Fox Hunting - Right or Wrong?

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Originally Posted by Dylan H

How about the human impact on those who would normally be employed looking after the dogs and horses involved in the hunt?

What about the hunting dogs, now there is no demand for them what will be done about them?

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Damned good questions. Sadly, they're the main reason I left the whole Hunting thing behind me, those two questions. The Countryside Alliance lied on both counts.

It was claimed 16,000, then later 12,000, people were employed by Fox Hunting in general and they'd lose their jobs. Rubbish, they are all still in the same jobs or ones like them. Riders still need all the same stuff and the actual Hunts employ about three people each so it's hardly a calamity if they had to move to other jobs.

The Hounds and horses are different. Horse prices dropped slightly for Hunter types and older general purpose riding horses suitable to Hunt a bit on. So what? Horse prices alter from day to day anyway. The Hounds are bred by the pack and already most of them end up being shot as they're either too old, too slow or too over bred. Simply breed less is the answer. The CA claimed 'many thousands' would be put to sleep, but as they are already what's the difference? :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Ian McC

The point almost has nothing to do with foxes, lets face it cars kill a lot more foxes than hunts, it could never seriously be considered a form of pest control, anyone saying that is just looking for excuses to justify hunting.

It comes down to killing animals for fun is wrong! We should have been around long enough to grow out of it.

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The League Against Cruel Sports said 70,000 plus foxes are killed each year on the roads and about 7,000 by Hunting. The CA roughly agreed at 7,000 for their annual kill.

There's 150 packs in the whole UK, each Hunting one, two or occasionally three days a week for about 22 weeks a year. The maths are impossible - Hunts cannot kill anything like 7,000 foxes. I would guess no more than a thousand, in a good year.

In all the years I Hunted I never, not once, became part of a day's killing. We just galloped about and pretended. One morning I was told to shut up when I said "there's a fox" and later the Field Master claimed a dead fox from the roadside as one we'd got. The fact that it had tyre marks over it's belly didn't stop him peeling it off the tarmac and waving it about at the land owner - who coughed up a bottle of good whisky in thanks :p :

Seriously, in my experince it's a farce and nobody kills anything but themselves. Some Hunts do kill of course, but I wouldn't go near them with a bargepole.

Thanks Hazell. The question about drag hunting is usually just dismissed with "it's not the same". I know that point to point is a completely different thing - it was just the "good day out" comment - obviously your explanation on drag hunting explained why that's not an alternative.

I must disagree about foxes stashing food though - it's well documented, although it is a much more short term thing than with squirrels.

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Originally Posted by Brown, Jon Brow

Not all farmers grow crops.

Take my brothers farm as a case. This year he has had over 700 lambs. The average value of a lamb is around £30. If 5% are killed by predators, then thats over £1000 lost every year.

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Townies don't get that. Chicken farms keep chickens, while arable farms grow crops. Hence chicken farmers love Hunting and arable farms don't.

Rabbits are a bloody menace to all land owners, but Hunts don't tend to go where rabbits are (and therefore foxes) as the danger of a horse sticking his leg down a rabbit run is too high. Hunting may be cruel to some, but breaking horses legs for fun is a damned sight more cruel.

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Originally Posted by Hazell B

Townies don't get that.

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That's true. We're an ignorant bunch. Mind you, we don't sleep with our relatives, so that's one thing in our favour.

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Originally Posted by CharlieJ

Thanks Hazell. The question about drag hunting is usually just dismissed with "it's not the same". I know that point to point is a completely different thing - it was just the "good day out" comment - obviously your explanation on drag hunting explained why that's not an alternative.

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There is a superb Drag pack near Sheffield, but frankly they're a snotty load of w***ers who charge too much and spend all morning moaning about their private school fees. That's why real humans don't Drag :p :

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I must disagree about foxes stashing food though - it's well documented, although it is a much more short term thing than with squirrels.

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Where's it documanted? Foxes kill, leave what they can't carry and that's that. They will return to a place they've been successful in, but then kill fresh chickens even if the dead ones are still there. Foxes are just big cats (though nearer to dogs gene-wise) who like fresh meat and warm food. I've never known a healthy one who can hunt live animals rely on roadkill for example. They pass roadkill outside my land every night to get to the rabbits half a mile further on ;)

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Originally Posted by BeansBeansBeans

That's true. We're an ignorant bunch. Mind you, we don't sleep with our relatives, so that's one thing in our favour.

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Funny that, the cases of incest average double in the inner city council estate than in villages. I read an article on it only a month or so ago. There's also mange (scabies) in inner cities than in the countryside where mange is common on animals ......

Or where you attempting a pathetic dig at country folk's simple life?

As you will see, I haven't got multi-quoting either!

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Originally Posted by Hazell B

Townies don't get that.

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This is the one thing in your various posts that I have a bit of an objection to. I come from what could be described as the countryside, but have lived in cities for quite a few years now, so I'm not sure which camp I fit into. I have always felt, since the hunting debate really started after Labour came to power, that the idea of there being a huge gulf between town and country, with neither understanding the other and our law-makers being just as divided, is not really true.

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Originally Posted by Hazell B

Damned good questions. Sadly, they're the main reason I left the whole Hunting thing behind me, those two questions. The Countryside Alliance lied on both counts.

It was claimed 16,000, then later 12,000, people were employed by Fox Hunting in general and they'd lose their jobs. Rubbish, they are all still in the same jobs or ones like them. Riders still need all the same stuff and the actual Hunts employ about three people each so it's hardly a calamity if they had to move to other jobs.

The Hounds and horses are different. Horse prices dropped slightly for Hunter types and older general purpose riding horses suitable to Hunt a bit on. So what? Horse prices alter from day to day anyway. The Hounds are bred by the pack and already most of them end up being shot as they're either too old, too slow or too over bred. Simply breed less is the answer. The CA claimed 'many thousands' would be put to sleep, but as they are already what's the difference? :rolleyes:

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Excellent points. I remember you posting things along these lines before. I certainly wasn't having a go at you in any of my anti-hunting comments ('for once', you might say...) because I know you've always said how you feel, and think it's very commendable.

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Originally Posted by Hazell B

Or where you attempting a pathetic dig at country folk's simple life?

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Let's not start an argument over a simple joke. I come from Norfolk, which is after all viewed as being the UK centre of inbreeding — largely, of course, because the county contains Sandringham — and I'm never offended by such comments. I think they can often be rather funny, because we all know that not everybody from rural areas is a backward cousin-s***ger.