Tony George ousted from IMS

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Originally Posted by indycool

Ken instantly mentioned that I brought up the Phoenix attendance figures Robin used in various stories and it was something like 8-10 different ones. He worked for CART at the time. He's back to being a journalist now. But the very point Ken made about me jumping on RM's attendance figures at Phoenix indicates others have memories of before, too. And again, I give him credit for the "scoop" and I trust what I presume to be his sources, although at least some could be second hand.

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On the articles he wrote for CART, he was basically a promotional writer and had to uphold a much different set of guidlines in holding to the series' objectives. But even while at CART, he always remained with the Indy Star and later SPEEDTV.com, and his articles there were very different from what he did for CART. At the Indy Star and SPEED, he had to maintain his traditional journalistic ethical guidelines in his reporting. Miller has always been able to maintain that distinction his CART writing and his general reporting, and sometimes to his detriment, as was the case when he talked at length about Champ Car's unorganized mess of a couple of seasons ago at Spring Training at Laguna Seca on the SPEED site. This blunt article pissed off The Three Amigos, especially Kevin Kalkhoven reportedly, and Miller was booted from Champ Car. The article raised the back hair of the series and some fans.

But he wasn't wrong.

Chap, you just presented his conflicts of interest as a journalist at that time.

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Originally Posted by indycool

Chap, you just presented his conflicts of interest as a journalist at that time.

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That's not hard to do. But the big picture in this is the series is in DEEP trouble. Pointing out Robin Miller's flaws and or conflicts of interest does not change a thing.

Blancvino, all I'm saying is let's not escalate facts based on supposition, emotion, agenda or excitement. On a business basis, we're talking a difference of one hundred million dollars and that, to ANYONE, is a LOT of money.

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Originally Posted by indycool

Blancvino, all I'm saying is let's not escalate facts based on supposition, emotion, agenda or excitement. On a business basis, we're talking a difference of one hundred million dollars and that, to ANYONE, is a LOT of money.

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I don't think Robin Miller is doing that, IC. Yes, as I said, $100 million is a ton of money, but it's all relative. In the larger context of 600 or 700 million, not as much. Did RM have a conflict of interest when he was at CCWS? That's certainly one way of looking at it. But looking at many of his articles for CCWS, they were mostly articles about certain drivers or on occasion, various technical matters within the series. When he reported on a breaking story or contribute independent commentary, he would do so through the Indy Star or SPEEDTV.com. He seemed to do a pretty good job maintaining a different writing style for both. But I wouldn't reccommend that he repeat that.

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Originally Posted by indycool

Chap, you just presented his conflicts of interest as a journalist at that time.

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Conflict of interest. Lot of that going around on both sides since this whole mess began.

IC...you know I like you even when we agree to disagree, but this 100 million dollar difference is really burying the lead here. You admitted Robin got the nuts of the story right, leave it be. Robin got the story from his sources, and any numbers he may have gotten had to come from those sources. He wasn't making the number or guesstimating when he had the rest of the story.

The whole argument is moot. Lets just say Tony blew a lot more money than he took in, and that is why he is gone.

The fact that he didn't know what he was doing in marketing and running a race series wouldn't have met diddly if somehow there was black ink on the Hulman family's books. There wasn't and THAT is the reason he is walking. Mari couldn't take losing any more money apparently.

The sad reality is that as nice a man as Tony George can seem to be, and as nice a job he has done at renovating and innovating new events for the IMS, the sad part is he still spent a lot of money to win a war that didn't need to be fought.

AS for Robin's conflicts of interest, the fact is he dumped all over the Amigo's when they deserved it, regardless of the work he was doing on the PR side of things. Robin never let his desire to bust a good story get in the way of his pay check. THAT says to me more about the man's credibility than the fact he was doing PR work for CCWS in the first place.

While Robin was being paid by CART, he was trashing the IRL, Mark. Go back and look at some of his stuff. I am NOT trashing over this. As ypu and I have both said, Robin scooped the world and had the gist of the story right. What I AM saying is that $600 million from an unidentified source becoming $700 million for an unidentified source in two days doesn't count as an absolute for me.

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Originally Posted by indycool

While Robin was being paid by CART, he was trashing the IRL, Mark. Go back and look at some of his stuff. I am NOT trashing over this. As ypu and I have both said, Robin scooped the world and had the gist of the story right. What I AM saying is that $600 million from an unidentified source becoming $700 million for an unidentified source in two days doesn't count as an absolute for me.

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It's not supposed to be an absolute. Remember what I told you above? Each time Robin Miller gave a figure, he gives the disclaimer "estimated". That is journalistic lingo for saying he admits to not having a precise numeric figure. This is as close as he can determine from his undisclosed sources. C'mon, IC, you're kind of picking nits here, looking at the broad picture.

Okay......it'll be interesting how this number progresses.

Fair enough. Keep an eye on it as I will, I'm sure we'll speak again if it changes...

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Originally Posted by indycool

Okay......it'll be interesting how this number progresses.

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Nothing changes, I see. Spin, spin, spin.

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Originally Posted by indycool

Okay......it'll be interesting how this number progresses.

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I don't see how the number can ever be confirmed, as a private company they are under no obligation to release such information. Estimate is the best you can get. How about if we put the figure at 600 million plus or minus 100 million.

Sounds fair to me.

IC... do you have any other examples besides pheonix?


...and....Robin has used more than a couple #'s regarding pheonix attendance , specifically the 1995 race..... but i dont remember him fudgeing them after being employed by CC....seems to me it was all prior (late 90's and early 2000's)....I think you, IC, are in fat the one playing a bit lose here IC....

That went back and forth long. long ago, Ken.

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Originally Posted by indycool

That went back and forth long. long ago, Ken.

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OK...

but do you have any other examples of robin useing creative #'s

You see, on May 27 TG denied, denied, denied there was anything happening to his positions that he was currently occupying.

Robin Miller took some guff from Tony's loyal followers.

30 days later RM was right on all accounts.

Except that he can't confirm if IMS burned $500, 600, 700 million or more.

Tony George plays dumb and lies to everyone a month prior to the inevitable - and Robin Miller is still the villain of Indianapolis media.

All done way back when they were relevant, Ken.

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Originally Posted by indycool

All done way back when they were relevant, Ken.

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for example

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Originally Posted by methanolHuffer

You see, on May 27 TG denied, denied, denied there was anything happening to his positions that he was currently occupying.

Robin Miller took some guff from Tony's loyal followers.

30 days later RM was right on all accounts.

Except that he can't confirm if IMS burned $500, 600, 700 million or more.

Tony George plays dumb and lies to everyone a month prior to the inevitable - and Robin Miller is still the villain of Indianapolis media.

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I get a big kick out of the righteous indignation from some of the media hacks accusing Miller of things they themselves have been doing for years.