Red Bull + Wings

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Originally Posted by truefan72

its easy to be a team player when the entire team is supporting you to the detriment of your teammate. When that team is quick to blame your teammate for a crash you caused. When your team brings two modified wings to the gp, you break yours and they give you your teammates. When your team tries to get your teammate to slow down so you can pass him, even though your teammate is leading the WDC and leading the bloody race.

yeah, its easy to be a team player if you are Vettel
not so much if you are Webber.
I'm no real fan of Webber but in this circumstance it is east to root for him as this situation is the closest thing we have to blatant team bias since the MSC/rubens partnership.

and like many, i am just curious to see what excuse RBR will give at Hockenheim to screw with Webber. The guy may be an arse but the team are clearly that plus the hole

btw there was no dirty laundry to air as it had been already hanging out for all to see.

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BINGO

(BTW--I ain't no fan of the Austrian bunch, although some may think so since I think webber was the one responsible for Turkey, but ever since they dumped Speed for that four eyed frenchie Seabutt or whoever, and brought in the snot nosed Vestall.....well if they want me to root for them, fire either Webber or Vestall or both of them and give me some Speed.... :D ---hades and heckfire, my special mix of kool aid is far better for you than that red cow piss....put some real manly hairs on your chest...just ask my wife)

meanwhile like little mice (or hamsters), Jennie and Lowie are now how far ahead of the Red Cow piss bunch??

Oh and BTW, if you ask her, she will tell you it works great...put many a hair on her chest

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Originally Posted by truefan72

its easy to be a team player when the entire team is supporting you to the detriment of your teammate. When that team is quick to blame your teammate for a crash you caused. When your team brings two modified wings to the gp, you break yours and they give you your teammates. When your team tries to get your teammate to slow down so you can pass him, even though your teammate is leading the WDC and leading the bloody race.

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Funny, you bring up Turkey as proof that there was already favoritism, that Vettel was already driver number one, do you know how dumb that sounds when you consider just 1 race prior, Mark won a red bull 1-2 in Monaco?!? And contrary to Red Bulls claim that Vettel's car was damaged, the manner of in which Webber won the race screams strategy was involved. If Vettel is clear #1, Red Bull would have manufactured a pit stop for Webber in Monaco.

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Originally Posted by truefan72

yeah, its easy to be a team player if you are Vettel
not so much if you are Webber.
I'm no real fan of Webber but in this circumstance it is east to root for him as this situation is the closest thing we have to blatant team bias since the MSC/rubens partnership.

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During the BBC coverage, they mentioned that after Friday practice, that both drivers had to be convinced the new wing was better. Considering there was only 1 left to last qualifying, and the race, I I would assume that should it be required to replace, it would probably compromise the setup to some small degree, I'm not even sure it was wise for Vettel to use it, but during Red Bulls explanation why Vettel was getting the new wing for qualies and race they did point out that he did gain more from it the Webber (A point that people seem to want to ignore against the "Vettel was ahead in standing" explanation) perhaps Red Bull wanted to make sure they had their rivals covered.

But as far as blatant team bias, I'll take Red Bulls defense that if this was truly the case, Mark Webber wouldn't have been given the chance to try out the new wing...

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Originally Posted by truefan72

and like many, i am just curious to see what excuse RBR will give at Hockenheim to screw with Webber. The guy may be an arse but the team are clearly that plus the hole

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After Webber's latest little "number 2" fart... um I mean outburst, they shouldn't even come out with an excuse... If the perception thats to the spoilt brat Webber is #2 then they should embrace it. Had Vettel won the first 2 races instead of having mechanical issues he would be far ahead of Webber. The team should claim they believe Vettel is their best chance at catching the McLerans and if Webber don't like it, they have a warm seat at Toro Rosso for him.

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Originally Posted by truefan72

btw there was no dirty laundry to air as it had been already hanging out for all to see.

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My dirty laundry statement wasn't limited to BGP post race. You can believe Red Bull when they say Vettel had more fuel then Webber in Turkey, or you can't but Webber's "conspiracy theory" dig deeper comments is what started this BS. and his "not bad for a number 2" statement today is just continues it. I may doubt some things I hear from Red Bull, But I do Believe them when they say that Vettel was able to save fuel in Turkey, and I do believe them when they say that Vettel gained more from the wing then Webber did, and I also believe them when they claim the weren't favoring Vettel. But if they are gonna be criticized because the perception is that they are favoring Vettel, then maybe they should!

If RBR had brought only 1 new experimental/faster wing to the race, and they gave it to Vettel who was leading in championship points, I would not have any argument with this.

BUT to take the wing off Mark Webber's car when Vettel damaged his own showed favouritism/bias/call it what you want. This is not the way to promote harmony within a team.

To stretch the point a long, long way, suppose Vettels car was damaged beyond repair on the way to the circuit, then by Horner's reasoning, he would have been fully justified in taking Mark Webber's car off him and giving it to Vettel.

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Originally Posted by Hawkmoon

First they blame Webber for his teammate running into him in Turkey (not to mention that they told Webber to turn his engine down and Vettel to turn his up).

Then they give Webber a chasis that they said was so broken that it caused Vettel to be beaten by Webber.

Now they take new parts off Webber's car and give them to Vettel.

To top it all off they maintain that there are no team orders and that everything is just peachy. Red Bull need to go and talk to McLaren about how to be sublte about having a no. 1 driver because right now Red Bull are about as subtle as a turd in a punchbowl.

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I just laughed SO hard! :D

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Originally Posted by anthonyvop

You ever hear of Ferrari, McLaren or Williams. They made F-1 history and won championships by alienating drivers.

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Yeah but they did it at the start of the season and made sure both drivers were well aware and willing. In this case RBR have told everyone, including their drivers, that there is no team preference. And then goes out and prefers Vettel.

THAT is your problem right there.

Why run it at all if the first one fell off ?

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Originally Posted by PSfan

Well, I must say, I think Mark is being a little harsh on himself with his post race comments, nobody actually thinks he's number 2... he's just and arsehole, though I can understand his confusion seeing as the two are somewhat related!!!

And why is everyone so focused on one aspect of the decision to give Vettel the new wing. Seemed to me I read that Vettel ahead in the points was one factor, the fact that Vettel gained more the the new wing was another factor which seems to be ignored... Fact is, I really don't care if its blatant team orders, the wing worked better for Vettel, or even the team still feel they owe him for the first 2 races of the season, Webber going all cry baby post race, and airing the dirty laundry to the press would be why I would give Vettel the better/newer parts over Webber... Unlike arsehole Webber, Vettel has been a team player!!!

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No offence and all... but are you on drugs?

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Originally Posted by Ari

Yeah but they did it at the start of the season and made sure both drivers were well aware and willing. In this case RBR have told everyone, including their drivers, that there is no team preference. And then goes out and prefers Vettel.

THAT is your problem right there.

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Yes, I agree.

Can we have a poll on this issue? Was Red Bull wrong to give the wing to Vettel?

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Originally Posted by PSfan

Funny, you bring up Turkey as proof that there was already favoritism, that Vettel was already driver number one, do you know how dumb that sounds when you consider just 1 race prior, Mark won a red bull 1-2 in Monaco?!? And contrary to Red Bulls claim that Vettel's car was damaged, the manner of in which Webber won the race screams strategy was involved. If Vettel is clear #1, Red Bull would have manufactured a pit stop for Webber in Monaco.

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Actually, that sounds far dumber than the original post. A manufactured pit stop would have dropped Webber down the running order and ruined his race. They would have lost their one-two finish and stuffed everything up. They're talking about favourtism, not attempting to ruin a driver. Red Bull as a team still want maximum points. Red Bull were not in a position in Monaco to swap the drivers even if they wanted to as Webber was too fast. The first opportunity they really had to swap drivers was in Turkey where it certainly seems that the team tried to get Vettel in front of Webber, hence why it's a fair example.