Perhaps, although his peers and team-mates had a different view.Quote:
Originally Posted by Garry Walker
Jody Scheckter:
"Gilles is...the fastest Formula One driver nowadays."
Carlos Reutemann:
"One year in Formula 1 was enough for him to become one of the fastest drivers in the world."
Keke Rosberg:
"He was the greatest ******* I could race against and that I ever met, but he was absolutely fair. A great driver."
It is a damn shame that facts outweigh opinions.Quote:
Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1
Please tell us when Gilles was outperformed by a team mate with a similar car. Obviously, you have to exclude the first two or three races in a team when he was feeling his way.Quote:
Originally Posted by Garry Walker
1978 - Carlos Reutemann beat Gilles, supposedly top 3 of all times due to his raw speed, in qual 12:4.Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Type
Points wise it was 48:17 for Reutemann and it wasnt due to difference in mechanical problems, that was 3:2.
Reutemann in 1977 had been destroyed by Lauda, bigtime.
In 1979, with Schekter being a newcomer to Ferrari, GV managed to outqualify him only 8:7 and ended up losing points wise. The year after that, with Ferrari sucking bigtime and JS losing motivation and drive, only then did GV manage to start beating Schekter.
Even out of 6 wins GV achieved in his career, the first one at Canada in 1978 was inherited due to Jariers oil leak, the USA east gp in 1979 he won due to Jones`car suffering a mechanical problem, the Monaco win in 1981 was inherited due to Jones suffering problems and the Jarama one the same year was inherited again due to problems for Jones.
So 4 lucky wins out of 6.
GV is probably the most overrated driver in F1 history and by a huge margin.
I agree with Garry in a sense. He was a bloody quick driver but he was "too brave" and inconsistent. Everybody loves the way he chucked his way around the corners and for being brave, but in the end this cost him his life. Maybe with a few more seasons experience he would have settled down.
You give the stats against the likes of Reutemann and Scheckter, and yet those same drivers considered GV to one of the fastest drivers they raced against, as did many of his peers. Add to that Keke Rosberg's comment and that's enough for me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Garry Walker
As for "4 lucky wins out of 6"...take any driver you care to mention and you could say much the same. Fact is, for much of his F1 career GV rarely had a car capable of winning races. Yes, in 1979 when Ferrari introduced the 312T4 the car was a winner, and Gilles won its first two races, leading Scheckter home, but other than that we never got the chance to see what he might have done with a car that was the anything like the class of the field.
His 1981 victories, in particular, were remarkable. In Monaco Pironi qualified 2.5s slower in the same car, and was a lap down at the finish. In Spain GV only qualified 7th, but Pironi was 0.7s slower in 13th, and ended the race 4 laps behind. The 126CK was recognised as being an awful car, and Pironi's performances showed where the car should have been, but Villeneuve won 2 races with it.
I think this is a misconception about Villeneuve. He was as capable of 'managing' a race as anyone (Jarama being an example), but because of the cars at his disposal invariably he had to push harder to get anywhere near the front. Had he been in a Williams in 1980/1, for example, we would have seen his consistency and combined with his speed it probably would have made for a winning combination.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bezza
He was also more interested in racing than championships. As he once said: "How the hell can you drive a race car, fight with people - and think all the time about points for a bloody championship? How can you settle for a 'safe' third place or something, because it's four points...? Jesus, people like that should be accountants, not racing drivers..."
He may well have been the fastest 'reaction-time' driver, but that qoute is all the evidence needed to prove that he was not a complete driver or, for that matter, even a very bright driver.Quote:
Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1
That remark is actually the remark of a moron.
Well, yes, you make a fair point. But a gutsy 'give it all' driver is a crowd pleaser.Quote:
Originally Posted by tamburello
I would prefer purist to moron, as to class Gilles as an imbecille is a little below the belt....
Definitely a gutsy brave driver, but he did take it too far, and in the end this cost him his life.
I think this is a measure of the way that our sport and the perception of it has evolved.Quote:
Originally Posted by tamburello
At Silverstone in 1950, every driver on the field was thinking something like "I intend to finish as high in this race as I can" or in the case of some of the amateurs simply: "I am going to enjoy myself driving my car fast". I doubt that any of them were consciously aware that they were competing for the World Drivers' Championship.
Nowadays the Championship has become an end in itself and the 'point counter' mentality has evolved.
I'm old-fashioned and think that a driver's motive should still be to compete in a race and the Championship points should be a secondary consideration. I can't agree that a driver who wants to race is a moron or an incomplete driver.