FIA sends spy case to Court of Appeal

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Originally Posted by trevortherevver

I agree with his whistleblower statements. How could they give away their source and expect others to blow the whistle in other cheats? This is written into the law of some countries to protect whistleblowers so Are people complaining that McLaren told the FIA about an illegal car while not complaining about Ferrari running an illegal car in the first place? Coughlan was told to not have any contact with Stepney after Stepney told him about the floor and wing. There is nothing about Coughlan having Ferrari documents at that time.

If Stepney did pass secrets to McLaren, why has he not been charged? They were quick enough to charge the Ferrari people who were accused of taking secrets to Toyota a few years back.

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Here are a couple of definitions for you:

Whistleblower - A person who reports misconduct in his organization to the proper authorities.

Spy - A person who gives or sells information from one organization to a competing organization.

If I work for Ford Motor Company and I see something illegal going on, I will call an attorney, the police, or the federal authorities. I would not call General Motors! That's the difference between a whistleblower and a spy! Is THAT example easy enough to understand???

Point 2 - Stepney has been charged and awaits a trial/hearing in Italy.

Anything else that needs correcting????

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Originally Posted by ioan

Think again.

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Ioan is right. Hey, here´s an idea: registrate again and start posting bs, so no one will know who you really are.

(dont worry "trevor", no one cares)

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Originally Posted by trevortherevver

To say that RD could not help himself from a public and highly emotional comment is a bit rich considering all the statements from Ferrari and the words they use. While it's interesting to read another side of the argument, I rather wish that he had kept quiet until the appeal. Rather more dignified that way.

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Sure, when RD is stating things publicly it's OK but when when Ferrari expressed themselves it was bad for the sport. :rolleyes:

I also have a problem understanding why his letter was addressed to Macaluso and not to the FIA? Rony boy doesn't have the balls to directly take on Mosely? Why's that? If they are not guilty as he states than why is he afraid?
Or is it just that well known hypocrite side of Ron who never addresses a matter directly?! ;)

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Originally Posted by ioan

I've almost forgot the link to the fairy tale:
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/61260

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Just as well you did because reading RD's entire letter explains McLaren's position clearly and fully.

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Originally Posted by trevortherevver

To say that RD could not help himself from a public and highly emotional comment is a bit rich considering all the statements from Ferrari and the words they use. While it's interesting to read another side of the argument, I rather wish that he had kept quiet until the appeal.

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I agree. I was a little surprised to see McLaren responding, but you can understand why they have.

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Originally Posted by ioan

Sure, when RD is stating things publicly it's OK but when when Ferrari expressed themselves it was bad for the sport. :rolleyes:

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The public release of RD's letter comes after a week that has seen a number of Ferrari statements criticising the FIA decision, and repeating as yet unfounded allegations against McLaren. In those circumstances it's hard to see a CEO of any company sitting back and allowing such allegations to go unchallenged.

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Originally Posted by ioan

I also have a problem understanding why his letter was addressed to Macaluso and not to the FIA? Rony boy doesn't have the balls to directly take on Mosely? Why's that? If they are not guilty as he states than why is he afraid?

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The letter was addressed to Macaluso simply because it is a response to Macaluso's own letter and the charges made in that letter. You may have noticed that copies were sent to Mosley and Todt.

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Originally Posted by wmcot

If I work for Ford Motor Company and I see something illegal going on, I will call an attorney, the police, or the federal authorities. I would not call General Motors! That's the difference between a whistleblower and a spy! Is THAT example easy enough to understand???

Anything else that needs correcting????

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Well, as a matter of fact, YEAH! :)
You could give Ralf Nader a ring.

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Originally Posted by Valve Bounce

Well, as a matter of fact, YEAH! :)
You could give Ralf Nader a ring.

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Speaking of Ralph Nader, I once saw a mint, early '60s Chevrolet Corvair driving around downtown Salt Lake City. It's license plate was "F NADER" :)

(Sorry, totally off topic, but I had to share it...)

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Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1

Just as well you did because reading RD's entire letter explains McLaren's position clearly and fully.

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I read all that ronspeak complete with spinning and BS! :p :

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Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1

I agree. I was a little surprised to see McLaren responding, but you can understand why they have.

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You didn't seem to be that understanding when Ferrari complained about the verdict, but you understand Ron's attacks and drivel! :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1

The public release of RD's letter comes after a week that has seen a number of Ferrari statements criticising the FIA decision, and repeating as yet unfounded allegations against McLaren. In those circumstances it's hard to see a CEO of any company sitting back and allowing such allegations to go unchallenged.

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Other excuses?!

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Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1

The letter was addressed to Macaluso simply because it is a response to Macaluso's own letter and the charges made in that letter. You may have noticed that copies were sent to Mosley and Todt.

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So is RD upset because Malacuso wanted a fair hearing for the case, or is he afraid that McLaren will get finally busted for spying on another team?
They've already been found guilty and now they will likely be punished too, and even if it will only be a fine (which will keep everyone happy) it will in fact leave no more doubts about McLaren being at fault in the whole affair!

He could have saved the money and the time of going to the copy shop to make those copies, Max and Todt also read newspapers! ;)

On another note, those who are critical of Ron Dennis should read Jean Todt's statement again:

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"...it should be noted that yesterday's meeting was not an appearance before a tribunal, but a meeting of the FIA World Council, at which only McLaren was asked to respond to accusations and in which we were present only as observers. Therefore there was no possibility to play an active role as we would have wished. I was only able to ask a few questions and reply to some, but we were not able to present our case nor the documents to support it."

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http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/61180

and ask themselves why Todt chose to miss out the fact that that Ferrari prepared and presented their evidence at the FIA hearing in the form of a 118-page document, and were allowed to cross-examine during a hearing that lasted in the region of five and half hours.

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Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1

On another note, those who are critical of Ron Dennis should read Jean Todt's statement again:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/61180

and ask themselves why Todt chose to miss out the fact that that Ferrari prepared and presented their evidence at the FIA hearing in the form of a 118-page document, and were allowed to cross-examine during a hearing that lasted in the region of five and half hours.

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If you think that 5 hours is enough to present what was in that 118 pages document alone than it's your problem.
It was a farce, you can't hear all, think about it and decide the right solution in that little time, unless it was decided before it even began.
And Bernie's comments plus the Spanish guy's comments suggested exactly that, it was all fixed.

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Originally Posted by ioan

If you think that 5 hours is enough to present what was in that 118 pages document alone than it's your problem.
It was a farce, you can't hear all, think about it and decide the right solution in that little time, unless it was decided before it even began.
And Bernie's comments plus the Spanish guy's comments suggested exactly that, it was all fixed.

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The problem is Ferrari's who have yet to produce the evidence to back up their very public allegations, despite being given the opportunity to do so (contrary to what Todt claims). They will have yet another opportunity to do so at the appeal and if they are able to produce anything new which proves that McLaren made use of Ferrari documents that were in Coughlan's possession then good for them. If that happens then McLaren deserve to be penalised.