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Both NASCAR's and Mayfield's reputations absolutely come into play in this whole deal. NASCAR is well know for selectively enforcing rules from it's Etch-A-Sketch rulebook and Jeremy has never had a problem burning bridges behind himself. Regardless of the outcome of this thing neither of them will win in the court of public opinion. Jeremy, however, has a lot more to lose than NASCAR does.
Forgive me for being skeptical, but right now the evidence is that on the first sample, which was tested twice, Methamphetamine was found. When NASCAR tried to do another random test this Monday, Mayfield jumped through hoops to try and avoid it. Again, makes me skeptical. If the argument is that NASCAR is an evil entity that will use crooked labs to make Jeremy look guilty, OK. But short of that being the case, I'd say Jeremy is hiding drug use. IMO that doesn't mean he shouldn't have a chance to go to rehab and then get back into business with random testing fairly often.
Latest from Mayfield, from Jayski:
Mayfield defends himself in interview; considering selling team: UPDATE: Suspended Sprint Cup driver Jeremy Mayfield has broken his silence, vehemently denying allegations of drug use and adamantly defending himself from recent NASCAR claims in an exclusive interview with ESPN. "Every time there's an action [by NASCAR], there's going to be a reaction. From here on out," Mayfield said in a phone interview Wednesday from his home in Statesville, N.C. "I try to be nice. I try to be respectful to them. I try to do everything right. But I'm not getting drug through the mud no more." Mayfield repeated his stance that he never took methamphetamine. He also said he no longer consumes alcohol, largely due to the fact, he said, his father was a "bad alcoholic." Asked if he had ever taken illegal drugs, Mayfield responded, "What are you calling illegal? I've drank beer. I don't drink beer at all anymore. I don't drink. Don't do anything." He said he feels as though NASCAR is attempting to make an example of him. "I feel like that's exactly what they thought I was going to be. Exactly. To a 'T,'" Mayfield said. "Now, all the sudden, Brian's [France, NASCAR Chairman] coming back saying, 'Well, we have positive tests all the time.' Well, if it's a zero-tolerance policy, how in the hell do you have people testing positive all the time? "Then he comes back and says there's a list. I forget what big word he used -- an exhaustive list of drugs. Everybody in the world has asked him why the drivers don't have a list. What did he say? Now there's a list -- an exhaustive list. Right? Where's it at?" Mayfield broke his silence in response to accusations by NASCAR on Wednesday that he had purposely delayed taking a drug test by more than seven hours on Monday. The comments infuriated Mayfield, who said he was sent on a "wild goose chase," and was given just 18 minutes to get to a NASCAR-appointed lab to undergo testing. "I wasn't running or hiding from anybody, because I don't have to," he said.(ESPN.com)(7-9-2009)
He said, they said, right?
Not quite. Nascar has already effectively admitted they were wrong in the collection process. Drivers who were interviewed last week said the starting at Sonoma the "collection" went from 5-10 minutes in the past to about half an hour now. They are now using the "I'm taking these drugs" forms they were supposed to be using along (no more telephone tag). (The drivers didn't mention if the cups they were given were sealed & sterilized and then sealed in their presence, but Nascar would have to be crazy not to at this point. I suspect the Medical Review Official will see that Federal guidelines are followed to.)Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaparral66
NASCAR has "effectively" admitted they were wrong in how they collected samples? How so? Have a link to any articles? I'd like to see that. All I've read so far is that they were following "proper procedure", whatever that is.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonesi
This is my whole point about this whole thing, all we've got is NASCAR saying one thing, and Mayfield another. I don't think we'll come close to the truth until this deal goes to trial, where specific - and even uncomfortable - questions will have to be asked so we can get the real story. Mayfield says combining Adderall and Claritin caused the appearence of methamphetamines. NASCAR's head sawbones says that's not possible. We need an independent authority, in a court of law, to confirm either way.
I haven't seen anything written about it on the web. It was on the prerace show before the Daytona race. Don't know if TNT or any other source has it on the web.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaparral66
From what I have been told, drivers and other competitiors were required at the beginning of the season to submit a list of any prescription and OTC meds they were taking on a regular basis. Any variation to those was supposed to be reported to Dr Black and NASCAR. All prospective competitors were supposedly tested before the start of the 2009 season.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonesi
I can't imagine any medical professional collecting samples in anything other than a sterilized collection cup and following the protocol for proper collection. I haven't read or heard anywhere who is doing the collections at the track. Typically it's a process in which the "employer", in this case NASCAR, takes any part in the process. Everyone who I know who's subject to testing has their samples collected by agents of the testing lab.....period. HIPPA laws are extremely stringent in these sorts of situations.
Jeremy and NASCAR can and are spinning their sides of the story. Somewhere in the court process the truth will be revealed. Whether or not we'll hear about it is another story.
Anyone want to post what page and paragraph of "Nascar's Substance Abuse Policy" this rule is located? Because I went back through it and I can't find it. (It's a pdf of a photo copy so it's not word searchable, and one of the worst written rules I've ever seen.)Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparky1329
Also without a list what needs to be reported? Are they really supposed to call in everytime they swig some Pepto-Bismol?
On Wind Tunnel last week there was a lawyer on with Dave DeSpain discussing this case. He didn't say much about the Mayfield case. But he also represents a several drivers, including Jimmy Johnson. He said that Johnson suffers from a lot of alergies. He said that Johnson spends a lot of time reporting to NASCAR and discussing with them the perscriptions and over the counter drugs that he's taking.
Wonder why Mayfield couldn't have done the same?
Correction to this sentence:
"Typically it's a process in which the "employer", in this case NASCAR, takes any part in the process."
S/B "Typically it's a process in which the "employer", in this case NASCAR, does NOT take any part in the process."
My knowledge in this area is limited to the people I know. My husband was subject to random testing as a condition of his employment before he retired. The testing lab had a small motorhome manned by a staff that was credentialed and trained for the purpose of drug testing to satisfy insurance company requirements. The mobile lab would be on site and waiting for employees to arrive to report for work. Those who came up on the testing list had to visit the mobile lab on their arrival and give the staff a urine sample. I would hope that this type of process is and has been used by NASCAR since they implemented their testing policy.
I only know what I've been told by a NASCAR competitor who has been subjected to drug testing since the beginning of the season.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonesi
If you had the opportunity to drive in NASCAR Sprint Cup, with it's ability to make a driver a wealthy and famous person, and you knew that there was randon drug testing, would you not at least err on the side of caution and talk to the NASCAR staff concerning what you are taking.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonesi
BTW, why is Mayfield using that quack from Texas and not having his Doctor that diagnosed and is treating his ADD working this issue? When was his ADD diagnosed? So far it looks like it was some time subsequent to him hiring his lawyer.
mayfield tests positive again???
http://msn.foxsports.com/nascar/story/9787800
mayfield must have a loving relationship with his mother-in-law. probably about the same as anyone else he has been associated with. She states that she has seen Mayfield take meth 30 times over the years.
Oh boy.Quote:
Originally Posted by muggle not
..this gets messier by the minute. Now Mayfield's family is being torn down the middle...
He should have contacted TV go with cameras and went to have a DRUG TEST LIVE...
His PR guy should have had the brains to do that...
OTHERWISE MAYFIELD IS A ON DRUGS AND HOOKED
This guy is a piece of sh!t - they should drag him around the track til he is gone !! There is NO place in motorsports for drug users - period.
I agree.....so long as it's proven beyond reasonable doubt that a) the test was conducted properly (ie no ability to tamper) and b) everyone tested was told prior to the test what the banned susbstances were and given the opportunity to report and prescribed medications that could legitimately contain those substances.
The lack of clarity from both sides makes neither side look good.
As I said above, NASCAR needs to send Jeremy to rehab and then do regular testing. He's an addict and is displaying all the symptoms of it. One issue I do have with NASCAR here though is that apparently they have drivers test positive "all the time". That was mentioned by I believe a NASCAR lawyer in a recent AP story. Apparently they only pull the trigger on specific cases like Jeremy's when they have reason to believe the driver is not going to clean up. Several on Jeremy's team tested positive in the early part of the year, and that may have been part of their decision. IMO they need to take judgement like that out of the equation, and if you test positive it's made public and you're benched. Jeremy shouldn't be in a car and neither should any of the others.
He needs help.
It's not a binary yes/no thing. A lot of drugs/medication/chemicals are in most peoples bodies, but in much smaller doses. A lot a drugs the body creates itself, in small amounts. The medications suplement what the body isn't doing right. If you have breathing problems and use an inhaler, you probably will test positive for steroids, etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by NickFalzone
The latest on Jayski, says the drug tests Mayfield took (about an hour) before & after the Nascar one, came back clean,and he has about 16 clean tests (about every 3-4 days) too from different labs. He also said Nascar/Aegis is refusing to send the B sample to a lab of his choicing. I think when this is over Aegis may lose their certification, and Mayfield may get a big chunk of Nascar.
The only thing he needs as the saying goes is: "Lawyers, guns & money."Quote:
Originally Posted by theugsquirrel
If he's got a bunch of clean tests, it doesn't have to be on video. Something wrong is going on at Aegis.Quote:
Originally Posted by youtellme
NASCAR's testing agency has heavily criticized the way in which Mayfield's personally chosen lab handled their own test, and say it is inadmissable in court. They also said Mayfield and his lawyer have not given the B-sample to a NASCAR approved testing lab, despite several requests. The reality here is that NASCAR's lab has found Mayfield to be positive on 2 separate occasions now. Are we really meant to believe that the problem is that NASCAR's testing lab is routinely getting false positive results on Mayfield? And that his relative that says she seen him doing meth is also lying? Both of those ARE possible, and that's what Jeremy is claiming, but that's a real load to believe. We're talking a major conspiracy here to take him out of NASCAR.
What I find interesting is how people try to claim Aegis has done something wrong just because they don't like the results. They should just do a little research. Unlike some labs, Aegis has many licenses and accreditations from organizations like the DEA, and others. It is used by the courts themselves, police departments and medical examiners. Their work has been tested in the legal system and they are often used for court ordered testing. All of this makes the claim they screwed up very hard to accept. It also makes the court decision about who to use to test a B sample interesting because they would tend to use Aegis themselves.Quote:
Originally Posted by NickFalzone
In one report, Mayfield's team did mention a lab they used this time. A little research shows they are a medical testing lab doing a lot of routine medical testing, but not a lot of drug testing. Their web site shows no licenses but they do have many links for investor relations, which make you wonder what they focus on. The fact that Mayfield's attorneys didn't challenge the test results the first time, just the interpretation, and the fact they said they were looking for a lab that could duplicate the protocols and procedures used by Aegis strongly suggests they know Aegis is highly respected and the testing is not flawed.
Something wrong is with mayfield. He needs serious help. The meth addiction may help explain his past actions that cost him 2 rides.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonesi
That won't stop a meth addiction.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonesi
Now his Step Mom says she has seen him do Meth about 30 times.
Mayfield says Step Mom is a HO and she is in trouble for shooting his Dad.
She is trying to do a plea snitch on him for good time.
This is like a dang Soap Box Opra
Jerry...Jerry...Jerry
In my opinion,Mayfield is done with Nascar.There is way too many issues that needs to be resolved and it wont happen.How many times does an athlete/driver in this case fail a drug test and still sue to get back in?This is just one can of worms that isnt going to go away.
this country is going to hell in a lead sled. Not only should race drivers be banned for life but any athlete period end of story!! Sh!t even the Islams are holding a conference in Chicago as I type. We have turned in to a sad sack of sh!t. And somebody thinks this guy need rehab - he needs to go see Dr Winchester !!Quote:
Originally Posted by NickFalzone
This is obviously serious, if Mayfield tested positive again. But now, with so many charges and counter charges going back and forth, I'm not sure who to believe. I still want the court case to proceed, so the truth hopefully will come out so we can all understand without doubt. This is the only way we can get at the truth.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonesi
You taking the same Meth Jeremy is on? The man tested positive with one of the most reputable drug labs in the country. They specialize in drug tests. The second test was a WITNESSED test in that they WATCHED the man provide his sample. The B sample of that test is still sealed awaiting Mayfield's lawyer to agree to a lab that is agreeable to both parties and/or the judge. In that sample they will find the same result the A sample provided which was that Jeremy was on Meth. What is more, it took 7 hours to get this sample, way past the 2 hour window that is to be acceptable under any drug testing program. Mayfield couldn't find the lab, the NASCAR lab guys came to his HOUSE, witnessed the test but only an an hour plus delay while Mayfield chugged water (THAT shows up in the A sample of this second positive test).
Aegis is used by goverments and all sorts of reputable companies for this work. NASCAR has NOTHING to gain by this, they have taken a huge PR hit from naive people thinking they are out to get Mayfield. They were NOT out to get him, until he tested positive, which we ALL know we don't want on the race track.
NASCAR's only mistake with any of this having the first positive test B sample tested again by AEGIS. THAT isn't happening in this second test.
The man is taking meth people. TWO test have proven that. This isn't some mixup, the man had 300 TIMES the acceptable amount if it was a simple mix of drugs. It is well known people who have tried to hide meth habits have used Adderol as a masking agent, but 300 times the acceptable level says he was taking Adderol and Clartin by the box load....which obviously is bad too.
NASCAR will win this, not because they have the money or resources to grind this dumb@ss down, but they will win because they are RIGHT.
CASE CLOSED.
Well...maybe not..go one with your conspiracy threories and half cocked ideas.....
His "tests" were done by a lab of his lawyers choosing, not one by the way that does drug screens. His tests were not "witnessed" in that we have no idea if he didn't take a "whizzinator" into the test with him. How do we know that is his urine? When you are in a drug testing program such as Aegis runs, they have you go in after being searched for such things, and the only thing you take into that toilet is your clothes and your body. There is a protocol. Did any of Jermey's "negative" tests have this same chain of evidence and procedure followed? How we do know this?Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonesi
What bothers me is you don't hold Mayfield to the same standards you hold NASCAR to. Jeremy is a big lying fool....and is showing a lot of the classic denial's most addicts of any drug use, in that the world is out to get me, you are all wrong, I will be vindicated.....you know and you have heard it before. Riddle me this tho Batman, when was the last time you saw a major athlete who tested positive in ANY sport get his positive test overturned? Think about it......it HASNT HAPPENED. The lawyers make lots of noise about procedure, claim tampering, claim vindictive prosecution but never provide any proof.
We saw it all here in 1988 in the aftermath of the Ben Johnson steroid scandal where he lost his 100m gold medal in Seoul. There was a national inquiry on all of it, and I have to say much of what I am seeing now is the same lame defense Johnson's lawyers tried to throw at the courts when Ben was fighting. It all came out in the inquiry afterward on drugs in sport that there is no real defense for taking drugs. There is also no way a false positive shows up in two separate tests 3 months apart.
NASCAR SPIKED THE 2ND TEST!!!
He and his lawyers got LABCORP of America to do a test and he passed.
Read ALL ABOUT IT!!
CHARLOTTE -- Jeremy Mayfield feels some sense of vindication.
"We’re very excited about the results," he told NewsChannel 36 after an independent lab, LabCorp, sent results to Mayfield’s attorneys showing he tested negative for meth. Those results are from a urine sample he gave within an hour of giving a separate urine sample to NASCAR, though NASCAR's lab results claim Mayfield tested positive for the drug.
Asked how both tests can come back with two different results Mayfield said, "That's what we’d like to know and that's what we’re gonna find out."
Mayfield's attorney suggests NASCAR might be "spiking" the sample.
And Mayfield agrees. "It’s for sure a spiked sample," he said.
Mayfield says his lawyers have had him tested repeatedly, and the only samples that have come up positive for meth are the ones NASCAR has tested. "They are hell-bent on proving Jeremy Mayfield is wrong. They keep digging themselves a hole [and it] keeps getting bigger and bigger," said John Buric who is representing Mayfield.
Excellent analysis. It would seem many posters here and in the media want to go after NASCAR because they can't see how someone would logically continue to use drugs when they knew they were going to be tested or knew they might endanger other people or knew it could destroy their own life. Some wonder how he could have been using for years as some have claimed and no one around racing knew, or no one turned him in.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark in Oshawa
The problem with those arguments is applying logic to the behavior of a addicted or abusing person. Normal logic does not apply to their behavior.
Anyone who has had the misfortune to spend time around an addicted person knows Mayfield's behavior is entirely typical of an addicted person. They often use for years with only very close family having any idea, and even family can be fooled. Most are "high functioning" and have an outwardly normal appearance and hold down jobs and responsible positions in society. Very few fit the stereotype of a "drug user" as shown on TV. They are your next door neighbor, your co-worker, your local fireman, even your doctor. A highly respected doctor I had as a kid suddenly stopped practicing. Later it was learned he was a morphine addict and had been for years and eventually went to jail on a drug charge. Families rarely turn in an abuser as they frequently blame themselves for some failure that drove the user to drugs or alcohol. The typically only speak out when they situation becomes public or in the legal system. That often happens when there is a history of drug or alcohol abuse in the family. Even Jeremy has admitted his father was an alcoholic, a fact mostly hidden at the time of his father's death. There is a lot of family shame.
When faced with confrontation, they deny, make up stories, almost always blame someone else, typically the family (who already feel guilty), attack any authority that tries to limit them, such as an employer (NASCAR in this case), or even the legal system. They do everything possible to divert attention away for their own issues because their only goal is get people to leave them alone so they can continue using. They research how to "cheat" the tests (all of which fail) They almost always claim someone is out to get them, and in a sense they are right. People are trying to change their behavior. They don't want to change, and have no concern over any damage they leave in their wake. Often their stories take on a bizarre twist, like Mayfield claiming he had 15 negative tests. Where are those results? The one his legal team released is a joke.
If you have never been there, this probably makes no sense, and you are right, their behavior makes no sense. If you have been there, this is all very familiar and sad for all involved.
There are no winners in this, other than perhaps the other drivers and fans. To me, their safety is much more important than the plight of a single driver who has done much over the years to destroy his own career. I don't even care about the credibility of NASCAR. Someone should tape Brian France's mouth shut and they should just let the courts handle this.
If you believe that, I've got a bridge to sell. There's a reason why NASCAR says this Mayfield approved test can't be used in a court of law. Several reasons actually. It's on Jeremy to prove his innocence to NASCAR, not the other way around as much as he and his lawyer's would like to muddy the waters with clearly a test they were able to get around, through hook or by crook. "Spiking" the sample on several occasions by NASCAR is highly unlikely to the point of being delusional. But using a personally selected lab because they have less stringent guidelines that you can get around (ie a whizzinator, or whatever else) makes perfect sense for someone trying to dodge a positive.Quote:
Originally Posted by youtellme
This is the Lab that Jeremy had perform the test for him.
http://www.labcorpsucks.com/
Some very good points here, given me a lot to think about. But I still think this needs to go to court. Mayfield is certainly not the sharpest tool in the shed, and NASCAR is no angel in disguise. We need to get all the dirty linen out in court, and have a test done by a lab the court trusts, and on its timetable, not NASCAR's or Mayfield's.Quote:
Originally Posted by beachbum