of some around here), it is quite different to be running out of gas as distinguished from running into a wall at high speed and fans carrying on.....

like i said, probably not racism as the primary motivation, but it is the worse sort of behavior just the same.

And when somthing like that happens and a driver moves up, it is NOT because the driver was demonstrating superior skill by out running him, he was just lucky

It was a TYRE BLOW OUT.

All thoose fastest laps.


http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?id=48370

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Originally Posted by ioan

Yep, as you said, pathetic answer. IMO you were better off if you just sucked it in and kept silent on this one.

Can you keep a straight face while you deny the racist actions against Lewis at the Spanish races during recent seasons?
And I also mentioned that it's not all Spanish fans but some of them, certainly this little detail went by in your frenzy to find something negative about all the Romanians, and all you could come up is the biggest cliche about vampires!

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I didn't see blacking up as racist, and thought it was quite a beat-up, to be honest.

The joke was in them dressing up as Hamiltons family, wearing 'Alonso #1' T-shirts. That would be no different from Hamilton fans donning accentuated eyebrows and dressing in 'Hamilton #1' shirts.

Tyre failure is unlikely to be the primary cause of the incident. McLaren recognised that it was most probably due to a wheel failure straight after the crash and it would be a bit strange to accept responsibility when the fault might not be with them. I hope from their point of view it's not another manufacturing issue and was caused by outside factors such as a stone.

Such a pity because we had another superb performance from Hamilton again. Excellent driving to avoid the Virgin AND keep his place during the pit exit.

Just get the feeling Hamilton is the unluckiest driver on the grid taking Webbers crown.

No matter what "it" is, whether a bedazzling drive, a dubious manoeuvre or a full scale scandal, you just know the young Englishman's name will pop up somewhere. He just seems to be F1 at the moment for all reasons.

As for all this racism nonsense, give it a break. The racists are canvassing the council estates drumming up fear and scaremongering the easily lead. They are not at a F1 race taking the p*ss by blacking up and having a laugh and cheer when their F1 nemesis goes off promoting their favourite Son. Giving credibility to this silliness takes the focus off the real bigots.

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Originally Posted by markabilly

And when somthing like that happens and a driver moves up, it is NOT because the driver was demonstrating superior skill by out running him, he was just lucky

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Maybe, but I see is that as all the more reason to cheer - Hamilton was unhurt in a fairly uneventful off, and the luck given to Alonso was appreciated by the fans....

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Originally Posted by henners88

That could be perceived as light hearted behaviour, but that wasn't the only action which confirmed the racist element. When Lewis and his father were walking between areas of the paddock, they received loud racist chants which the ITV comentators at the time condemned. It was sickening and suggested quite a large proportion of the crowd had joined in. I also remember Lewis had come close to a 'blackened' chap when signing autographs. Its all forgotten about now and thankfully we haven't seen anything like it since.. :)

PS its not just the Spanish fans, and similar behaviour was seen in Brazil 08, so I would not tar all Spanish fans with the same brush. Its just a handfull of uneducated low life's who bring shame on the perception of those around them.

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When I was at Spa in 2008 there was a significant minority of the crowd who made racist chants and even made monkey noises when Hamilton came past. I don't know what nationality they were, but it was extremely sad.

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Originally Posted by Dave Brockman

When I was at Spa in 2008 there was a significant minority of the crowd who made racist chants and even made monkey noises when Hamilton came past. I don't know what nationality they were, but it was extremely sad.

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To quote Macca & Stevie....

"there is good and bad, in everyone"

:)

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Originally Posted by henners88

Lewis's choice of wording is not proof for it being a tyre 'blow out' in the sense you are suggesting. He says in the article he doesn't know what caused it. A rim failure can cause a tyre blow out, and the evidence from onboards and pictures of the tyre after the incident suggest the problem came from the rim area. The tyre is intact and not blown apart, so the weakness did not come from the tyre itself IMO.

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I thought I saw something breakaway from the tyre rim area a split second before the failure. I haven't seen the footage since, but "something broke" was my first reaction, not tyre failure.

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Originally Posted by Dave Brockman

When I was at Spa in 2008 there was a significant minority of the crowd who made racist chants and even made monkey noises when Hamilton came past. I don't know what nationality they were, but it was extremely sad.

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1994 at Silverstone we were pelted with bottles as we left because we worked on a Germans car.

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Originally Posted by tamburello

1994 at Silverstone we were pelted with bottles as we left because we worked on a Germans car.

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Bottles and cans were thrown at the 6 cars running at Indy in '05....

Let's not try to outdo each other - morons are a universal breed, and the ones who go and yell discriminatory chants or throw projectiles at professional sports personnel like infantile retards do respresent the minority of those who attend sports events.

There's no way of preventing it, unfortunately, and sports venues - and indeed people who attend these sport venues - should not be judged by the idiocy of a small minority of attendees.

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Originally Posted by theugsquirrel

There's no way of preventing it, unfortunately,

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Shoot 'em, or castrate 'em!

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Originally Posted by SGWilko

Shoot 'em, or castrate 'em!

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the latter only raises the pitch of their chanting

Back to Hamilton's driving thank you !

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Originally Posted by Dave Brockman

When I was at Spa in 2008 there was a significant minority of the crowd who made racist chants and even made monkey noises when Hamilton came past. I don't know what nationality they were, but it was extremely sad.

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Unfortunately, there are real bigoted w*nkers everywhere from the top of society down and Motor Sport isn't immune but that's not to condemn any mainstream group of fans, or even country, as fundamentally racist.

I think that the style and manner of Hamiltons driving will always attract strong, polarised views.

All I know is that it's bloody exciting and no idiots making monkey noises can stop it.

the authorities there should have thrown out and punished the racist. the world has not place for racist.

Regards to the cheering when he crashed that is a normal thing every f1 fan does when the driver he does not like crashes or retires. I have done it many time in the past . even i did it on sunday .


I am not a racist . i have cheered when Mika crashed on last lap. when JV hit the champions wall. when Hamilton got stuck in gravel. when he pressed the restart button in brazil. and times for many drivers i dont remember. when ever my fav drivers competitor retires from the race.

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Originally Posted by tamburello

1994 at Silverstone we were pelted with bottles as we left because we worked on a Germans car.

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Funnily enough, the tifosi did the same to Häkkinen at monza and Schumacher fans did the same to him at hockhenheim. There are idiots amongst all groups of people.

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Originally Posted by race_director

I am not a racist . i have cheered when Mika crashed on last lap. when JV hit the champions wall. when Hamilton got stuck in gravel. when he pressed the restart button in brazil. and times for many drivers i dont remember. when ever my fav drivers competitor retires from the race.

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It sounds like you could never be a racist because you have too much hate to restrict it all to one group of people! To me this seems like a very negative way of enjoying your favourite sport.

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Originally Posted by AndyL

It sounds like you could never be a racist because you have too much hate to restrict it all to one group of people! To me this seems like a very negative way of enjoying your favourite sport.

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I'd hate to sit next to him in a football match. :eek:

Mea Culpa. I cheered when Hamilton crashed out. It's not because he's black, I just don't like him, and it gifted a lucky second to Alonso, who I like. I wouldn't have wished any injury, and I'm really happy that he's in F1, because he's a very entertaining driver, supremely skillful, who for me happens to be the "baddie", the villain of the piece.

As I see it, that's the way most Spanish F1 supporters view Hamilton. Every story needs a baddie, and for them it's Hamilton. I've explained the alleged racist insults before, so it's not worth going there again (I say explained, not excused) Incidently, if you think those insults were bad, you should have seen the drivers' parade.

It's true that Spanish F1 fans are, for the most part, blinkered. They only see one driver. The British have a different character, and a longer culture of appreciating the nuances of motor racing. They're more fair, passionate in a different. It's worth pointing out, though, that when I read the report on the race in The Times the main story and photo was of Hamilton's crash, with some mention of some Australian guy who crossed the line first. So everyone has blinkers on to some extent. The Spanish are very honest about theirs, ugly as it is sometimes.

I saw a group of Spanish lads all dressed up as Bernie. Wigs glasses, the lot. About six of them. Are they ageist? Bernie-ist?

This post is getting too long and I haven't even got to the point I wanted to make......

....which was about the stewards.

Alonso had a bit of a moan about the fine Ferrari got when they were judged to have made an unsafe release on Saturday. IMO he was wrong, because the judgement was made and that action is penalised.

However, in free practice 3 on Saturday Vettel set the fastest time near the end of the session while a stopped Force India was being attended to by marshalls on the gravel, under a yellow flag. This is against the rules. And Vettel had received a reprimand in the last race. I think it's good that the punishments are less draconian now, but the biggest problem with the stewards is inconsistency, and that has NOT changed at all.

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Originally Posted by SGWilko

Rim failure, probably caused by trapped debris.

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Excuse me while I interrupt myself, but......

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/83530

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Originally Posted by fandango

Mea Culpa. I cheered when Hamilton crashed out. It's not because he's black, I just don't like him, and it gifted a lucky second to Alonso, who I like. I wouldn't have wished any injury, and I'm really happy that he's in F1, because he's a very entertaining driver, supremely skillful, who for me happens to be the "baddie", the villain of the piece.

As I see it, that's the way most Spanish F1 supporters view Hamilton. Every story needs a baddie, and for them it's Hamilton. .........

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Quite true. I used to hate SchM and was glad whenever he was beaten. But we needed him to be there so we can have a baddie for the goodie that we like to do him in. It certainly made races much more interesting.

My take on OP

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Originally Posted by fandango

I realize this is going to be hotly discussed, but surely Hamilton deserves some kind of real sanction for the way he treats other drivers.

He tried to overtake Vettel coming out of the pits in the pitlane. In the press conference he puts on his best "who me?" innocent face when asked about it, and tries some kind of "I didn't really know he was there" excuse.

He bumped Webber off before the re-start after the safety car.

And, he was given a warning for weaving in the last race. So if someone is given a warning and they continue to do what they're doing, they should be punished, right?

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Schumi and Senna had their detractors, tagged as dangerous drivers.

Hamilton is a racer, a very hard one too. There's nothing wrong with it, IMHO, so he's within his right to 'act' as if he did nothing wrong because in his mind he did no wrong, his conscience is clear - no fear.

[youtube]ko94oniszuA[/youtube]

and here is the article for the doubters and detractors to read for themselves.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/83530

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Originally Posted by Valve Bounce

and here is the article for the doubters and detractors to read for themselves.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/83530

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Don't mind me..... ;)

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Originally Posted by SGWilko

Excuse me while I interrupt myself, but......

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/83530

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All I can think of when I see this thread was last year's Hungarian GP - winning in an utter dog of a car. That day marked him as an utterly brilliant driver as much as his first win or WDC.