Rally History (part III)

Thank you again Januszsz

And thank you also Jirka RK ,

Can either of you provide me with any source of these 1976 Rallye de Lugano Results ?

I know they are correct - but I am needing to prove them to someone beyond any refute.

As the results for this rallye in 1976 (as far as I can tell ) was the differance for the end result of the National Rallye Championship of CH for 1976 !

At their website's Palmares (archives) webpage :

http://www.swissrally.ch/archives/ (go to 1976)


They not only list Andre Savary/ Jean-Robert Corthay as 1st place finishers of this rallye ??? (which in reality - it seems that Savary / Corthay were not even in the top 10 !).

The listed finishes (on THEIR website) of :

3rd - Carl-Ludwig Locher/Ueli Krebs

4th - Raymond Balmer/Michel Roetlisberger

5th - Eros Medici/Claudio Sannitz

Do not seem correct either as (even if they are ONLY listing the Swiss entrant results in their own National Championship series).

In actuality , it looks like Medici /Sannitz should be the correct 2nd place finisher (in their CH Championship).

As again (like Savary) Balmer or Locher , in reality, were not even in top 10 finishers either !!.
------------------------------

But again (it looks to me) that even more critical is their mistake between finisher #1 & #2 of this rallye .

For the Correct finish of Carron at 1st overall (besides just first of their Swiss Entrants).

Should have made him the actual 1976 CH National Rallye Champion and not Savary ! (as they have listed)

And it would probably also change the final positions of #2 - 5 of this National Championship Series.
------------------------------

The first overall of finish of Carron agree's not only my other sourced results :


http://www.bilhistorie.no/ (hit "bilsport" at top - then below "1976")


Lugano: Jean-Marie Carron/Sclair – Porsche Carrera RS (actually Schaer)
----------------------

But I was also told through a friend of J-M. Carron DIRECTLY - that he was the overall winner of this rallye.

AND long ago I was told he was a consecutive years CH National Rallye Champion (in the mid 70's)

So these fact's also correlate there also.

-----------------------

So i would very much appreciate Irrefutable evidence of this 1976 lugano results (magazine or newspaper reports ).


PS - again , I am also looking to verify top overall finishers of the 1976 333 Minuti.

I am trying to figure out if j-m. Carron was first overall . Or just first of the Swiss.

From Carron himself - he said first overall (i believe he meant overall period - not just of the Swiss , but i was not there to clarify) .

Thus I am searching for listings or anyones knoledge of Top overall 1976 333 Minuti results.

Because also at:

http://www.bilhistorie.no/ (hit "bilsport" at top - then below "1976")

this result for 1976 333 Minuti is listed :

Winner - 333 Minuti: Adartico Vudafieri/Bonaga – Lancia Stratos HF ????
If anyone can help - please do.

In my opinion it is possible that only part of Lugano Rally (first day? or first leg) was valid for national championship and just only Swiss drivers were to score points. Results sent by Jirka are the final result of etire international (ERC) rally. I can imagine that Savary was the best Swiss after day 1 then retired next day.
That situation was common during Poland Rally. In 60's only first day was valid for Polish Rally Championship and in 70's and 80's only first day was valid for Peace & Friendship Cup. So why not in Switerland?
It is just only a suggestion. I don't know the truth in fact.
Regards
Janusz

Note-

I was checking to see if anyone replied to my continued post (bored, I guess).

And I noticed a statement I could clarify (since it will not allow me to edit above ?)
-------------------
Although these (1976 Lugano) correct results WOULD re-shuffle the top 5 finshers of the 1976 CH Rally Championship series overall.

in this statement :

"In actuality , it looks like Medici /Sannitz should be the correct 2nd place finisher (in their CH Championship)."

I MEANT - it looks like Medici/Sannitz should be the correct 2nd place finsher of THIS RALLY (in their 1976 Championship series).

Thx for the theoritic possibility Januszsz (seems you slipped in there while i was clarifying),

Quite interesting. If anyone knows more and can validate or invalidate - i am trying to get to end truth .

If so , and THAT scoring system is true. Seems more than a bit of crock - give the win (points) to someone who DNF'ed , and second place points to the person who not only was final top finisher of the Swiss.

But overall winner of the Rallye !

(Thought i lost the above post while i was typing - to complete)


Thx for the Theoritic possibility Januszsz,

If anyone knows more (or for certain) - please chime in . I am trying to get to the end truth (i don't speak french - so trying other sources before speaking to CH).

If the above mentioned scoring system possibility is correct . Seems like more than a bit of crock to me.

Give the win (points) to the person who DNF'ed , and the second place points to the person who not only was final top finisher of the Swiss.

But the FINAL overall winner period !

Especially when this result would end up giving the Championship to the DNF'er instead of the overall winner of this event of the Championship series ?

To me that is just too bizzarre.

PS - Januszsz , do you have the final overall results in print from a newspaper or periodical ?

I have tyop 6 of Lugano Rally '76 in a print version (a press cut of polish daily newspaper). If you need it I can find it and scann.
About your astonishment because of "Give the win (points) to the person who DNF'ed , and the second place points to the person who not only was final top finisher of the Swiss". I understand you but if the rules are like that: national rally goes one day and covers 350km (12 SS= 123km) and just only holders of Swiss licence are eligible for championship points. It is clear that less important championship is shorter and easoer than more imprtant (ERC). The round of Swiss Championship ends in Saturday. It is finished. If any Swiss driver wish to go further and to compete in international rally he can do the second day of rally. In fact such situation creates two winners of the rally as there were two separate rallies done on common route (first day).

regards
Janusz

Hi 55spyder,
I would like to know if You have the final time of André Savary in the national event (if yes, maybe I could find the top 20 you are looking for) and also the date of 333 m rally !

regards
jorge

Thx ,

for the excellent explanation of the 2 separate events at same time
Januszsz !

And yes please , a scan of the clipping would be fantastic (PM'ed you also).
---------------------

To JRally ,

I only have what you & Januszsz have kindly provided.

Sorry , I too would like to know the finish of Savary ?

And any help with the 333's (75 & 76) someday ? - please do.
---
In Fact , if you guys have anymore CH results from 1975-76.

Looking for these overall results also (don't have dates but these should be in chronological order) - along with the 333's :

1975

Rallye du Vin
Rallye du Court
333 Minuti

1976

Rallye des Neige
Rallye d'Uri (also called Rallye du Gotthard)
Rallye de Court
333 Minuti


Thx again - you guys are the Best !!

55spyder

Sorry - Rallye des "Neiges" , not Neige / (Rally of Snows).

http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s...02sm_grey2.jpg

this is a press cut from a polish newspaper about Rally Lugano 1976:

"Jaroszewicz and Zyszkowski came second in Rally Lugano"

Polish crew Jaroszewicz and Zyszkowski came second in Rally Lugano, round of European Rally Championship. The overall winner of the rally was Swiss crew Jean Marie Carron / Pierre Schaer, third were Italians Federico Cane and Gaetano Orlando. The route of the rally was 1200km long with 35 special stages. 31 crews from 58 starters finished the rally.

Thx again very much Januszsz .

PS - in case you do not recognise Rallye du Vin (earlier version of Rallye du Valais).

From first in 1960 to 1983 , it was Rallye du Vin.

"Rallye du Vin" became "Vin et Valais" in 1984.

Then became "Rallye Du Valais" in 1985, and then on till now.

From the Rallye du Valais website:

"Le Rallye International du Valais a été organisé pour la première fois en septembre 1960 dans le cadre d'une manifestation régionale,Son fondateur, Philippe Simonetta, marchand de vin et passionné de rallye (il a participé à l'époque au fameux Rallye de Monte Carlo) voulait faire découvrir aux pilotes automobiles une facette différente de leur sport. La géographie de la région offrait un terrain idéal pour l'organisation d'un rallye.

La course s’appelait alors "Le Rallye du Vin" et bénéficiait du soutien d'autres marchands de vin valaisans. Elle prit rapidement de l'ampleur tout en restant fidèle à son appellation et à sa philosophie:
- La découverte de la région, de son vignoble et de ses vins

Un concours oenologique clôturait les épreuves sportives.

Jusqu'en 1975, sous la conduite - entre autres - de deux autres directeurs de Course, également négociants en vins (Jean-Pierre Favre durant cinq ans et Jacques-Alphonse Orsat pendant une année), le Rallye du Vin était la manifestation touristique et sportive à ne pas manquer.

A partir de 1976, sous la direction de Pierre-Antoine Gschwend et avec le soutien de l'Ecurie 13 Etoiles - la plus importante de l’époque -, l'aspect touristique laissait place à une épreuve automobile purement sportive qui accéda rapidement à des Championnats Internationaux.

Ainsi, dès 1980, le Rallye du Vin était intégré au Championnat d'Europe, d'abord avec le coefficient 1, puis le coefficient 2 l'année suivante. De nombreux pilotes étrangers venaient y faire leurs classes. Des rallymen de renom ont pris part à l'épreuve, parmi lesquels Per Eklund, Jimmy McRae, Jean Ragnotti, Guy Colsoul, Sepp Haider, Harald Demuth, Patrick Snijers, Robert Droogmans, Bruno Thiry, etc.

Le nom même du Rallye évoluait: de 1981 à 1984 il s'appelait "Rallye International du Vin et du Valais" et dès 1985, "Rallye International du Valais". Cette nouvelle dénomination n'associait plus le vin et la conduite sur route et permettait aux férus de géographie de situer dans l'espace (la Suisse en général et le Valais en particulier) la manifestation phare du sport automobile Suisse."

Hello 55Spyder,

Here what I cound find about André Savary !

Regarding the Lugano Rally 1976 I have this classification (with reserves) :

1-André Savary-Jean Robert Corthay Porsche Carrera RS 1.50.44
2-Jean Marie Carron-Pierre Schaer Porsche Carrera RS 1.51.36
3-Karl-Ludwig Locher-Ueli Krebs Opel Kadett GT/E 1.56.20
4-Eros Medici-Claudio Sannitz Porsche Carrera RS 2.02.16
5-Raymond Balmer-Michel Roethlisberger Mini 1275 GT 2.02.54
6-Mathias Schreier-Max Graf Alpine Renault A 110-1600 S 2.03.20
7-Secondo Spaccio-Tiziano Merzari Opel Ascona 2.04.42
8-Michel Scemana-Tony Baretta Opel Kadett GT/E 2.05.45
9-Willy Bregnard-Jean François Buehler Fiat 124 Abarth 2.06.00
10-Claude Hotz-Philippe Jeannin Simca Rally 2 2.06.09

This was the classification of Rally National (as Janusz said looking the final times - see that in the International Rally final time of the winner was 3.14.47 - it should be disputed in the final of first leg or second).
In the International classification (according italian magazine Autosprint) he finnished second but a complain of Jaroszewicz (Savary has made one intervention in the car against the rules) he was penalized and finnished 31th overall.

After seeing Autosprint and Auto-Hebdo I haven't find any other news regarding the swiss championship.
Although I've found these other results :

1971 - Monte Carlo (he was the co-driver of Claude Haldi in a Porsche 911 S and they retired with engine problems - culburator)

1976 - finnished 3th overall in the french rally Mont Blanc in a Porsche Carrera RS with Jean Robert Corthay) and 5h in the Ronde du Vercors (also in France) with the same car and navigator.

1976
3th in Rally du Mont Blanc (Porsche Carrera RS) Jean Robert Corthay
5th Ronde du Vercors (Porsche Carrera RS) Jean Robert Corthay
3th Rally Coppa Liburna (Porsche Carrera RS) Jean Robert Corthay

1977
2nd in Rally du Mont Blanc (Porsche Carrera RS) Jean Robert Corthay
5th Rally Coppa Liburna (Porsche 934 Turbo) Jean Robert Corthay
13th in Rally Ypres and winner of group 3 (Porsche Carrera RS) co-driver Marc Duez ?

That's what I could find ! Hope it helps !
Best regards
jorge

one correction ...

In 1977 it wasn't the Ypres Rally but the Boucles of SPA !

Jorge

JRally ,

Yes your 76 Lugano (CH National Results ) are same as CH Championship's website archives . Only they show no Wiily Bregbard/ Jean-Francois Buhler results ?

Strange as I know Bregnard & Buhler and in 1976 I do not know . But in 1977

they WERE running and using a Fiat 124 Abarth Spyder:

1977 Rallye de Monte Carlo

Bregnard/Meraldi - 42nd overall , 16th Group 4 (Car # 87 - Fiat 124 Abarth)


J-F. Buhler / Marice Jacot - DNF Group. 1 (Car # 183 / VW Golf)

& possibly 2 Fiat/Abarths owned as:

1977 Rallye "Ronde Cevenole"

6th overall : Willy Bregnard / Maurice Jacot # 22 - Fiat 124 Abarth / Ecurie des 3 Chevrons
7th or 8th ? overall : Jean-Francois Buhler / Jacques Meraldi # 23 - Fiat 124 Abarth

Unless Ronde Cevenole was a hillclimb ? (i don't think so ?) , and they switched numbers - using the same car

------------------------------

ANYWAY ,

One thing I do know is that in 1976 (and 1975 ) Andre Savary was using a 1974 Carrera RS 3.0 (Red) . And J-M. Carron was using a 1973 Carrera 2.7 (white)

PS - If you can help with the results (overall of full rallyes - if any were 2 parts/ Ch National AND International like 76 Lugano was)

Of the 6 remaining from 1975 & 1976 that I need results from (listed some posts back).

We have no Group classifications for the 76 Lugano European Round results for the 10 finishers listed ?

And if you came up with Savary at 31st , do you have places 11th -30th in between ?

Thx again

55spyder

Hello,

Unfortunately I don't have the complete results of the International Rally (just top-ten) and the information I told you was in the report of Italian magazine 'Autosprint' ! If You want I scan it for You, please send me a PM with your mail. I will send You also the results of National rally which as I told You (final times will help a lot) don't know if they are the final results.

Best regards
jorge

thx Jrally,

sent you a PM

@kabouter:
According to Czech website http://www.ewrc-results.com/search.php
these are dates of rally drivers & co-drivers from the
Czech Republic:
Václav Arazim, b. 17 February 1955
Martin Barták, b. 14 February 1967
Josef Bartončík, b. 17 March 1976
Vladimír Barvík, b. 19 March 1971
Daniel Bĕhálek, b. 04 August 1971
Alena Benešová, b. 20 January 1969
Antonín Berger, b. 13 July 1970
Tomáš Bičák, b. 09 September 1969
František Blahout, b. 21 December 1952
Jiří Boček, b. 13 March 1964
Oldřich Boček, b. 19 May 1974
Vlastimil Brůzl, b. 12 December 1963
Petr Brynda, b. 03 July 1981
Miroslav Cais, b. 17 April 1970
Petr Černohorský jun., b. 26 September 1966
Pavel Červenka, b. 22 September 1978
Milan Chvojka, b. 23 November 1959
Hana Chvojková, b. 18 March 1960
Zuzana Chvojková, b. 30 March 1983
Véroslav Cvrček, b. 20 July 1962
Miroslava Cvrčková, b. 10 August 1968
Milan Dolák, b. 23 January 1955
Vladimír Dolínek, b. 07 February 1974
Pavel Dresler, b. 23 June 1986
Miroslav Fanta, died on 06 May 2007
Michal Fiala, b. 03 April 1981
Tomáš Fiala, b. 24 December 1971
Miroslav Fišer, b. 15 October 1953
Julius Gál, b. 03 January 1959
Miroslav Hanzlík, b. 29 May 1970
Tomáš Heidenreich, b. 11 September 1966
Karel Holaň, b. 27 March 1957
Jaroslav Holý, b. 17 October 1975
Emil Horniaček, b. 03 April 1966
Vít Houšť, b. 18 November 1980
Lenka Hriadeľová, b. 25 July 1973
Stanislav Kafka, b. 28 January 1960
Jan Klokočka, b. 26 November 1960
Martin Knajzl, b. 05 May 1974
Milan Kneifel, b. 13 December 1970
Roman Konečný, b. 20 January 1972
Ladislav Křeček, b. 26 August 1950
Martin Křeček, b. 01 March 1971
Petr Křížek, b. 05 May 1971
Hanka Křížková, b. 16 July 1968
Jiří Kulhán, b. 22 March 1958
Jindřich Kunc, b. 20 December 1968
Pavel Kundrát, b. 27 January 1977
Billy Latif, b. 15 September 1970
Jiří Línek, b. 25 March 1954
Stanislav Máša, b. 12 February 1964
Silvestr Mikuláštík, b. 11 December 1976
Dalibor Moravec, b. 09 May 1961
Radoslav Nešpor, b. 24 April 1963
Richard Nesvadba, b. 22 September 1972
Antonín Novák, b. 07 February 1977
Petr Novák, b. 17 January 1976
Libor Ocelík, b. 18 July 1963
Pavel Okrajek, b. 30 November 1965
Pavel Ondrejčík, b. 21 September 1970
Jaroslav Orsák, b. 18 July 1984
Štĕpán Palivec, b. 13 March 1974
Pavel Pašek, b. 01 November 1976
Jiří Pech, b. 23 June 1957
Josef Peták, b. 05 December 1959
Jana Pluhařová, b. 07 September 1976
František Poláček, b. 12 September 1961
Petr Poulík, b. 04 September 1971
Milan Pražák, b. 21 June 1961
Václav Pritzl, b. 27 May 1962
Zdeňka Rajchmanová, b. 20 May 1959
Pavel Řihák, b. 08 May 1959
Petr Řihák, b. 07 July 1965
Tomáš Singer, b. 10 June 1962
Miroslav Šlambora, b. 11 April 1969
David Soviar, b. 07 February 1974
Vojtĕch Štajf, b. 09 March 1974
Jaroslav Starý, b. 17 April 1967
Jan Štĕpánek, b. 12 July 1973
František Synáč, b. 04 March 1972
Viktor Szabó, b. 23 July 1978
Miloslav Talaváňa (note spelling!), b. 09 February 1972
Jiří Tošovský, b. 31 October 1967
Karel Trnĕný, b. 18 September 1973
Petr Trnovec, b. 06 October 1969
Jiří Trojan, b. 21 January 1957
Eva Trojanová, b. 04 August 1965
Kateřina Trojanová, b. 18 February 1977
Marcel Tuček, b. 31 March 1960
Petr Uhel, b. 08 December 1976
Karel Vajík, b. 18 January 1970
Jaroslav Váňa, b. 24 December 1970
Jaroslav Vančík, b. 12 January 1974
Lýdie Vičíková, b. 17 February 1973
Milan Vítek, b. 02 February 1968
Petr Vlašín, b. 25 March 1964
Dan (full name: Daniel) Vodička, b. 14 May 1977
Jiří Volf, b. 20 August 1973
Ondřej Volf, b. 10 August 1963
Jan Votava, b. 31 October 1971
Zdenĕk Vrbecký, b. 20 March 1978
Karel Žáček, b. 17 February 1979
Petr Zedník, b. 16 April 1960

Hi,

Once I'm not able to send You this, here what I could find till now ! Hope it helps !

Jean Marie Carron

1975
1st Rallye du Vin (Porsche Carrera RS) c/ Pierre Schaer
1st Rallye de Court (Porsche Carrera RS) c/ Pierre Schaer
1st Rallye 333 m (Porsche Carrera RS) c/ Pierre Schaer

1976
1st Rally Lugano (Porsche Carrera RS) c/Pierre Schaer (International)
2nd Rally Lugano (Porsche Carrera RS) c/Pierre Schaer (National)

6th Critérium Lucien Bianchi (Porsche Carrera RS) c/Pierre Schaer
1st Rallye D’Uri (Porsche Carrera RS) c/ Pierre Schaer
1st Rallye de Court (Porsche Carrera RS) c/ Pierre Schaer
1st Rallye 333 m (Porsche Carrera RS) c/ Pierre Schaer
2nd Rallye des Neiges (Porsche Carrera RS) c/ Pierre Schaer

1977
3th 24 Heures de Ypres (Porsche Carrera RS) c/ Pierre Schaer
4th Rallye Coppa Liburna (Porsche Carrera RS) c/ Pierre Schaer

1979
1st Rallye de Vaud (Porsche 911 SC) c/ Pierre-André Jaquemet

1981
4th Rally du Vin (Porsche 911 SC) c/ Ugo Rattazzi
3rd Rallye du Mont Blanc (Porsche 911 SC) c/ Ugo Rattazzi
2nd Rallye des 13 Etoiles (Porsche 911 SC) c/ Ugo Rattazzi
1st Rallye Reichstadt (Porsche 911 SC) c/ Ugo Rattazzi
1st Rallye Coppa Liburna (Porsche 911 SC) c/ Ugo Rattazzi
2nd Rallye de Court (Porsche 911 SC) c/ Ugo Rattazzi

1982
5th Rallye della Lana (Porsche 930 Turbo) c/Ugo Rattazzi
7th Rallye du Vin (Porsche 930 Turbo) c/Ugo Rattazzi
1st Critérium Jurassien (Porsche 930 Turbo) c/ Ugo Rattazzi

1983
6th Rallye della Lana (Porsche 930 Turbo) c/Serge Racine

1984
8th Rallye du Vin (Porsche 930 Turbo) c/ Laurent Lattion

1985
1st Critérium Jurassien (Audi Quattro) c/ Laurent Lattion
3rd Rallye du Salève (Audi Quattro) c/ Laurent Lattion
4th Rallye des Alpes Vaudoises (Audi Quattro) c/ Laurent Lattion
1st Rallye Reichstadt (Audi Quattro) c/ Laurent Lattion

1986
AB Critérium Jurassien (Volkswagen Golf Gti 16v) c/ Serge Racine (?)
7th Rallye Genf-Salève (Volkswagen Golf Gti 16v) c/ Serge Racine
7th Rallye de Lugano (Volkswagen Golf Gti 16v) c/ Serge Racine
6th Rallye des Alpes Vaudoises (Volkswagen Golf Gti 16v) c/ Serge Racine
AB Rallye della Lana (Volkswagen Golf Gti 16v) c/ Serge Racine (cardan)
? Rallye Baden-Wurtemberg (Volkswagen Golf Gti 16v) c/ Serge Racine (2nd Group A)
5th Rallye St-Cergue (Volkswagen Golf Gti 16v) c/ Serge Racine
6th Rallye de Court (Volkswagen Golf Gti 16v) c/ Serge Racine
AB Rallye du Valais (Volkswagen Golf Gti 16v) c/ Serge Racine (boite de vitesses)

1987
7th Rallye du Valais (Volkswagen Golf Gti 16v) c/ Serge Racine
2nd Critérium Jurassien (Volkswagen Golf Gti 16v) c/Serge Racine
AB Rallye Bad-Wurtemberg (Volkswagen Golf Gti 16v) c/Serge Racine (cardan)
4th Rallye de Genève-Salève (Volkswagen Golf Gti 16v) c/ Serge Racine
AB Rallye Lugano (Volkswagen Golf Gti 16v) c/Serge Racine (moteur)
2nd Rallye di Varese (Volkswagen Golf Gti 16v) c/ Serge Racine
2nd Rallye des Alpes Vaudoises (Volkswagen Golf Gti 16v) c/ Serge Racine
4th Rallye St-Cergue (Volkswagen Golf Gti 16v) c/ Serge Racine
AB Rallye de Court (Volkswagen Golf Gti 16v) c/Serge Racine (pont)

1989
6th Critérium Jurassien (Lancia Delta HF Integrale) c/ ? Maire
10th Rallye Genéve-Saleve ((Lancia Delta HF Integrale) c/ ? Maire
5th Rallye du Valais (Lancia Delta HF Integrale) c/Serge Racine

1990
6th Rallye du Valais (Lancia Delta HF Integrale) c/ Christian Monnet

1993
9th Rallye della Lana (Ford Escort RS Cosworth) c/ Christian Monnet
5th Rallye du Valais (Ford Escort RS Cosworth) c/ Christian Monnet
3rd Critérium Jurassien (Ford Sierra RS Cosworth) c/ Serge Racine

1994
5th Rallye du Valais (Ford Escort RS Cosworth) c/ Christian Monnet

1995
2nd Rallye Alsace Vosges (Ford Escort RS Cosworth) c/Christian Monnet
3rd Rallye du Valais (Ford Escort RS Cosworth) c/Serge Racine

1996
5th Rallye du Valais (Ford Escort RS Cosworth) c/ Marie Jeanne Carron
2nd Critérium Jurassien (Ford Escort RS Cosworth) c/ Christian Monnet
1st Rallye dei Laghi (Ford Escort RS Cosworth) c/ Christian Monnet
2nd Rallye des Alpes Vaudoises (Ford Escort RS Cosworth) c/ Christian Monnet
4th Rallye St-Cergue (Ford Escort RS Cosworth) c/ Marie Jeanne Carron


I've some doubts regarding 1989, if it's Jean Marie or any other Carron. I just put it because he had participated in the Valais Rally with a Lancia Delta Integrale. So, be cautious .. If it's him, do You know the complete name of his co-driver, Maire ?

Regarding the 70's, not to much material ... just try, as You've done, get the final classifications of http://www.swissrally .

In most part of the international rallyes outside Switzerland I provide the final classification in that championship and not overall positions.

I will try to see what I could find regarding 90-97 ...

Best regards
jorge

Does soemone knows the following items (place of birth (p), date of birth (d), year of first rally (y) and first car (c) of :

Reinhard Hainbach (y+c)
Bert de Jong (c)
Helmut Polensky (y+c)
Donald Morley (d)
Klaus Russling (p+d+y+c)
Kalevi Aho (p)
Erwin Doctor (p+d+y+c)
Marc Soulet (p+y+c)
Cyril Henny (p)
Carsten Johansson (p+y+c)
Stefan Brugger (p+d+y+c)
Paul Colteloni (p+d+y+c)
Hans Walter (y+c)
Gunter Janger (d+y+c)
Claude Haldi (y+c)
Walter Smolej (p+y+c)
Andrzej Jaroszewicz (y+c)
Brian Nelson (p+d+y+c)
Manfred Hero (p+y+c)
Philippe Roux (y+c)
Bert Dolk (p+d+y+c)
Cahal Curley (p+d+y+c)
Jean Marie Carron (p+y+c)
Tomasz Ciecierzynski (p+y+c)
Rainer Altenheimer (p+d+y+c)

and some more recent :
Ferenc Kiss (p+d+y+c)
István Rado (p+d+y+c)
Per Svan (y+c)
Ian Greer (p+d+y+c)
Margus Murakas (c)
Hans Stacey (p+y+c)
Ali Deveci (c)
Mark Breijer (p+c)
Martin Knajzl (c)
Eddie Horbing (p+y+c)
Ilia Tsarski (y+c)
Mirko Martinovic (c)
Eric Wewers (c)
Radim Spurek (p+d+y+c)
Csaba Spitzmuller (c)
Pascal Achen (c)
Jan de Winkel (p+y+c)
Olivier Gillet (c)
Vlodimir Petrenko (p+d+y+c)
Tomaz Kaucic (p+d+y+c)
Radoslav Kozlekov (p+d+y+c)
Aleksandr Saliuk (p+d+y+c)
Tomislav Cilencek (p+d+y+c)
Manu Guigou (p+d+y+c)
Yuri Protasov (p+d+y+c)
Bernd Casier (p+y+c)

Thanks in advance
Best regards
jorge

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jrally

Does soemone knows the following items (place of birth (p), date of birth (d), year of first rally (y) and first car (c) of :


Tomaz Kaucic (p+d+y+c)

Tomislav Cilencek (p+d+y+c)



Thanks in advance
Best regards
jorge

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Kaučič : first car Renault Clio S1600 (not sure)

Cilenšek : 23.5.1976,first rally in 2000 INA Delta Rally,Peugeot 106

Thanks, urabus-denoS2000 !

Best regards
jorge

I am afraid Jorge, that asking for date of birth you know the year diver was born. I can add only birthyears of few drivers you asked:
Morley 1931, Russling 1941, Coltelloni 1921, Janger 1942.
Years of debutes: de Jong 1986, Hörbing 1979, de Winkel 1988.
About Jaroszewicz I have an interview with him and he says he started rallying as he only got a driving licence at age of 16 (so 1962 and no car mentioned). As far as I know it was not possible to do "real" rallies until you get a rally licence. It was possible after a practice in "open" rallies (more fun than sport a kind of slalom or gymkhana). I believe he got rally licence as fast as possible and he did few regional rallies (still no car mentioned). The first rally in Polish Rally Championship he claims to be a Winter Rally based in Rzeszow. So it was 1964 and car was polish made Syrena.
About Ciecierzynski. He started as as a co-driver in 1964. In Polish Rally Championship he apppeared as a driver in 1973 (Alfa Romeo 1750).
One more note: according to Ukrainian language Petrenko's first name should be Volodymyr.
Regards
Janusz

Thank You very much, Janusz !

regards
jorge

And about these ones ?

Andreas Mikkelsen (p)
Mads Ostberg (p+c)

Thanks in advance
best regards
jorge

hi can any one help, with info on this rally,hunsruck rally i spectated on .entry list results, and phots if possible, i know weber .,beat demuth, and i have a few pics, but turn to you guys to offer help, thanks in advance :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by wotaguy

hi can any one help, with info on this rally,hunsruck rally i spectated on .entry list results, and phots if possible, i know weber .,beat demuth, and i have a few pics, but turn to you guys to offer help, thanks in advance :)

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From 'Audi Sport / World of Rallying 6':

http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/6...krallyehj9.jpg



Carles.

thank you carles, i found a pic of petersen, cheers andy :)

Tjeerd, (or anyone else who knows this) could you please post here or send me the locations of starts & finishes for the last 5 rallies of the 2007 WRC and the whole 2008?

Thank you!

I have also a question: Who was 29th in final classification of 23° Rally Internazionale San Martino di Castrozza in 2003? This was the 7th round for the Italian Rally Championship 2003 and the 26th round for the European Rally Championship 2003 (coefficient 5).

Was it #31 Pierleonardo Bancher/Giandomenico Longo with a Subaru Impreza WRX (N4) or #53 Luca Gobbo/Giorgio Simoni with a Citroën Saxo VTS (A6)?

Thank you very much in advance.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Wim_Impreza

I have also a question: Who was 29th in final classification of 23° Rally Internazionale San Martino di Castrozza in 2003? This was the 7th round for the Italian Rally Championship 2003 and the 26th round for the European Rally Championship 2003 (coefficient 5).

Was it #31 Pierleonardo Bancher/Giandomenico Longo with a Subaru Impreza WRX (N4) or #53 Luca Gobbo/Giorgio Simoni with a Citroën Saxo VTS (A6)?

Thank you very much in advance.

---

From my archives (Final Classification) I can say it was GOBBO Luca/ SIMONI Giorgio Citroën Saxo Vts A6

Thank you, Harris.

can somebody help with the entrylist and / results of the Rally il Ciocco e Valle de Serchio 1981 ?

Thanks in advance
Stefanie

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tigger9232

can somebody help with the entrylist and / results of the Rally il Ciocco e Valle de Serchio 1981 ?

Thanks in advance
Stefanie

---

I've only found this:

http://rallybase.motorsportforum.com...1&d=1231056636



Carles.

Please help me with this results

1950 Sestriere 21- 22 January

Started 132 Arrived ? 2910 km

1° Emilio Christillin / Sandro Fiorio Lancia Aurelia GT
2° Emanuele Nasi / ? ? Fiat 1500 E
3° Emanuele Sartorio / ? ? Fiat 500 C
4° ? Ymot / ? ? Panhard Dyna
5° ? Locatelli / ? ? Studebacker
6° Ken Wharton / JJ. Langelaan Ford Pilot V8
7° ? ?
8° ? ?
9° ? ?
10° ? ?

1951 Sestriere date ???
Started ? Arrived ? Km ?]
Firts 10 place

1952 Sestriere ? - ? February

Started ? Arrived ? Km ?
]1° Gino Valenzano / Mario Poltronieri Lancia Aurelia B20
2° H. von Der Muhle/ ? Guilleaume Porsche 356 Coupè
3° Helmuth Polensky / Graf von Berkleim Porsche 356 Coupè
4° ? Bertone / ? Reynaldi Lancia Aurelia
5° R. Priodi / ?. Frajria Lancia Aurelia
6° ?. Fusar Poli / ?. Zagato Lancia Aurelia
7° Ferdinando Gatta / ? . Orlandi Fiat 1400
8° ? ? / ? ? ?
9° ? ? / ? ? ?
10° ?? / ?? ?

Sestriere date ????
1)Gert Seibert/A. Holz – Citroen 15/6,
2). Scala/Mazzone – Lancia ??
3). Damonte/Marsaglia – Lancia ???
4). Valenzano/Sponsetti – Lancia ??
5). Maranzana/Carlotti – Panhard ???
6). Emilio Christillin/Sandro Fiorio – Lancia ????
7). Ferdinando Gatta/Orlandi – lancia Aurelia
8)???/??? ???
9)???/??? ???
10)??/??? ???

Thanks in advance
sorry for very bad english :eek:

Tjeerd, are you around?

Thanks Charles Bosch 02.

I saw a Drivercard ( normally in the rearwindow to show Driver and Co driver ) from Michele Cinotto in a Audi there, so my hope was to find out a bit more about place or retirement of him.

Regards
Stefanie

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tigger9232

Thanks Charles Bosch 02.

I saw a Drivercard ( normally in the rearwindow to show Driver and Co driver ) from Michele Cinotto in a Audi there, so my hope was to find out a bit more about place or retirement of him.

Regards
Stefanie

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Hi Tigger9232 !
This weekend I will try to find what You're looking for !

Best regards
Jorge

Stefanie, please, send me a PM with your mail that I was able to find what you were looking for !

Best regards
jorge

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tigger9232

Thanks Charles Bosch 02.

I saw a Drivercard ( normally in the rearwindow to show Driver and Co driver ) from Michele Cinotto in a Audi there, so my hope was to find out a bit more about place or retirement of him.

Regards
Stefanie

---

Stefanie,
Michele Cinotto and Emilio Radaelli were number 10 but they went off road even before the rally start. If interests Reg. Nº IN NW61 !

Best regards
jorge