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Originally Posted by DexDexter
Because they don't like being told what to do even if it's for their own good, for example, not wearing seatbelts, it's a choice you make and in some cases make for others (eg, children) and therefore it's up to you to wear the consequences of that decision.
Darwin's theory at work!
It is called freedom and personal responsibility. The work hand in hand. Sometimes it goes bad for certain people. Look at the U.K. for example. What was once a proud and powerful nation is now a shinning example of the dangers of the "Nanny State."Quote:
Originally Posted by Camelopard
It isn't that simple Camel. I think the point Anthony would beat us to death on is personal responsiblity, and while we could joke about Darwin, it is common to all young people in their 20's. They would do without health insurance so they could afford a new car or a nicer apartment, and most of them would get away with it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Camelopard
Where people in the UK and other nations with a national health care system are not grasping is Americans have good healthcare. It is not a third world nation in any stretch, and those who are not "covered" are still able to get treatment, just they have to figure out later how to pay. In Canada or the UK, we pay a much higher level of taxes to have our "universal" care, and that would be likely something some Americans may consider except for the fact that the nanny state healthcare system ina lot of nations in the name of "cutting costs" is talking about cost benefit analysis on who gets WHAT care, and THAT is a decision Americans in the majority do NOT want the government taking. Example? Having them tell you that you cant have a life saving operation because you are too old. Or having the healthcare system deny your application for a new hip because you are 70 and in theory you will be dead in 4 years. There was an element to this kind of analysis in the original bill in the US Senate and it has been removed in light of the uproar.
All the arguements for and against healthcare aside, Obama is burning all his political capital up on this, while not having fixed the economy or putting anyone really back to work. From what I have seen on the news, just about every other western nation is starting to show signs of growth while the elevator is still plunging down in the US. Is this really a time to be trying to spend money like crazy putting public input to 1/6th of the US economy?
Is freedom and personal responsibility acceptable in situations where for example a pandemic spreads into the insured population because the uninsured have not sought treatment?Quote:
Originally Posted by anthonyvop
Do you realise you are posting in public here? You have literally no idea what you are talking about.Quote:
Originally Posted by anthonyvop
I'm not sure anyone in the UK assumes that because the US doesn't have an NHS it must have a 'third world' healthcare system. This is as incorrect a generalisation as the US right is making about state healthcare.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark in Oshawa
Well Ben, they know about the NHS in the UK and my healthcare system up here rationing out certain tests and procedures, and the majority of Americans do not have to wait for this stuff. If you think you may have a cancer lump, you don't want to be told by the "system" that you cant have that biopsy for 3 months because you are low priority on the list or they are short operating theatres. In America, the tests are done within HOURS. In Canada, and I suspect in the NHS, it isn't always that quick. The effort may be there, but the reality is you wait for things up here. My mother waited a year for a knee transplant. A YEAR. THAT is what the Americans want no part of, and you and I both know that the US Governnment taking over most of the healthcare system will result in crap like this.Quote:
Originally Posted by BDunnell
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark in Oshawa
Mark, quit writing crap.
The crap that you are writing as generalisations verge on outright fantasy fabrications,
Hours my ass.
NOTHING down here is done in HOURS.
Even with full insurance --- a well respected plan via my wife's job it was still over 2 months for the first spine operation.
Hours! My gawd where do you get this crap from...?
You seem to be compelled to write even though you know full well your knowledge of the details of things here is EXTREMELY INCIDENTAL.
IS THERE ANYTHING in AMERICA you're NOT an EXPERT IN?
Just shut up for fawks sake rather that just writing writing writing fabrications.
Jan...I would be insulted if it was anyone else but you, but you never seem to accept someone just might have an opinion you don't like. So in short, bite me...Quote:
Originally Posted by janvanvurpa
One of my best friends from my timing and scoring days lives in Scottsville NY and he and I have always talked on and off about the differences in coverage. I do know also many Canadians drive to Buffalo (and PAY CASH)for MRI scans and other routine tests they have to WAIT for in Canada. When people are willing to drive and PAY for a routine "Free" test, doesn't that tell you something?
Since when did you become an expert on the Canadian Healthcare system? I have an OHIP card in my wallet and KNOW the pluses and minuses of my healthcare system.
It is funny, you have no problem spreading your opinion and passing it off as fact but you get offended when you see someone else doing it. My opinions on what is going on in the US may be ancedotal but my opinion on what is going on with our system I can back up. Read any Toronto paper talking about healthcare over a year and the talk of wait times for procedures is often....
I have no real problems with the NHS although I do think that there are far too many layers of middle management that dont achieve anything and need to be removed. My parents (before my dad took early retirment) had both worked over 60 years in the NHS between them.
To be honest I know nothing of the US medical system apart from that you need to get health insurance. What exactly do you get if you have full health insurance and roughly how much does it cost? Is it similar to car insurance where you make a claim your premium goes up and if for example you got cancer one year your health insurance would go up the next?
Only last month the NHS saved my dads life infact so I definately have no complaints about the service it provides but as has been said before...its not perfect.