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Yet you know full well why Fernando struggled against Hamilton.Quote:
Originally Posted by henners88
"We Were Racing Alonso" says it all.
But, of course, Mclaren are a team with integrity and honesty, I forget.
Except the last three seasons that you claim to have been watching show that to be quite false.
It is not my opinion that Ron Dennis said those very words.Quote:
Originally Posted by henners88
It is fact.
That is what is known as proof, straight from the horses mouth.
I know full well what he said, but I don't know how so much can be read from one sentence. Is this you tamb? :pQuote:
Originally Posted by tamburello
http://www.joeydevilla.com/wordpress...hic_medium.jpg
So you believe certain things Ron Dennis says then?
Unwritten understood and accepted rule No.1 of F1 - first person to beat is your teammate.Quote:
Originally Posted by tamburello
If you are not permitted to race your teammate, that suggests team orders.
The exact quote was in answer to a question put to RD immediately after the 2007 Chinese GP when he said:Fact and context.Quote:
"The problem was rain and his [Hamilton’s] tyres were in the worst condition. But we weren’t at all fazed about Kimi [Raikkonen]. We weren’t racing Kimi, we were basically racing Fernando. Kimi winning and Lewis coming second was adequate. It just didn’t quite work out that way."
Still, not sure what this has to do with the success, or otherwise, of MS's comeback :crazy:
I suspect you have absolutely no proof or evidence to support your "suspicion"Quote:
Originally Posted by Saint Devote
Vettel and Hamilton both are better drivers than alonso. Hamilton proved it enough in 2007.Quote:
Originally Posted by Saint Devote
What evidence, what was so grand about what he did?Quote:
Evidence the Japanese Grand Prix of 2008 for example. Hamilton relies on his team and obeys.
Schumacher defeated Alonso THREE TIMES.Quote:
Originally Posted by Saint Devote
What was so excellent about it?Quote:
It is the peaks the quality of the peaks that one judges a driver and he commands from the cockpit which he did as an excellent example in Japan 2008 and in an inferior car.
As does the "great Alonso".Quote:
A driver such as Hamilton obeys his team.
Remember, he himself claimed he had nothing to do with picking the strategy for singapore GP, and said he LEAVES IT ALL FOR THE TEAM TO CHOOSE. So much about him making the calls.
So autosport survey is it. That is all that counts, right?Quote:
PS: he was placed NINTH as the alltime great in the driver survey undertaken by Autosport - aside from Schumacher - it makes him the best driver on the grid and in front of him were THE names of motor racing.
Thank you for confirming the fact and context.Quote:
Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1
Which was, as you have so kindly proven, that Ron Dennis, the team principal of Mclaren, confirming with his own mouth that the team were racing Alonso.
Yep, so got any proof about Alonso being harmed by McLaren or not given equal treatment?Quote:
Originally Posted by tamburello
This is usually were Alonso fans suddenly get busy and claim their mums need their PCs
It's not a bad suspicion though is it?Quote:
Originally Posted by Garry Walker
With the new regs a lot of talk pre-race centered on how drivers would manage the tyres and fuel load. Is it possible that Alonso managed his tyres and fuel better than Vettel?
Still, not sure what this has to do with the success, or otherwise, of MS's comeback :crazy: :p
The idea behind his suspicion is to hype up alonso without there being any proof whatsoever.Quote:
Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1
At Silverstone everyone goes with his own setup and LH manages to finish behind KR and FA even if he got the pole.
At Monza FA gets the pole with his first attempt. Neither of the other 3 direct competitors managed to get a better time with 2 attempts (and this was when drivers had to fight for pole with their cars loaded with fuel, so they actually didn't go faster with lighter cars). IRC that year nobody managed that. He dominated the race and won easily. After that all of a sudden he got slow and couldn't beat LH anymore. I'm convinced McLaren only supported LH during those days with the warmth of their hearts.
You're welcome, both for the thanks, and to your own interpretation of RD's comments.Quote:
Originally Posted by tamburello
Now, back to the question at hand - will Schumi make a success of his comeback?
It's the bottom of page 12 and still no answer. I think it would be easier if MS came on here and posted his goals for the season.Quote:
Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1
I imagine 'the team' here to be the Hamilton race team, Alonso no doubt having his own race team.Quote:
Originally Posted by tamburello
Not a particularly taxing concept to comprehend.
Absolutely, and I think he most likely had. Bet he would not have found a way past though, as the performance differencial just was not there, given the limited passing opprtunities at the track.Quote:
Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1
Oh, and Schumi has done quite nicely thank you very much in his first race for 3 years. ;)
How many other times have the FIA needed to police a garage to ensure fair play?Quote:
Originally Posted by Garry Walker
How about the mysterious tyre-pressure changes that led to the FIA putting a steward in the Mclaren garage?
How about the fact that Hamilton recieved no meaningful sanction by the team for his actions in Budapest?
Now, obviously a team wouldn't broadcast such underhand tactics to the world, but nevermind that as Mclaren, I keep forgetting, are above such things.
This is Mclaren we are talking about, after all, a by-word for integrity and honesty, certainly not a place were anything untoward would ever happen.
At least it is if, like Henners, you actually haven't been watching F1 these past three years.
Is a driver of an F1 car being off the pace due to incorrect tyre pressures a new concept?Quote:
Originally Posted by tamburello
FIA officials are always present in team garages throughout a race weekend to observe and check what teams are doing. Here's an example from Bahrain this year (two officials in white bibs near the rear wheel):Quote:
Originally Posted by tamburello
http://cdn.gallery.autosport.com/pic...su_10brn1926-2
Bet they are looking for HRT pills, smuggled illegally in the tyres - hence the wrong pressures.Quote:
Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1
Yes, but they are not normally there to police internal team matters, as was the case in Brazil 2007.Quote:
Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1
In fact, that has only occurred on that one occasion, so your attempted deflection hasn't worked.
Rather, it has proved my point very nicely.
No, but then neither is the concept of Ron Dennis being in charge of a team that scuppered their own drivers chances.Quote:
Originally Posted by SGWilko
A team that supplied equal equipment to the top two drivers in 1988 & 1989 did not have FIA inspectors imposed on it because of unequal treatment.Quote:
Originally Posted by tamburello
Can we have some documented evidence that either of McLarens drivers in 2007 had their chances deliberately on purpose not by accident scuppered by the team?
My fear is that 'Mercedes GP' or rather Brackley GP is not in the same league as the other top boys in terms of R/D, and that Michael's comeback career will be dictated more by that than by any other factor.Quote:
Originally Posted by henners88
Brackley depended probably more than any other manufacturer owned team on its owners (Honda) own R/D resources which was beneficial for both parties, Honda got to train its own engineers and Brackley drove down costs. While the process of getting Brackley and Honda R/D to work seamlessly took a while the end product was the BGP001.
Now Brackley has spent a year on its own where it clearly couldn't develop at the pace of the rest of the field because its own R/D depts are actually quite small. This year its working with Mercedes which is doing things on a budget thats about a quarter to a half of what Honda used to spend and which probably isn't going to want to divert its own R/D resources to help the team. In this kind of situation I think Brackley is going to come up short against the dedicated leading F1 teams. Michael may have to content himself with putting Rosberg in his place this season rather than winning championships.
In my book, he has already done exceptionally well and will only improve. So, yeah! I have no doubt.Quote:
Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1
Jenson is one of the best, the reigning champion, his Monaco Grand Prix 2009 weekend was equal to the best and he is the driver I support and have supported for ages.Quote:
Originally Posted by Valve Bounce
But there is a difference between supporting a driver and recognizing which driver standsout. Since Schumacher there is only one and he is Fernando Alonso.
And of course there was the unique Ron Dennis way of managing things............Quote:
Originally Posted by SGWilko
But I think in current racing all the drivers are being given a fair shake.
You spin the situation or you really are ignorant about what happens?Quote:
Originally Posted by Garry Walker
Alonso will go with the team strategy unless he reads things differently and as in Japan assumed command of his strategy and won iin a car that was also not supposed to.
Mclaren will NOT allow that with Hamilton - the radio communication is always that of Hamilton obeying not commanding.
Fernando Alonso unlike Hamilton has moral courage. He had the courage to stand by his friend Flavio Briatore in the face of all the world.
Hamilton was part of the troika from Mclaren who took the stiletto and slid it between the ribs of Dave Ryan.
Maybe one day Hamilton will rise to the level of Alonso and Schumacher - he's not there just yet and may never reach that level, but to do so he is going to have to have the courage to leave his extremely comfortable zone.
Spoilt children seldom do.
You mean aside from Alonso himself?Quote:
Originally Posted by Garry Walker
One name: ALAIN PROST
Hamilton knew that he was Dennis' "boy". Do you recall the "incident" - Hamilton causing problems in the pits in 2007? Hamilton only this year stated that he regretted it.
The proof is there and the history exists - naturally YOU could declare that Prost and Alonso are liars........
It was Ron Dennis' way and especially Alonso, when he left his "home" at Renault he correctly expected to be treated as the Schumacher slayer and twice world champion that he is.
Instead he was the usurper.
Which is why I think that if Dennis had still been in command of Mclaren F1, Jenson would NEVER have joined the team.Quote:
Originally Posted by tamburello
Under Witmarsh it is a better team for drivers alongside the faveored one's such as Lewis.
Being one of the many to contribute to the off topic nature of many of the posts, it hit me that nobody is really discussing the real topic of if Schumacher will suceed in his F1 comeback.
I think this needed to be said pages ago.... but....
POLL PLEASE! :)
Then everyone can continue their attempts at distracting people away from the topic (and no doubt suceeding), but we will at least have poll results to look at to find out what the majority forum view is.
Gosh!! After winning the WDC one year, now after just one race, "he don't stand out no more". :(Quote:
Originally Posted by Saint Devote
Oh! ye of little faith. Let the flame shine brightly, let the Bunsen conquer all, so that he standeth from the top of the podium once again!!
Hey wait a minute. My post #251 above clearly states that he already has. You can't count me as nobody. :( :bigcry:Quote:
Originally Posted by airshifter
No, but they were warned beforehand to ensure equal equipment by FISA.Quote:
Originally Posted by SGWilko
That was something that had never been required before, so save the Mclaren-are-holier-than-thou clap-trap because it is just that, utter clap-trap.
You only need to go and look at the aftermath of Hungary GP qualifying to see deliberate scuppering of a driver by the team. Hamilton's actions were never punished. That makes the management totally complicit.Quote:
Originally Posted by SGWilko
That you chose to ignore that speaks volumes. Open your eyes and your credibility would improve. Keep them closed and you remain what you are.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1
You are the one interpreting and spinning like mad.
I simply state the words that Dennis said.
Ron Dennis was the team boss, remember?
That is all that needs to be known.
Are you sure about that?Quote:
Originally Posted by henners88
His last contract extension with Ferrari was signed in 2003 and lasted until the end of 2006.
That's three years.
His initial Ferrari contract was for two years, but that was extended until 2001 in 1997.
That's more than three years.
Before the start of the 1988 season :confused: I thought the any issues of equality were raised by Prost, well into their two years together, who felt that Honda (not McLaren) were favouring Senna by providing him with better engines.Quote:
Originally Posted by tamburello
I recall that Balestre did make some noises about this but, as with Mosley and his officials in the garage, it was done for effect. Jean-Marie and Max had a great deal in common in that sense.
:confused: :crazy:Quote:
Originally Posted by tamburello
I have provided the exact quote, with link, to show that the version of RD's comment you provided was not entirely accurate. That is not interpretation or spin. It's fact.
RD's comments are open to interpretation and you are perfectly entitled to interpret them however you see fit, as are we all.
Note quite the clear evidence I was after, but if that's your best shot, tally ho.Quote:
Originally Posted by tamburello
Now, liken Hamilton overtaking Alonso in Hungary qually to this little tale;
http://www.autosport.com/features/article.php/id/2689Quote:
One of the funniest descriptions came from Mark Webber after he and Williams team-mate Nico Rosberg tangled on the opening lap of the 2006 Brazilian Grand Prix.
They'd lined up 11th and 13th on the grid, a couple of hundredths apart and, in one of those moments guaranteed to send Patrick Head's blood pressure stratospheric, they came together at Turn 4.
Clearly, they were at odds about what had happened.
Webber: "I was fighting with Jenson [Button] and Pedro [de la Rosa] going into Turn 1/2/3, but then I braked a bit late going into Turn 4 and found myself hit from behind."
Rosberg: "After the start I was trying to get out of traffic and get back the place I had just lost to Jenson, so I was close behind Mark. I think he braked a metre early and I hit him."
So, picture the scene. Webber's car has a damaged diffuser, rear wing and, very possibly, a cut or punctured tyre. Rosberg's has a damaged nose and front wing. And they both know that whoever is last back to the pits is going to be stacked behind the other. So they begin a less than gentlemanly race to get there first.
Meanwhile, Bernie's TV guys have realised there's been some drama and are busy teeing up action replays. They're pretty quick and by the time Webber and Rosberg are halfway round the lap, there it is on screen. So now the Williams pit can see what's happened. More to the point, they can see what's damaged.
Formula 1 doesn't follow the rules of the road, whereby if you hit someone up the chuff it's your fault no matter what. In F1 the logic is that the front wing is a lot quicker to change than the rear. And so out goes the radio message to both drivers: "Priority Nico, priority Nico."
But Webber is still in front and, as the man driven into, thinks "bugger that..."
Of course, in the Williams pit they are ready with Rosberg's new nose and will be less than impressed if Webber arrives first. Through Mergulho and Juncao they come, Rosberg now trying to drive around the outside of Webber. But Mark doesn't cede, forces Nico wide and he picks up a load of dust and junk on his tyres. Nico keeps his boot firmly planted but with the combination of dirty tyres and damaged front wing, he has the mother and father of a shunt on the outside of the quick left onto the main straight.
Does Webber think "oh dear, my esteemed team-mate appears to have had a rather hefty accident. I do hope he's okay and hasn't spoiled his hair"? He does not. His competitive persona is more Aussie rules football than ice dancing, so he thinks: "You beauty!"
Then, with perfect timing, the Williams pit comes back on the radio: "Priority Nico. Repeat, priority Nico."
Now all but in the pitlane, Webber presses his radio button with a certain degree of enthusiasm: "Don't think so, mate. Britney's in the wall."
It is called competive nature.
Didn't Wurz say Brawn's car was probably the most expensive one ever built in f1? That they've started working very early on it? That they've used up to 3 tunnels? That they've spent quite a lot of money before Honda decided to retire?Quote:
Originally Posted by henners88