Getting infractions for no reason

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Originally Posted by Garry Walker

Well well. Some points.
1) Lately I was given an infraction by Pino, when I asked for an explanation and for him to show me the quote where I insulted the person I had supposedly insulted (it was good old flat.tyres :D ), he did not respond to my PM.
2) With Arrows leaving the moderation team, I quite frankly have to say I think the moderation will improve greatly and personal bias will come into play less than it did before. So that is positive.
3) Much like flat.tyres, I also am a direct person and say what I think, without holding back or trying to be "nice". With that certainly sometimes come harsh remarks on people, but when I see someone being so obviously being intellectually dishonest and stupid, I will not hold back. I think that is a very good quality in a person and while in the current nanny state of world, speaking your mind and saying how it really is, is considered a sin, I raise my hands and salute that quality in people. I have no time for mollycoddling, especially when dealing with supposedly adults. My personal view is that the infraction given to Flat.tyres really was not justified, but fair play to the admins, it is not my decision. While I wouldnt encourage swearing, I dont think words such as **** and bull**** are bad at all. You hear language much more colourful in a school-class filled by 11 year olds.

Added to that, Flatty is a good addition, because unlike some "respected" posters here, he usually doesnt run away from a debate when confronted with an opinion contradictory to his. That said, I would be intimidated to debate myself as well :D

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We do tend to sling mud at each other with gay abandon but no matter how heated, I don't think either of us take any personal insult from our exchanges.

I know what you mean about asking for clarification as I too find that frustrating when you ask for justification as to where exactly you have sinned and normally get ignored or pointed at some arbitary post about playing nice. What is "nice" and what is heated debate because sometimes I think Mods tend to be a bit heavy handed if something gets passionate. A bit of sledging, banter or light-hearted mickey taking adds to the colour of the forum in my opinion. If someone was being personally insulting in a bitter way then I could understand it but most of the time it's obvious it's horseplay (apart from to the most sensitive on here :rolleyes: )

Let me give you an example. On one heated exchange where someone was being particulaly banal and dogmatic, I suggested to them that they "get a life or get laid" in what was ment to be a spirited dig. [MOD edit] After a discussion with the the member in PM's i wanted to withdraw that comment[/MOD edit]

I then contacted the Mods, explained the situation and asked them to immediatly remove the unintended distressing post which they did and in the process, gave me 3 points :rolleyes:

Now, I'm a big boy and 3 points isn't gonna make me curl up in a ball and cry but I think the example clerely demonstrates how the infraction system is being abused. There was no offence ment in the post, no swearing but there was a lighthearted dig that if I remember correctly, was accompanied by smilies to qualify it was not serious.

I suppose we should all remember that big brother is watching and a bit of banter and humour is not tollerated from some members while it seems lying and trolling is perfectly accepted from others :rolleyes:

flat.tyres
You should also have have remembered that not too many days before that i specifically asked you to lay off the personal issues and continue with a more civil manner.
Which you agreed to do, were you lying then?
while I do appreciate you wanting to remove that message, the infraction was IMO deserved.

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Originally Posted by janneppi

Now were getting somewhere, where do personally you draw a line between blunt and polite discussion and an insult?
Obviously it's somewhere between you saying someone talks" BS" YET AGAIN and me saying that responding to infactions using terms like pathetic infraction system it's is frankly nauseating as being a being similar what spoilt girls moan when things don't go in their favour.

One thing more, I was here in the bad old days when F1 forum was split into two separate sub forums, one with Ferrari discussion and other without it, if keeping this place ending up like it was then means sometimes heavy handed tactics to put out fires before they go out of control, it needs to be done because it was really hurting the forum then.

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If I'm talking Bull (am I allowed to write that?) then I have no problem with people saying it as long as they back it up. If I write a deliberate lie, then I expect to be hauled over the coals as everything I write, I can generally back up unless it's priviliged information which I usually qualify at the time of writing.

When we have a Moderator on here that is handing out infraction because I point out someone is lying and talking Bull (I do hope I don't get 3 points every time I write Bull), saying it is insulting other member, and then uses insulting language when I question his decision, then yes, I find that grossly hypocritical and wonder what the hell is going on here. Bit like a copper stopping you for doing 31 in a 30 and then driving off through red lights to get off shift on time. ;)

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and yet, you tend behave like a spoilt little girl when you get a fine for stepping out of line, if you're blunt, you can expect a blunt response from others.

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Now were getting somewhere, where do personally you draw a line between blunt and polite discussion and an insult?
Obviously it's somewhere between you saying someone talks" BS" YET AGAIN and me saying that responding to infactions using terms like pathetic infraction system it's is frankly nauseating as being a being similar what spoilt girls moan when things don't go in their favour.

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OK, I raised a point in Forum Feedback in a calm and reasoned way. I have maintained that stance all the way through and have been perfectly civil even when Moderators start accusing me of behaving like a spoilt girl. My understanding of a spoilt girl is someone that whines, moans and screams rather than someone that objectivly raises a concern in a reasoned and polite manner quoting examples and providing quantifiable arguements. Do you agree?

The pathetic infraction system quote was part of a longer post where I pointed out that there were double standards on here, something that was later confirmed by Mark and the opinion of people like Daniel, and that if you are going to hand out points to someone for a perceived offence where others that aren't on your hit list will not be punished in a similar manner, then I find that pathetic and nauseating. That is my opinion and is not insulting to anyone in any way.

I ask you again then, point out where I have behaved like a spoilt girl and if you cannot, then please treat me with the respect I offer you in replying to my posts or give yourself 3 points for personal comments and insulting remarks because if I had written it in a reply on the F1 forum, I bet I would get another 3 points wouldn't I ;)

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Originally Posted by Flat.tyres

The pathetic infraction system quote was part of a longer post where I pointed out that there were double standards on here, something that was later confirmed by Mark...

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Where did Mark confirm that ? :confused: missing a post doesn't mean double standard. Let me remind you once again that we Mod have private lives and cannot be here all the time and read every posts. As for your attitude in here, you've been given point-infractions from 3 different Mods, do I need to say more ? :s

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Originally Posted by Flat.tyres

If I'm talking Bull (am I allowed to write that?) then I have no problem with people saying it as long as they back it up. If I write a deliberate lie, then I expect to be hauled over the coals as everything I write, I can generally back up unless it's priviliged information which I usually qualify at the time of writing.

When we have a Moderator on here that is handing out infraction because I point out someone is lying and talking Bull (I do hope I don't get 3 points every time I write Bull), saying it is insulting other member, and then uses insulting language when I question his decision, then yes, I find that grossly hypocritical and wonder what the hell is going on here. Bit like a copper stopping you for doing 31 in a 30 and then driving off through red lights to get off shift on time. ;)



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OK, I raised a point in Forum Feedback in a calm and reasoned way. I have maintained that stance all the way through and have been perfectly civil even when Moderators start accusing me of behaving like a spoilt girl. My understanding of a spoilt girl is someone that whines, moans and screams rather than someone that objectivly raises a concern in a reasoned and polite manner quoting examples and providing quantifiable arguements. Do you agree?

The pathetic infraction system quote was part of a longer post where I pointed out that there were double standards on here, something that was later confirmed by Mark and the opinion of people like Daniel, and that if you are going to hand out points to someone for a perceived offence where others that aren't on your hit list will not be punished in a similar manner, then I find that pathetic and nauseating. That is my opinion and is not insulting to anyone in any way.

I ask you again then, point out where I have behaved like a spoilt girl and if you cannot, then please treat me with the respect I offer you in replying to my posts or give yourself 3 points for personal comments and insulting remarks because if I had written it in a reply on the F1 forum, I bet I would get another 3 points wouldn't I ;)

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Don't put words in my mouth! :mark: I am in absolutely no way representative of the management of this forum and any moderator or admin (fancy moderator :p ) will confirm this!!!! :mark:
I merely said you've made yourself a target and more users are going to report your posts if they offend rather than someone who rarely uses bad language. If you make yourself a target you're always going to attract more attention from the authorities. Why is it so hard to just straighten up and fly right? You'll have more fun, get less grief from mods and there will be no need for all this fuss.

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Originally Posted by pino

Let me remind you once again that we Mod have private lives and cannot be here all the time and read every posts.

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Exactly, now if you want more comprehensive moderation, I can ship out my Matlab and CAD files for the members to process while I browse the forums in the office. Overtime and night shifts will cost extra. :p :

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Originally Posted by pino

Where did Mark confirm that ? :confused: missing a post doesn't mean double standard. Let me remind you once again that we Mod have private lives and cannot be here all the time and read every posts. As for your attitude in here, you've been given point-infractions from 3 different Mods, do I need to say more ? :s

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Mark said, in effect, that if you have infractions, the Mods will keep a closer eye on you.

Now, this is fine in itself because nobody likes people on here that are purposely insulting and trolling. However, as I pointed out, and mave justified, some people here are singled out for points for the smallest things such as saying someone was talking Bull (different word used.)

I'm really enjoying this discussion because it highlights the disparity on the forum. I was given points by Arrows that I totally agreed with. I learnt that some things are tolerated and where the line was. I had rather a good dialogue with Arrows and think he was justified in giving me the points.

That is where your arguement falls down Pino. I guess I am not the first person to have points on here and all the good boys and girls that didn't get further points from different Moderators were lucky they didn't come up against you two because between you, you have awarded me 6 points for what at the very most could be called minor infractions.

1. Accusing someone of talking Ball when it was blindingly obvious they were lying. I have seen numerous occassions of people using that word in the asterix guise with no retribution whatsoever, let alone 3 points.

2. By making a cheeky comment to someone that turned out to have a whole different meaning to them because of their personal situation which nobody here would know about. I tried to remedy the situation by having the unintentionally distressing term removed and got a further 3 points for my trouble.

So, dear Pino and Jan, that is why I have 8 points on my licence instead of 2 and a reputation of being someone that has been sanctioned by 3 different Mods instead of 1. Yet, you sit there, quite happy and reply there is no double standards and you're quite happy with the situation.

All I'm trying to point out is that in an open forum like this, people will question you if they feel you are being discriminatory against them. When you keep coming back with the "thats the way it is so hard luck" stuff and childish insults, you confirm my position.

As I say, I'm enjoying this as I have the moral high ground. I maintain that by and large, what I have seen of the Moderating, I have been very impressed but that is not to say that sometimes it warrents questioning, unless, of course, you're perfect and don't make mistakes ;)

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Originally Posted by janneppi

Exactly, now if you want more comprehensive moderation, I can ship out my Matlab and CAD files for the members to process while I browse the forums in the office. Overtime and night shifts will cost extra. :p :

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Hey, no problemo bro. My shredder processes most things. Ship 'em over :D

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Originally Posted by Flat.tyres

Mark said, in effect, that if you have infractions, the Mods will keep a closer eye on you.

Now, this is fine in itself because nobody likes people on here that are purposely insulting and trolling. However, as I pointed out, and mave justified, some people here are singled out for points for the smallest things such as saying someone was talking Bull (different word used.)

I'm really enjoying this discussion because it highlights the disparity on the forum. I was given points by Arrows that I totally agreed with. I learnt that some things are tolerated and where the line was. I had rather a good dialogue with Arrows and think he was justified in giving me the points.

That is where your arguement falls down Pino. I guess I am not the first person to have points on here and all the good boys and girls that didn't get further points from different Moderators were lucky they didn't come up against you two because between you, you have awarded me 6 points for what at the very most could be called minor infractions.

1. Accusing someone of talking Ball when it was blindingly obvious they were lying. I have seen numerous occassions of people using that word in the asterix guise with no retribution whatsoever, let alone 3 points.

2. By making a cheeky comment to someone that turned out to have a whole different meaning to them because of their personal situation which nobody here would know about. I tried to remedy the situation by having the unintentionally distressing term removed and got a further 3 points for my trouble.

So, dear Pino and Jan, that is why I have 8 points on my licence instead of 2 and a reputation of being someone that has been sanctioned by 3 different Mods instead of 1. Yet, you sit there, quite happy and reply there is no double standards and you're quite happy with the situation.

All I'm trying to point out is that in an open forum like this, people will question you if they feel you are being discriminatory against them. When you keep coming back with the "thats the way it is so hard luck" stuff and childish insults, you confirm my position.

As I say, I'm enjoying this as I have the moral high ground. I maintain that by and large, what I have seen of the Moderating, I have been very impressed but that is not to say that sometimes it warrents questioning, unless, of course, you're perfect and don't make mistakes ;)

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You do NOT have the moral high ground. If you truly believe that you are extremely delusional.

I myself have been stupid enough to have been banned about half a dozen times and although I will admit I've disagreed with one or two of those bans (water under the bridge though) I realised that I'm here in Mark's forum which Mark owns and which is run by Mark and people that Mark has appointed so if I want to stay here I have to play by Mark's rules and if Mark dictates that people who have been banned or been given points previously be treated more harshly then so be it! As Mark quite rightly points out this forum is not a democracy and we're not all equal. You do as the mods say and if you don't you pay the price.

Just play nice and it'll all be good! Could it get any easier and straight forward than that? :mark:

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Originally Posted by Daniel

Don't put words in my mouth! :mark: I am in absolutely no way representative of the management of this forum and any moderator or admin (fancy moderator :p ) will confirm this!!!! :mark:
I merely said you've made yourself a target and more users are going to report your posts if they offend rather than someone who rarely uses bad language. If you make yourself a target you're always going to attract more attention from the authorities. Why is it so hard to just straighten up and fly right? You'll have more fun, get less grief from mods and there will be no need for all this fuss.

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What I find fascinating is that a young man such as yourself feels sufficiently empowered to preach how you feel people should behave to get the maximum out of this forum. :)

Believe you me my dear boy, I have my full facalties about me and need no guidence on how to make friends and influence people. Even from someone with such unique and extensive experience on rubbing people up the wrong way and getting banned on a regular basis such as your good self.

A man can become rich on listening to good advice but a man can become poor on advice freely given ;) (Thats $20AUS or £2.24 for that little gem. Deposit it in my usual Swiss account please)