Breakaway series is go!

Far be it from me to start a conspiracy but follow me here…

Bernie doesn’t REALLY own Formula One’s commercial rights. CVC Fund IV (75%) and Bambino Holdings (25% - whose beneficiaries are members of the Ecclestone family). Bernie is just the CEO.

What if Bernie, with the help of the FOTA teams, wanted to screw over his company? If Bernie, outside of FOM, got the rights to the break away series, he would not be obligated to CVC and the billions they invested. That would lead to cheaper costs for races and thus more money to go around to the teams and the new commercial rights holder, the old commerical rights holder (to paraphrase the Beatles).

Conversely, this battle royale between Max and FOCA could all just be a ruse to cut CVC and Bernie out of the picture. The cost of getting an F1 event has gone from less than $7 million in 2000 to starting at $25 million and beyond in 2008. France, Canada, USA, Portugal, even the UK refuse to pay these skyrocketing costs. Even China and Turkey are reluctant after the dismal turnouts.

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Originally Posted by F1Kurt

Far be it from me to start a conspiracy but follow me here…

Bernie doesn’t REALLY own Formula One’s commercial rights. CVC Fund IV (75%) and Bambino Holdings (25% - whose beneficiaries are members of the Ecclestone family). Bernie is just the CEO.

What if Bernie, with the help of the FOTA teams, wanted to screw over his company? If Bernie, outside of FOM, got the rights to the break away series, he would not be obligated to CVC and the billions they invested. That would lead to cheaper costs for races and thus more money to go around to the teams and the new commercial rights holder, the old commerical rights holder (to paraphrase the Beatles).

Conversely, this battle royale between Max and FOCA could all just be a ruse to cut CVC and Bernie out of the picture. The cost of getting an F1 event has gone from less than $7 million in 2000 to starting at $25 million and beyond in 2008. France, Canada, USA, Portugal, even the UK refuse to pay these skyrocketing costs. Even China and Turkey are reluctant after the dismal turnouts.

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Been there, done that :D

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Originally Posted by F1Kurt

Far be it from me to start a conspiracy but follow me here…

Bernie doesn’t REALLY own Formula One’s commercial rights. CVC Fund IV (75%) and Bambino Holdings (25% - whose beneficiaries are members of the Ecclestone family). Bernie is just the CEO.

What if Bernie, with the help of the FOTA teams, wanted to screw over his company? If Bernie, outside of FOM, got the rights to the break away series, he would not be obligated to CVC and the billions they invested. That would lead to cheaper costs for races and thus more money to go around to the teams and the new commercial rights holder, the old commerical rights holder (to paraphrase the Beatles).

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CVC would sue Bernie for every penny he had. And probably win.

V12, thank you for your thoughts! It crystallized what had been foggy suspicions in my head. Being from the U.S., I have watched AOW closely and attended both IRL and Champ Car events during the split. I would say that North Americans are fickle about their motorsports, and I suspect that there are more hardcore fans per capita in just about all of the EU. Before the split, the hardcore fan were able to draw the casuals into OW racing banking on the action on-track and the near-household names Andretti, Rahal, et al. It was a legit sport that could draw comparasons to marquee sporting events such as golf or the Preakness. After the split, Indy stood alone as the marquee AOW event, because the luster just wasn't strong enough to spread to Mid-Ohio, Watkins Glen, or any of the assorted ovals visited. Champ Car had Tracy and Bourdais, so they had a good rivalry and had others like Glock, because, despite the lack of manufacturers the feel of a European OW was there in all but location. Some of those locations were pretty bad, San Jose i think had a railroad crossing which was quite spectacular, but the whole thing sort of lent itself to the bizzare nature of the 'series that didn't run at Indy'.

With a world championship, there are a number of marquee grand prix circuits, and the FIA i think have no domain over a circuit a la Tony George. They probably have contracts, but contracts expire (or disappear in courts). Add to this mix a potentially more dedicated fan base for both series than the IRL could ever dream of, and the comparasons to the AOW spit just sort of don't hold up in my mind. I believe this is a far different game and in no more than 3 years a winner will be declared.

Here is solid proof these guys are serious . McLaren has said dick until now on this issue , and are "confident" about the idea now that it's out in the open .
It means that they will not return to a Mosely series .

This is from ITV:
McLaren boss Martin Whitmarsh says he is confident that if FOTA's proposed breakaway Formula 1 series goes ahead it will become the 'pinnacle' of motorsport and overshadow the FIA's world championship.


With no resolution in the bitter row between the teams' union and the governing body, the eight FOTA squads are pressing on with plans to launch a rival championship for 2010.


Whitmarsh believes that FOTA's action is ultimately a "positive" one for the sport


"We have taken a positive step to say that we are committing to race together," he said.



"We were heading, whatever happened it seemed, towards a split in the last couple of days.


"It could have been some of those teams within FOTA disappearing from the sport completely.


"Anyone who has been watching would have been very aware that a number of major manufacturers were almost inexorably leaving the sport, and that would have been highly damaging.


"We're inviting all those participating at the moment and any new entrant to participate in what we believe will be the pinnacle of motorsport."


He acknowledged that the teams must share the blame for some of F1's shortcomings in recent years.


"In Formula 1 in recent years there has not been the stability that we should have, there has not been the clarity of what the championship should be for the fans," Whitmarsh said.


"That's not pointing the finger at anyone, we've all been part of it.


"Some of us feel we've got to do a better job than we have in the past."


He added that it was too soon to confirm any precise details about FOTA's breakaway championship.


"It was a decision made last night, and I think therefore to talk about preparations ten hours later would be premature," Whitmarsh said.


"There have been lots of ideas and suggestiosn that have been thrown at the teams, but the fact is that there's a lot of work ahead of us.


"That's a challenge, and there are tinges of excitement and concern in it, because any new venture is just that.


"But there's been a lot of interest and support voiced for the teams, and we're open to any way forward."





Say good night , Max .

It's over for you , so it's time to decide whether you take F1 down with you .

The FIA were going to announce the final entry list for 2010 tomorrow, now what are they going to do?

They can't include the breakaway teams but they can't include new teams now and tell them later on they changed their minds either, they need to know now!

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Originally Posted by Bagwan

Here is solid proof these guys are serious . McLaren has said dick until now on this issue , and are "confident" about the idea now that it's out in the open .
It means that they will not return to a Mosely series .

This is from ITV:
McLaren boss Martin Whitmarsh says he is confident that if FOTA's proposed breakaway Formula 1 series goes ahead it will become the 'pinnacle' of motorsport and overshadow the FIA's world championship.


With no resolution in the bitter row between the teams' union and the governing body, the eight FOTA squads are pressing on with plans to launch a rival championship for 2010.


Whitmarsh believes that FOTA's action is ultimately a "positive" one for the sport


"We have taken a positive step to say that we are committing to race together," he said.



"We were heading, whatever happened it seemed, towards a split in the last couple of days.


"It could have been some of those teams within FOTA disappearing from the sport completely.


"Anyone who has been watching would have been very aware that a number of major manufacturers were almost inexorably leaving the sport, and that would have been highly damaging.


"We're inviting all those participating at the moment and any new entrant to participate in what we believe will be the pinnacle of motorsport."


He acknowledged that the teams must share the blame for some of F1's shortcomings in recent years.


"In Formula 1 in recent years there has not been the stability that we should have, there has not been the clarity of what the championship should be for the fans," Whitmarsh said.


"That's not pointing the finger at anyone, we've all been part of it.


"Some of us feel we've got to do a better job than we have in the past."


He added that it was too soon to confirm any precise details about FOTA's breakaway championship.


"It was a decision made last night, and I think therefore to talk about preparations ten hours later would be premature," Whitmarsh said.


"There have been lots of ideas and suggestiosn that have been thrown at the teams, but the fact is that there's a lot of work ahead of us.


"That's a challenge, and there are tinges of excitement and concern in it, because any new venture is just that.


"But there's been a lot of interest and support voiced for the teams, and we're open to any way forward."





Say good night , Max .

It's over for you , so it's time to decide whether you take F1 down with you .

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:up:

The whole of today's press conference is a very good and highly recommended read, if you want to know more about what the FOTA teams feel like!

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/76346

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Originally Posted by ioan

FOTA were reported to have got in contact with the MotoGP promoter to help them set up the new series. Why would they need Bernie?

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Probably just keeping their options open at this time.

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Originally Posted by RS

The FIA were going to announce the final entry list for 2010 tomorrow, now what are they going to do?

They can't include the breakaway teams but they can't include new teams now and tell them later on they changed their minds either, they need to know now!

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I suspect Max will still include the FOTA teams because he still believes that he has absolute dominion over the sport. The madman can't see that his time has come (and gone!)

I can see him a few years dow the road in an "old folk's home" still raving on about how he is in control of F1 while the nurse wipes the drool off his chin with his bib!

At least we'll have the prolonged court battles to entertain us during the off-season. ;)

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Originally Posted by Valve Bounce

Monaco is not a track - it consists of public roads. If Prince Rainier wants to run a second race on his roads there in a year, who is to stop him?

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It must be good to be a Prince! :cool:

ClarkFan

Monaco, with all due respect, unless it rains, isn't the most interesting race. I never call an F1 race 'boring' either.

If FOTA get Monaco, then in a way it's F1's gain, because they can replace it with a circuit where they can get a more interesting Grand Prix.

RS is right though, there's no backing out for either side after the entry list is published. The new teams need to know whether to build a car for 2010 or not.

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Originally Posted by Bagwan

Here is solid proof these guys are serious .

Say good night , Max .

It's over for you , so it's time to decide whether you take F1 down with you .

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I'll take all that with a pinch of salt until I can see proof of concrete contracts with tracks and TV channels sufficient to run an entire series. Until then its all posturing, though I agree that FOTA could pull it off if they wanted to. Lets all wait a few weeks to see how this pans out. As far as I can see there's nothing here that suggests that its anything more than a negotiation ploy at this point in time.

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Originally Posted by RS

The FIA were going to announce the final entry list for 2010 tomorrow, now what are they going to do?

They can't include the breakaway teams but they can't include new teams now and tell them later on they changed their minds either, they need to know now!

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They've suspended the announcement pending Max's court case. Despite saying there was no-way-nuh-huh they could suspend it as far as the 1st of June.

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Originally Posted by ClarkFan

It must be good to be a Prince! :cool:

ClarkFan

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Especially one who owns one of the most famous Casinos in the world. He has connections that Max or Bernie wouldn't want to mess with. :eek:

Oh crap. Even the NASCAR guys feel pity for F1.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/76349

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Originally Posted by gloomyDAY

Oh crap. Even the NASCAR guys feel pity for F1.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/76349

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They are just trying to seem important.
I've never watched one of their turn left races and never will.

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Originally Posted by woody2goody

Monaco, with all due respect, unless it rains, isn't the most interesting race. I never call an F1 race 'boring' either.

If FOTA get Monaco, then in a way it's F1's gain, because they can replace it with a circuit where they can get a more interesting Grand Prix.

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Try telling that to the sponsors.

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Originally Posted by tamburello

Try telling that to the sponsors.

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They already did and they are all on boat with the FOTA.

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Originally Posted by tamburello

Try telling that to the sponsors.

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I bet they'd invest more money if they attended a better race.

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Originally Posted by ClarkFan

It must be good to be a Prince! :cool:

ClarkFan

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Prince Rainier - mm, I thought he had died - don't people mean Prince Albert?

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Originally Posted by AndyRAC

Prince Rainier - mm, I thought he had died - don't people mean Prince Albert?

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yep Prince rainer died 4 years ago and was succeeded by Prince Albert II

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Originally Posted by ioan

They are just trying to seem important.
I've never watched one of their turn left races and never will.

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You got to do it live from the infield after and during some heavy drinking, u ain't lived until then, dude

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Originally Posted by markabilly

You got to do it live from the infield after and during some heavy drinking, u ain't lived until then, dude

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You got to be kidding. I won't pay a ticket from Europe to the US in order to get drunk and watch a WWNascar 'race'! :D

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/m...k-1711491.html

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Prodrive, Lola and N Technology, all of them refused entries, rubbed their hands and made a beeline to FOTA representatives.

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Originally Posted by Ghostwalker

yep Prince rainer died 4 years ago and was succeeded by Prince Albert II

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I didn't know that :(
Poor guy!!

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Originally Posted by Valve Bounce

I didn't know that :(
Poor guy!!

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Poor guy? He lived a life of luxury and glamour, married a movie star, and died at the age of 81. I'd say he lived a pretty fulfilled life! :D

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/76417

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Brawn confirmed that ironically motor racing's governing body would likely be the regulator of the new series.
"You would need a regulatory body," he said. "In fact ironically I think the agreement with the European Commission is that the FIA have to offer to do that to any competitive series that wants to set up, so the FIA have to offer to be at least the regulatory body.
"They may not be the body that sets the rules, they can be determined by some other mechanism. But if you want, the FIA can run the series for you. They can provide the stewards, the scruntineers and things of that nature. So that's available if FOTA wanted to take it up."
Although Brawn's stance appears to point towards there being no plans to get the FIA back around the table to discuss saving F1 next year, other team bosses are more conciliatory in their approach.
McLaren boss Martin Whitmarsh said it would be foolish of teams not to accept an offer they are happy with if it was put forward by the FIA.
"I don't think FOTA rules anything out," said Whitmarsh. "At the moment, as we said earlier in the week, the team were presented with a deadline and, faced with that deadline, the teams did request that there was more time to find a solution.
"So within that deadline the decision was taken, but I think the teams are open to discuss with anybody how we go motor racing next year."

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Originally Posted by ioan

You got to be kidding. I won't pay a ticket from Europe to the US in order to get drunk and watch a WWNascar 'race'! :D

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JPM did, and the rest was history---he loves being one of the most fit drivers out there in nastycar

his off track conditiong program involves strenous use of right arm to eat and drink...

Besides look again, I did not say anything about watching the race.....too hard to see such anyway when looking through beer goggles :s mokin:

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Originally Posted by woody2goody

I bet they'd invest more money if they attended a better race.

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Not a chance. Sponsors don't give a &#%@ about racing - they are all about image and setting. That is the lesson BE learned 20+ years ago. A close race vs. entertaining clients on a yacht in Monaco harbor? No contest, the yacht wins 1000/1000.

ClarkFan

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Originally Posted by ClarkFan

Not a chance. Sponsors don't give a &#%@ about racing - they are all about image and setting. That is the lesson BE learned 20+ years ago. A close race vs. entertaining clients on a yacht in Monaco harbor? No contest, the yacht wins 1000/1000.

ClarkFan

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yep, just look at irl and champ car................who won?

the indy 500

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Originally Posted by markabilly

JPM did, and the rest was history---he loves being one of the most fit drivers out there in nastycar

his off track conditiong program involves strenous use of right arm to eat and drink...

Besides look again, I did not say anything about watching the race.....too hard to see such anyway when looking through beer goggles :s mokin:

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:up: :laugh:

OK, three weeks til the next race. Hands up who thinks there'll be a reconciliation by this point?

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Originally Posted by christophulus

OK, three weeks til the next race. Hands up who thinks there'll be a reconciliation by this point?

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Do we hear silence...

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Originally Posted by Flavio Briattore

"We are using so many words, and now is enough," he told AUTOSPORT. "We have made our statement and this is very clear - that is it.

"We will have it [the breakaway championship] ready in the next few weeks. We have been planning for several weeks already. We want a Formula 1 championship organised by FOTA. There has been no change in the last two days. I do not want to make anymore statements."

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Originally Posted by John Howett

"I think if you look at the overwhelming support we have got from the public, ultimately now there has to be a fairly significant move from the federation," Howett told AUTOSPORT in reaction to Mosley's comments.

"Overall we have a clear position and I think we made numerous concessions to achieve some sort of compromise. Now, we have made the decision, and at the moment we are moving forwards very positively on that vector."

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Originally Posted by Martin Whitmarsh

"FOTA has a number of meetings next week and we've got to look at the process by which we appoint people who are selling the media, looking at the way in which we engage circuits. There has been a lot of interest in working with us, and given our situation we are obliged to go forward with those arrangements and that planning."

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http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/76458

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Originally Posted by Stefano Domenicali

I think that what we said is that on our side, we want to go ahead with the project. We want to show that we are ready, and with regard to the FIA, it is not something that I can say. He is the president of the FIA, and he will take the decision if he wants to take it. I don't have any other answer on that.

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http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/76455

I see no reason at all to be merry about this potential implosion of the world championship.

Neither side will succeed and both will suffer. No sport has flourished after being broken up.

This is just like any civil war a dark day in the history of motor racing.

Kimi Raikonnen summed it up when he said that this is about egotictical individuals and powergrabbing.

What the end result is at this stage nobody can know at this stage, but destruction of f1, the championship that decides the world driving champion, being celebrated by anyone makes me wonder about their reasoning ability.

http://www.motorsport.com/news/artic...D=333576&FS=F1
FOTA's 'New Formula' eyes 17-race calendar

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Rumours that plans for FOTA's breakaway championship are moving forwards abounded on Sunday.
In the paddock of the Silverstone circuit, even a possible name for the series emerged - 'New Formula' - as well as a potential 17-race 2010 calendar.
Former F1 venues including Buenos Aires, Mexico City, Jerez, Imola, Montreal, Indianapolis, Silverstone, Magny Cours and Adelaide were listed on the theoretical calendar, published by the German [color=#0033cc !important]news[/color] agency SID.
Current tracks were also mentioned: Monaco, Silverstone, Monza, Abu Dhabi, Singapore and Suzuka, while potential new venues are Jerez, Portimao, the Lausitzring, [color=#0033cc !important]Surfer's[/color] Paradise (Australia) and even the Finnish capital Helsinki.

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http://www.motorsport.com/news/artic...D=333583&FS=F1
Gold Coast confirms breakaway race interest

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Gold Coast mayor Ron Clarke has confirmed reports that Surfers Paradise is keen to host a round of FOTA's breakaway series.

Rumours of a 17-race calendar for 2010 did the rounds at Silverstone on Sunday, with Surfer's Paradise as well as former Australian Grand Prix venue Adelaide both mentioned.
It is believed that Melbourne would be unable to host a round due to its exclusive contracts with Bernie Ecclestone's FOM.

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Originally Posted by Saint Devote

I see no reason at all to be merry about this potential implosion of the world championship.

Neither side will succeed and both will suffer. No sport has flourished after being broken up.

This is just like any civil war a dark day in the history of motor racing.

Kimi Raikonnen summed it up when he said that this is about egotictical individuals and powergrabbing.

What the end result is at this stage nobody can know at this stage, but destruction of f1, the championship that decides the world driving champion, being celebrated by anyone makes me wonder about their reasoning ability.

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If FOTA breaks away the pinnacle of motorsport will travel with them. F1 will become not much more than a spec car series. I'd gladly celebrate racing with rules set by those supporting racing with millions and millions of dollars ever year, rather than the way it is now, with the teams having no say for the greater profit of the bumbling idiots running the show.

I have no problems with my reasoning abilities. It's been clear to me for years that Max and the FIA push forward with stupid ideas that cost the teams money, and the teams finally got sick of it.

Personally, while I do not want to see a break up - I support the FIA / FOA and not FOTA at all.

F1 and the drivers world championship will not be FOTA no matter who is there.

No team is bigger than the sport and even if a Ferrari is not present then that will be their own decision.

Briatore has been bucking for something like this for a long time. He sees himself as another Bernie I think.

I attended the South African Grand Prix in 1981 where no Mclaren or Ferrari was present and, won by Carlos Reutemann in the Williams it was as enjoyable.

F1 is suposed to be a constructors and drivers championship and with teams such as Williams and new teams such as USF1 and Cosworth it will be.

Teams that are RACING teams and not looking to sell automobiles and spending ridiculous amounts of money. Maybe if there is a break up f1 will return to the great days when it was not dominated by the manufacturers but by racing teams constructors. And the drivers were kewl dudes without pretention that would mix with the fans.

Why not have drivers such as Pantano, Bruno, di Grassi and Davidson - maybe even Bourdais and Sato and Paffett who will establish themselves in f1 and be given a chance to race?

And if Monte Carlo will only go where Ferrari is, then let them. New tracks will be established and a new f1 - back to the future - will flourish.

I support Bernie. I always have and I will not change now.

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Originally Posted by airshifter

If FOTA breaks away the pinnacle of motorsport will travel with them. F1 will become not much more than a spec car series. I'd gladly celebrate racing with rules set by those supporting racing with millions and millions of dollars ever year, rather than the way it is now, with the teams having no say for the greater profit of the bumbling idiots running the show.

I have no problems with my reasoning abilities. It's been clear to me for years that Max and the FIA push forward with stupid ideas that cost the teams money, and the teams finally got sick of it.

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F1 governed by the FIA and run by Bernie made a lot of money for people such as Briatore.

All they had to do was turn up and race.

Lets see how they do. Bernie makes it look easy and exactly how will FOTA guarantee that their manufacturers will not witdraw from the series? Renault have come and gone a couple of times for example.

Teams, such as Williams live by being racing teams. Real racing teams.