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It was Dixon who was on the inside and moved to the outside lane where EJ was. I don't see how you can blame EJ for that. A racing incident for sure, but Dixon was the one who was moving from one side of the track to the other.Quote:
Originally Posted by underpowered
Well, that's been a strategy as ong as there's been pit stops that I've been watching. I'll give you about hte last 10 year of F1 racing as an example. There was no passing for position anywhere but in the pits. I will agree that it sucks though it's far from new.Quote:
Originally Posted by TURN3
I know its one of the signatures of the LB course layout, but that corner sucks from the first lap to the last, and they clearly have an option for a layout that wouldn't create such a problematic corner year after year, no matter what series is running. If it's not screwing up a start, it's driver s either bottlenecking the turn with stupid moves, or it's drivers pancaking the wall trying to get off the corner. I think the only clean fair start thanks to the hairpin I've ever seen at LB was last year's standing start. They improved the entry to the hairpin dramatically when they moved the walls back a few years ago, but it still sucks. It's too narrow, and the hairpin is too tight. The two seater couldn't even make the turn for cripe's sake.
I know some like it and it's an integral part of the course and it actually does create passing opportunities on drivers that can't get out of the hairpin well, but I just hate that turn.
You're perhaps one of the few who saw it that way :sQuote:
Originally Posted by underpowered
Dixon drove into Viso, not the other way round. It's as clear as the red nose on Rudolph, EJ maintained his line & Scott squeezed EJ into the wall when he moved off his. Where in the heck was the #13 supposed to go?
Not necessarily a deliberate swipe I concur, but a definate veer off his line & into Viso who already occupied that bit of concrete.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xkz_9zV3mi8
the video doesn't lie, Dixon drove right into Viso
Quote:
Originally Posted by harvick#1
It did look like he moved over into him, but everyone was slowing and bottlenecking up, so I'm not sure that Viso slowed enough! There was no room for error there on anyones part.
EJ was following the racing line, Scott went for a look at Will, and drove right into EJ after he knew it was a no go on the pass, EJ was in absolute no wrong and 100% blame goes to Scott.Quote:
Originally Posted by jimispeed
EJ saw Scott was held up by Will and decided to dive bomb down the outside. Scott moves across to ensure he can take the corners (not enough room to get around the corner otherwise) only to find a car flying at about 160MPH to his right. I guess no driver would expect someone flying down there.Quote:
Originally Posted by harvick#1
If Scott had managed to swerve back out of his way, they still wouldnt have made it around the bend two wide as it is too tight. Scott may have been able to jump on the brakes and attempt to pull in behind, but that would have locked them and he would have gone straight ahead. It was always going to be an accident to try the pass.
Sloppy driving my EJ. He just needs to show a little more patience. It was disapointed in his excuse during the interview also. Going on about Scott being slow out of the previous bend was clearly incorrect when you watch the video.
I hope EJ improves this impulsive driving as I think he is a fast driver and better than some that finished alot further up.
Flying down the outside and occupying a piece of concrete doesnt constitute a safe pass. EJ needs to understand the other driver needs enough room to get around the corner also. Scott was lucky the contact happened just before the corner. If scott had tried to give him room they would have both not made the corner and that would have blocked the track.Quote:
Originally Posted by elis
Hi can anyone tell me the crowds, ok i didnt go this year but i was suprised from the tv cams and over head shots, how many large gaps were in the grandstands compared to the previous few years, even last year race there seemed to be a impression there were more ?
Maybe the economic claimate taking it toll ?
As for the race, it had some moments of excitement and very dull points. From a cornerworkers side of things, the safety team doesnt seem upto the task on knowledge how to get cars out of a situation very quickly compared to the well trained champcar safety team of pervious years,as street tracks are very different kinda animals to the ovals.
Good lawd. Viso was on the exact same line as Wilson & Matos into the corner, Dixon was behind Will on a completely different line, he jinked left behind Power then sharp right directly into Viso.Quote:
Originally Posted by underpowered
So to play devils advocat.. had Viso not been there, where would he be? Probably plowing into the back of Dixon as Dixon would still have made a sudden left-right double dart & cut infront of the 13.
Clearly we beg to differ, it's a racing incident, but the consensus does seem to be that Dixon rather than Viso should shoulder this one.
I talked to my brother-in-law this morning. He goes every year. He's an event fan, not a race fan so he has no interest in the CART/CC vs IRL war. He thought the crowd was down a little from last year and down more from the year before.Quote:
Originally Posted by evo5_mat
Wrong!Quote:
Originally Posted by elis
I think Dixon should have left EJ there and turned left into the corner. Then EJ would have had no choice but drive into the wall as he would have no room to turn left also. Scott needed rom to negotiate the corner and EJ didnt leave any, just plain bad driving on EJ's part
I feel sorry for EJ. It's his impatience like this that has kept him at the back of the pack. He should not have finished 17th last year with his experience.
If he had not gone flying up the outside he would have finished in about 5 or 6. But instead he wanted to pass Scott in a 50/50 move.
He has won Championships before and should know this stuff.
Well it wasn't THAT bad....
Good crowd as always in the LBC.
My media center balked at recording it live so I was forced to watch the shorten replay today. They didn't even play the winner's interview. Just like ABC cut the last say 15 mins from the ALMS race for some unexplainable reason , what's going on with the coverage???
Any who, Danica; yes actually drove a nice race on a street course for once. She had a horrible outing at the end of 2008 at Surfer's and followed that up with a sub par run at the tail end of the field at St Pete. Guess they found the balance she needed in her car. She is not the fastest pedaler by a fair margin but the key to winning and keeping her detractors quiet is to have solid finishes and this was one of them.
Dario put on a clinic today and controlled the pace, that made it a bit boring but its nice to see a competitive field at Long Beach since the split. Macro had a good run as well, should have finished higher I think, but did well. Seat time over in A1GP is helping I think. Too bad he'll miss the Mexico round since it clashes with next race.
Well I'll be taking a break from the IRL as the money will rise to the top and teams like Daly Coyne have no chance for even a top 5 finish. I like ovals to a point, but I can do without the cookie cutter Kansas, Chicago, Texas D shaped ovals.
I'll pick it up at Indy and what USED to be the Rex Mays race at the Milwaukee Mile the week after the 500.
Another solid event for the reunited IRL...
take off the rose colored glasses, Scott went to make a move on Will, didn't work, and came back across and smacked EJ. EJ made no move to even intend on passing Scott, just to give room, and Scott wrecked EJ's race. EJ was in the racing line and was not swerving at all unlike Scott, you just don't want to admit itQuote:
Originally Posted by underpowered
I could say the same to you. Imagine if EJ had just been a little more aware of what was going on ahead, he would've finished high up in the race.Quote:
Originally Posted by harvick#1
EJ is under alot of pressure and thats possibly what caused his impatience. But finishing last is not going to help. If he keeps it up he will be out of a job.
I am amazed that you cant see how EJ was pulling a high risk move. I just watched it again in slow mo and it is easy to see an accident coming.
Scott is happy to admit whe he causes an accident, he did it last week. Briscoe, on the other hand had a weird explanation for crashing on the yellow
If only EJ could have this kind of class when he is interviewed
"Ryan and I are good mates, and obviously he's not going to do anything like that on purpose," Dixon said.
And Briscoe put him from 6th to 15th
Many of us go on about how there is no passing on street an ora courses - ere are two drivers trying to make something happen and all we can do is argue about who is at fault - good for both of them for RACING.....Briscoe getting into Dixon was stupid as was the corkscrew debacle - Viso and Dixon was a racing accident.....
Back of the pack??Quote:
Originally Posted by underpowered
And that's the problem with only looking at the finishing positions without the facts.
The majority of races that he failed to score up in were as a result of mechanicals not 'impatience'. 4 dnfs, 3 on ovals only 1 from pushing too hard at Detroit. He didn't race Nashville due to illness, so no points there. 7 top 10 finishes, a highest of 4th, he ran 2nd at the Richmond oval before a yellow screwed him after he'd pitted.
Sure there were a couple of moments were he made errors in his rookie year.. show me a guy that hasn't, even long established guys, like Dixon, still do ;)
I just get the feeling from your all comments you are not a fan.. that's you're perogotive, but you have to be fair here with your assessment, 2008 was his first time out in ICS, & on ovals, his dnfs came primarily due to car probs. His 'lowly' season ending finishing place was not indicative to how his first year actually went.
2009, ST Pete steering problems forced a retirement whilst running well.
the fact is, EJ was making no attempt to pass, he was following the racing line, while Will shut the door on Scott, scott needed to come up to make the turn, how anyone sees EJ is at fault is insane,Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris R
dont get me wrong underpowered, I was rooting for Scott to win the championship cause I'm not that big of fan of Helio, but it was a bonehead move by not looking in his mirrors, all the drivers have done it
OK. I will admit that I am wrong on my assesment of his 2008 season and he drove very well and had some bad luck. Dont get me wrong, I dont have anything against EJ and I am impressed with his racing background.Quote:
Originally Posted by elis
My issue is that he didnt have enough awareness of what was going on ahead of him and created a situation where he gets knocked out. He then get out of the car and blames Scott, when clearly Scott had been held up by Power and had moved over to ensure he could make it around the corner without running out of track. If EJ was honest with himself he would admit he had a choice to slow up behind Scott and Will or go two wide into the corner. He chose to go two wide and ran out of track. A 50/50 move that put him out of the race. In his interview he blames the other driver and accuses him of blocking while he himself was perfect (reminded me of PT).
Scott on the other hand gets rammed from behind under yellow and has the good grace to say "Ryan and I are good mates, and obviously he's not going to do anything like that on purpose,"
IF EJ wants me as a fan, he needs to be class off the track as well as on.
I am not a fan of the PT style of trash talk.
If he was making no attempt to pass, why didnt he just stay behind the car in front instead of causing an accident?Quote:
Originally Posted by harvick#1
I didnt say EJ was at fault, I said it was a 50/50 pass that didnt come off. EJ would have impressed me if he had be more classy in his interview and said "I saw an opportunity to grab a spot off Scott, it didnt work out, I guess he didnt expect me to be there"
Instead he accused Scott of deliberatly moving over on him. Scott is a good clean driver that has always given other drivers the benefit of the doubt.
I then get on the forums to hear people regurgitating EJ's comment here and blaming Scott. One comment even went on to say Scott caused accidents on 6 cars.
You're making a complete joke of yourself. Just let it go. You are the ONLY person on this and many other forums that has this skewed version of the events between Scott and EJ. There is 1 point and 1 point only to be considered here. You are allowed 1 line through a corner, Scott changed his line. Regardless of where EJ was, were he was going, good choice, bad choice, none of it matters. The only driver in that corner that broke the rules established in every single drivers meeting was Scott. World class as he is, he is allowed to make mistakes and in the case he did according to every single other person that has commented on it but you.Quote:
Originally Posted by underpowered
EJ said nothing wrong in his interview either. He stated the facts, he said they were told in the drivers meeting not to change their line and that he was disappointed that a great champion like Scott did in fact do that. That is hardly trash talking and it is hardly out of line. I'm sure if Scott wouldn't have been the victim of Briscoe's bonehead move it would've been a bigger deal and even Scott himself would most likely admit he didn't see EJ and shouldn't have changed his line. Bottom line, it is racing and regardless of who is to blame they were both RACING. No way can EJ be to blame in this case. Dixon clearly moved from one side of the track to the other while EJ was on the normal racing line. Period...so move on. You're making yourself look like that guy that like you know who.
And to be clear, PT talks trash and has backed it up for 16 years. He rarely casts blame on people unless clear and rarely doesn't accept responsibility of for his bonehead moves...and there are many. Those moves are boneheaded when they don't work and have made him famous when they do. Hardly any comparison here to EJ and Scott's incident. Although, I will say EJ does remind a bit of PT without the greatest of equipment to boot.
I was at the race so I didn't have the greatest coverage. WHen did Dixon cause accidents at LB? I still don't know how Briscoe hit him in the end on a yellow. Wow, did he hit the gas in stead of the brake or what? Was there post-race interviews?Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad_Hatter
I also felt bad for Graham. He was running really well and then his pit stop killed him. I'm not sure if he left the pits too early or they gave him the thumbs up and they actually weren't done.
I was surprised about the lack of passing too. I know it is a streets course but was there really like no room for passing?
Anyone else think Stanton was too far off pace and shouldn't have been out there?
I do like Danica but how did she pull that off? I guess she pitted in the beginning when she was at the back so then she was on a diff pit strategy that helped her in the end?
Wow! did I touch a nerve somewhere.Quote:
Originally Posted by TURN3
There is an easy way to move on here...Just admit that EJ tried a pass that didn't work out and incorrectly put the entire blame on the other driver instead of accepting some responsiblity...easy. Its what champions do.
Just because your an EJ fan doesnt mean he is a perfect saint.
And Comparing me to DanicaFan is unfair man :-)
I think from the video it is obvious that Dixon ran into EJ. EJ had no where to go, Dixon just plowed him into the wall.
Any footage of Dixon running into graham? It didn't damage either of them but led to that 4 or 5 car pile up right?
No nerves were touched and I'm not an EJ fan. I just see you going back and forth and back and forth about an issue that is purely obvious to everybody but you. Obviously you're a fan of Dixon and that's great, he's an awesome driver. But you are looking over the only fact that matters here. HE VIOLATED RULES BY CHANGING LINES GOING INTO THE TURN. Anything else is irrelevant because he did that. I don't care if EJ is going into the runoff in reverse, Scott changed his line and squeezed EJ into the wall. Why is that such a hard concept for you to understand? How many on this forum alone have stated their view and you still can't just say...yeah he changed his line and therefore has to take responsibility? That is the D$%@ RULE! Period Period Period Period Period Period. <-----(Period)Quote:
Originally Posted by underpowered
Now get over your illusion and get into your buddy's (ok, I'm being funny about this part) Kansas thread. Both will do better there on the aero no skill necessary track.
I'm really struggling to see how Viso was attempting anything other than taking the normal line through the corner? He doesn't jink about on the approach as though he's shaping up for a move, he just sits on the same line everyone bar Dixon is taking. Quite how that can be perceived as diving up the outside is beyond me in all honesty. There's no lunge or sudden change of line, so I think he is justified in blaming Dixon. Even if he'd anticipated Dixon moving back over, where could he have gone? There was no room on his right, as he was over against the wall on the normal line, and moving left would have taken his nose off against the rear of Dixon and probably punted Dixon off in the process. That would leave backing off, at which point he bunches the field and gets hit from behind, doubtless to be accused of causing an accident....