Mercedes accused of illegal tyre testing by Red Bull & Ferrari

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Originally Posted by dj_bytedisaster

Not quite. The Email in parts was published in at least two publications available online (Motorsport Total, Autosport.com) and there is no indication given that the current car was meant to be run, so after a look into the regs, everyone will have come to the conclusion that the test is to be run with a car at least two years old. And that was over a year ago, too. And on top of that it was immediately followed up by an email from FOTA saying that such tests in-season are verboten. Not too difficult to see why most smaller teams didn't react, especially since the email asked for getting in contact with Pirelli if the team is interested. That to me implies not to react if you're not interested. Most smaller teams simply cannot afford to pull an old car out of mothballs ans cough up the money for a three day test, especially if they cannot expect to gain anything from it due to the car's age.
As I understand, the Merc test was the result of a renewed offer made this year and that offer was not made to all teams. At least Sauber, Lotus and Force India say so.

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Fair enough. But if you are offered to test, and it is NOT stipulated which car to use, and you still can't be bothered to respond, do you have the right to throw your toys out the pram when you don't get asked again?

The teams don't test development parts on an old car - it's pointless. So where does it follow that testing current tyres on an old car is acceptable? It isn't, it's just that the overpaid oiks running the show cannot agree on anything.

Is there any source for the claim Mercedes packed up and sneaked back 2 days after the Spanish GP to test? I've been searching and can't find anything on that, but its obviously been mentioned or dj_bytedisaster wouldn't have claimed it I assume.

If true it adds a whole new slant to the controversy and implicates Mercedes were more devious than the stories on mainstream sites are suggesting.

I think what will come out of all this, are agreements made between Charlie Whiting and Pirelli, that the FIA are unable to justify making. They just don't have the money to spend on legal advice that the teams do.

So, they give out advice to Paul Hembrey and to Ross Brawn on the 1000KM's in a current car, but have not made a watertight case on how a suitable team is to be selected.

Someones nose will always get out of joint.

The FIA have put their foot it (or at least Charlie has, yet again) and now they are trying to pass the buck and making look like Pirelli and or Mercedes are in the wrong.

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Originally Posted by henners88

Is there any source for the claim Mercedes packed up and sneaked back 2 days after the Spanish GP to test? I've been searching and can't find anything on that, but its obviously been mentioned or dj_bytedisaster wouldn't have claimed it I assume.

If true it adds a whole new slant to the controversy and implicates Mercedes were more devious than the stories on mainstream sites are suggesting.

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Of course they didn't - but isn't it a loverly idea. Paints pictures of devious Mercedes employees with thin mustachios!

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Originally Posted by henners88

Is there any source for the claim Mercedes packed up and sneaked back 2 days after the Spanish GP to test? I've been searching and can't find anything on that, but its obviously been mentioned or dj_bytedisaster wouldn't have claimed it I assume.

If true it adds a whole new slant to the controversy and implicates Mercedes were more devious than the stories on mainstream sites are suggesting.

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No, that's speculation on my part for a very simple reason. Mercedes claims they have left their kit standing right there in the paddock from sunday to friday - that's 5 days and nobody noticed anything? And I believe that Ferrari and Red Bull didn't know it, because they would have raised holy hell the moment they knew it. It's simply implausible that everyone packs up and Mercedes doesn't and nobody notices it.

What are the options at hand:

1. mercedes packed up like anyone else and came back on tuesday.
It's a plausible idea. Especially since I doubt they were using an engine and gearbox that count to the alotted contingent of the racing season, so it would make sense to retool the cars and come back.

2. They stayed
Put yourself in the shoes of RB or Ferrari. One of your competitors, that develops a nasty habit of locking out the front-row lately doesn't pack their stuff and looks like hanging out a bit longer. Would you seriously bugger off without leaving someone behind to look what they're doing? It's not their job, but I'm pretty sure Ferrari and RB would do exactly that and in the moment they would have spotted the W04, the excrement would have been launched on a collision course with the rotating air conditioning device.

I simply find it too implausible that Mercedes just stayed put and 10 teams didn't notice it.

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Originally Posted by dj_bytedisaster

No, that's speculation on my part for a very simple reason. Mercedes claims they have left their kit standing right there in the paddock from sunday to friday - that's 5 days and nobody noticed anything? And I believe that Ferrari and Red Bull didn't know it, because they would have raised holy hell the moment they knew it. It's simply implausible that everyone packs up and Mercedes doesn't and nobody notices it.

What are the options at hand:

1. mercedes packed up like anyone else and came back on tuesday.
It's a plausible idea. Especially since I doubt they were using an engine and gearbox that count to the alotted contingent of the racing season, so it would make sense to retool the cars and come back.

2. They stayed
Put yourself in the shoes of RB or Ferrari. One of your competitors, that develops a nasty habit of locking out the front-row lately doesn't pack their stuff and looks like hanging out a bit longer. Would you seriously bugger off without leaving someone behind to look what they're doing? It's not their job, but I'm pretty sure Ferrari and RB would do exactly that and in the moment they would have spotted the W04, the excrement would have been launched on a collision course with the rotating air conditioning device.

I simply find it too implausible that Mercedes just stayed put and 10 teams didn't notice it.

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Is Ted Kravits Spanish team roundup available anywhere - he normally wanders round the paddock team by team, and that would show whether or not Merc were doing headless chickens or lazing around in their laderhosen......

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Originally Posted by dj_bytedisaster

I simply find it too implausible that Mercedes just stayed put and 10 teams didn't notice it.

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Do you think the other teams knew Mercedes were staying behind to test as outlined in the Pirelli letter but were unaware they were using a 2013 spec car? Perhaps its the smaller details that have got Ferrari and Red Bull in a twist rather than your suggestion Mercedes packed up and returned? We have to remember that even if Mercedes were staying behind to test, much of their equipment like Motorhomes, lorries, and race personnel would have packed up and gone home to Blighty, only leaving behind essentials for running a test car.

Your first mention of this gave the impression it was a fact rather than speculation I must add.

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Originally Posted by henners88

Do you think the other teams knew Mercedes were staying behind to test as outlined in the Pirelli letter but were unaware they were using a 2013 spec car? Perhaps its the smaller details that have got Ferrari and Red Bull in a twist rather than your suggestion Mercedes packed up and returned? We have to remember that even if Mercedes were staying behind to test, much of their equipment like Motorhomes, lorries, and race personnel would have packed up and gone home to Blighty, only leaving behind essentials for running a test car.

Your first mention of this gave the impression it was a fact rather than speculation I must add.

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This is the thing. RB and Ferrari are either unbelievably naive or there's more to it. If I was a bigwig at either team, I would have left at least thre people back there to watch the test. After all, Mercedes isn't some stray dog they picked off the street. It's the one team that has threatened both of them so far this year. Ok, lets assume they believed Mercedes were doing a test in an old car. Would you as a Ferrari or RB hotshot shrug it off and go home or would you keep a close eye on how they're doing? Something doesn't add up. The fact that both the Ferrari test in Bahrain and the Merc test in Barcelona went largely unnoticed by both Media and other teams implies that both teams have taken measures to make sure they go unnoticed. The difference is, however, Ferrari followed the rules while Merc didn't.
If they had played with open cards, the fact that they were running 2013 cars would have been known on May 15th not due to a slip-up in a drivers meeting 10 days later.

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Originally Posted by dj_bytedisaster

This is the thing. RB and Ferrari are either unbelievably naive or there's more to it. If I was a bigwig at either team, I would have left at least thre people back there to watch the test. After all, Mercedes isn't some stray dog they picked off the street. It's the one team that has threatened both of them so far this year. Ok, lets assume they believed Mercedes were doing a test in an old car. Would you as a Ferrari or RB hotshot shrug it off and go home or would you keep a close eye on how they're doing? Something doesn't add up. The fact that both the Ferrari test in Bahrain and the Merc test in Barcelona went largely unnoticed by both Media and other teams implies that both teams have taken measures to make sure they go unnoticed. The difference is, however, Ferrari followed the rules while Merc didn't.

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I agree with much of that but its too early to claim Mercedes are to blame for the rule break. Ferrari and Red Bull claim to have followed the rules but this could be to add pressure onto Merc in hindsight, speculation of course. This could run deeper than that for all we know. Why were no FIA representatives present when it has been proven the dates of the test were made clear to the governing body? Surely above members of other teams there should have been an official FIA person present. It all seems very strange and I'm sure we'll find out more when somebody writes a book.

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Originally Posted by dj_bytedisaster

This is the thing. RB and Ferrari are either unbelievably naive or there's more to it. If I was a bigwig at either team, I would have left at least thre people back there to watch the test. After all, Mercedes isn't some stray dog they picked off the street. It's the one team that has threatened both of them so far this year. Ok, lets assume they believed Mercedes were doing a test in an old car. Would you as a Ferrari or RB hotshot shrug it off and go home or would you keep a close eye on how they're doing? Something doesn't add up. The fact that both the Ferrari test in Bahrain and the Merc test in Barcelona went largely unnoticed by both Media and other teams implies that both teams have taken measures to make sure they go unnoticed. The difference is, however, Ferrari followed the rules while Merc didn't.

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Red Bull and others are merely do what my kids do;

"Dad, he pushed me"

"why did you push your sister, Son"?

"because she pushed me"!

"You never told me he pushed you"

"You didn't ask"


All the teams knew the rub, but they might get something out of this if they try the 'heartstrings and soppy eyes' trick.

So now, the FIA will have to investigate their own permission. Do they then take themselves outside and kick themselves in the head ten times if they find themselves in the wrong???????? :p