Sorry, but I have 5-bucks that says Champ Car does not answer the bell in 2008...

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Originally Posted by BrentJackson

Dual sponsor targeting North America and Europe. Sponsoring for real money a series in this shape? Mike, I know you are a CC backer, but you're flippin' drunk if you think that CC will find a title sponsor by trying to shoot the gap between the two continents. It's not gonna happen.

I will reiterate. Europe is a WASTE OF TIME AND MONEY FOR CCWS. Yes, Assen was a success, but that was a stupidly easy one to do. Zolder didn't work terribly well, did it? And for the teams in CCWS, are they likely to get psonsors based on 3-4 Euro rounds? Not likely. And unfortunately, those rounds drive off what few NA sponsors we have left.

The heck with Assen and Zolder. In a few years when this series is back on its feet, then consider Europe. Until then, North America is the future.

PERIOD.

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Brent as usual we disagree.
NASCAR America dominates the racing dollar.
Champ Car should and will take the opportunity to expand into the world market. Rather than take what is left after NASCAR America drains the racing dollar and battling the confusing split thing, Champ Car can solicit foreign money that does not care about NASCAR or the split. With foreign sponsors Champ Car can stabilize the North American market and give the foreign sponsors the opportunity to promote in North America.

The WORLD in Champ Car World Series is exactly what is needed to boost the bottom line for Champ Car.

Zolder worked well even with the high ticket prices. The high ticket price was the number one problem with attendance. In 2008 Zolder should spread the ticket price so more race fans can attend.

The goal of Champ Car is to have 50% of it's races in North America and 50% in the world. With NASCAR America dominating the USA, Champ Car needs to capture the world racing dollar that has been opened up by F1. The F1 venues are in constant flux going after the high dollar. They are dropping venues that can no longer afford F1 and Champ Car can come in and make those venues profitable. The World is a win win for Champ Car because as I said race fans in Europe don't care about the split or NASCAR. Plus, they support their home town teams and drivers.

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Originally Posted by ChaimWitz

mark123, you bring up an interesting comparison:

Mid-Ohio
2003 Champ Car Pole: 1:07.058 secs, P. Tracy, Lola Ford
2007 Indy Car Pole: 1:06:8375 secs, H. Castroneves, Dallara Honda
2003 Champ Car Fast Race Lap: 1:08.366 secs, J. Vasser, Reynard Ford
2007 Indy Car Fast Race Lap : 1:08.00 secs, D. Franchitti, Dallara Honda

Milwaukee Mile
2006 Champ Car Pole: 21.182 secs, S. Bourdais, Lola Ford
2007 Indy Car Pole: 21.3596 secs, H. Castroneves, Dallara Honda
2006 Champ Car Fast Race Lap: 22.285 secs, S. Bourdais, Lola Ford
2007 Indy Car Fast Race Lap: 22.2017 secs, D. Wheldon, Dallara Honda

No push-to-pass and less HP but the times are virtually identical. It does make you think, doesn't it?

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With the MidOhio numbers it does make me think. It makes me think you don't have a clue. MidOhio had a major repavement job done between 2003 and 2007. The numbers are meaningless.

And with Milwaukee, hmmm let's see with all the extra downforce and 100% throttle, no need to lift for the corners, you'd think the IRL times would be even bettter wouldn't you? I would.

Gary

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Originally Posted by pits4me

You might want to check the track distance ChaimWitz. The IRL uses a different method than Champ Car.

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I know that's true of the ovals. I think for MidOhio they both used the same distance. Did they use the kink before the keyhole?

Gary

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Originally Posted by mike15

Brent as usual we disagree.
NASCAR America dominates the racing dollar.
Champ Car should and will take the opportunity to expand into the world market. Rather than take what is left after NASCAR America drains the racing dollar and battling the confusing split thing, Champ Car can solicit foreign money that does not care about NASCAR or the split. With foreign sponsors Champ Car can stabilize the North American market and give the foreign sponsors the opportunity to promote in North America.

The WORLD in Champ Car World Series is exactly what is needed to boost the bottom line for Champ Car.

Zolder worked well even with the high ticket prices. The high ticket price was the number one problem with attendance. In 2008 Zolder should spread the ticket price so more race fans can attend.

The goal of Champ Car is to have 50% of it's races in North America and 50% in the world. With NASCAR America dominating the USA, Champ Car needs to capture the world racing dollar that has been opened up by F1. The F1 venues are in constant flux going after the high dollar. They are dropping venues that can no longer afford F1 and Champ Car can come in and make those venues profitable. The World is a win win for Champ Car because as I said race fans in Europe don't care about the split or NASCAR. Plus, they support their home town teams and drivers.

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I agree with most of what you are saying, however, if Champ Car fails at home (U.S.), will it matte what happens overseas? Yes, NASCAR dominates the American market, but that does not mean that there are not companies that are willing to take a risk in CC. I would love to see foreign sponsors strengthen our series so that we can make our current American venues stronger. I am afraid that if we start 'challenging' F1, then will certainly be in trouble.

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Originally Posted by ChaimWitz

Regardless, the lap times are very close and frankly, a one-two second difference in lap times is not obvious to most fans.

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Can I get an AMEN, brothers and sisters? I think you can push that number a bit further even. Run them on one day at a given speed, and then a day latter at 4-5 seconds slower and 85-95% of the fans would never know the difference.

Gary

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Originally Posted by Rogelio

Champ Car can survive without the I-500.

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My hatred for "...king George" and his "vision" is well known here, but if you REALLY believe that quote above... well sorry but you are delusional.

Open wheel sponsorship on any REAL scale revolves around the I500. Period.

I hate the fact that I have to admit that. But I do, and have for a very long time. Just look at the sidepods on the two series and count the number of RECOGNIZABLE names. I am talking names known to your next door neighbor who doesn't follow racing. Which of the two series has the higher count and by what sort of margin? And why do you think that is? Because "...king George" is a brilliant business man, or these sponsors want to be a part of a race in Iowa? No it comes down to one event, remove that event and see how many of these same sponsors remain in the IRL for more than 30 seconds.

Gary

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Originally Posted by BrentJackson

Mike, I know you are a CC backer, but you're flippin' drunk if you think that CC will find a title sponsor by trying to shoot the gap between the two continents.

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UNLESS, they find a company with feet firmly planted on both continents. Someone like Proctor and Gamble who have a huge presence in both places. Not that THAT is going to happen, mind you. Only saying that it is POSSIBLE to find a title sponsor, but the field is narrowed considerably when the two continents are involved like this.

Gary

Reading some of theses post, the phrase "looking at the world through rose-colored glasses" comes to mind. While being positive and supporting your favorite series is admirable, denying reality doesn't change reality. "Denial ain't just a river in Egypt." seems to fit here.

Keep channeling those positive thoughts. Perhaps a few incantations will help too. Nothing else seems to have worked very well for CC.

Here's the problem with trying to be all things to all people all the time:

Global sponsors are decentralized into different geographic areas. Marlboro Europe might be interested in a European race or two, but it does Marlboro Europe no good to be exposed in Portland. This is what happened to Penske when CART started going outside the U.S. boundaries. Marlboro USA was sponsoring Penske. Surfers, Japan and Canada were "throwaways" that they were paying for anyway.

European sponsors for a few races to drop a Jan Heylen in a seat, then when the money runs out, find a Mario Dominguez with some bucks....sorry.....I just don 't think that's going to get it.

And what "business" does Gommendy hafta conduct that he can't make it to Surfers. "Something's happenin' here and what it is ain't exactly clear".....as the song goes.

[quote="garyshell"]My hatred for "...king George" and his "vision" is well known here, but if you REALLY believe that quote above... well sorry but you are delusional.

Open wheel sponsorship on any REAL scale revolves around the I500. Period.

I hate the fact that I have to admit that. But I do, and have for a very long time. Just look at the sidepods on the two series and count the number of RECOGNIZABLE names. I am talking names known to your next door neighbor who doesn't follow racing. Which of the two series has the higher count and by what sort of margin? And why do you think that is? Because "...king George" is a brilliant business man, or these sponsors want to be a part of a race in Iowa? No it comes down to one event, remove that event and see how many of these same sponsors remain in the IRL for more than 30 seconds.
Gary[/qote]


Yes, that one event is important but that does not explain Champ Car's many woes. When CART lost the I-500 they were still a strong racing series without the big race. Unfortuantely, the loss of major teams to the IRL, poor management, then the Amigos have all led Champ Car to its sad state of affairs. NASCAR's race at Indy is more popular than the IRL's race there.

My point is that if CC played its cards right, and it has not, we could overcome the loss of the I-500. We did so in the first years without the race. We should have stuck with Michigan or created another race.