Bmw-sauber Showcases New F1 Car

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Originally Posted by Daniel

True :)

I personally believe that F1 should be subistuted with the old supertourer rules and we'd have a far better series :)

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Ladies and Gentlefolk.

I give you the 2009 FIA STF1 series.

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/1108643/banger_racing/

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Originally Posted by Knock-on

Ladies and Gentlefolk.

I give you the 2009 FIA STF1 series.

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/1108643/banger_racing/

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better than the 2008 "you touched that other car so 20 lashes and a drive through penalty because we's girly girls here" F1 series :)

Edit: No disrespect to women of course because they can race just as well as men given the right opportunities but you get my point

And to think they threw away the Kube's chances at a WDC (as though he had a chance anyway!!)so they could spend the last half of the season developing their new 09 car. (well that is what some say...)

Much work to have that pop out!!

Wow, to quote the words of Arnold when he looked at the predator, "u one ugly mutterfookar........

Can't wait to see the 2009 cars but if the stop-gap cars are anything to go by then F1 cars will look like modernised 1980s cars. I don't know what to feel about the the change in the rules but it may produce more exciting racing. If you ask me, the real problem has never been in the regulations (with the exception of 2-race engine rule & grooved tyres), it's been in the fact that the racers aren't willing to over-take or fight as they used to.

Can someone help me understand this forum?

For YEARS, we bitched and moaned about aero, saying that it ruins the sport, complaining of every single winglet that was added to the chassis, from BMW's infamous nose to Honda's front spoilers.

We said we wanted slicks, we wanted wider cars, and less aero. No?

And now, that's what they've given us. They've significantly reduced aero, and now you guys want it back?

Seriously.... this forum never ceases to amaze me. I've never been able to understand what these members like, and what they don't like. The only thing that seems apparent to me, is that they hate change, no matter what it is. Even if it is the exact same thing that they've argued for years in favour of, when it happens, it's bad.

I really respect ArrowsF1, but if you read his comments in this thread, it seems like he's saying: "meh... nothing is changing...all this fanfare for nothing", where being one of the most knowledgeable members of this forum, he KNOWS exactly what is changing. Yes, the '09 cars will probably have the same overall speed as the '08 cars, but he, like all other members here, exactly knows why this is happening.

For years, we complained about dirty air, about how overtaking is impossible these days because cars can't get close enough, about how grooved tyres don't provide enough grip off racing line.

Now, it's happening guys. The '09 car is what we've been advocating for the past few years.

And all you can say is: it's boring? It's like a kart? It's like made of Lego? It's like Formula BMW?

Who cares? If it provides better racing, who cares?

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Originally Posted by aryan

Can someone help me understand this forum?

For YEARS, we bitched and moaned about aero, saying that it ruins the sport, complaining of every single winglet that was added to the chassis, from BMW's infamous nose to Honda's front spoilers.

We said we wanted slicks, we wanted wider cars, and less aero. No?

And now, that's what they've given us. They've significantly reduced aero, and now you guys want it back?

Seriously.... this forum never ceases to amaze me. I've never been able to understand what these members like, and what they don't like. The only thing that seems apparent to me, is that they hate change, no matter what it is. Even if it is the exact same thing that they've argued for years in favour of, when it happens, it's bad.

I really respect ArrowsF1, but if you read his comments in this thread, it seems like he's saying: "meh... nothing is changing...all this fanfare for nothing", where being one of the most knowledgeable members of this forum, he KNOWS exactly what is changing. Yes, the '09 cars will probably have the same overall speed as the '08 cars, but he, like all other members here, exactly knows why this is happening.

For years, we complained about dirty air, about how overtaking is impossible these days because cars can't get close enough, about how grooved tyres don't provide enough grip off racing line.

Now, it's happening guys. The '09 car is what we've been advocating for the past few years.

And all you can say is: it's boring? It's like a kart? It's like made of Lego? It's like Formula BMW?

Who cares? If it provides better racing, who cares?

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:up:

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Originally Posted by aryan

Who cares? If it provides better racing, who cares?

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I understand what you're saying aryan :cool: I just have two points:

You say "if it provides better racing" and I think that's a big "if" in the light of some of the comments from drivers and the likes of Tony Purnell that I've seen.

Secondly, I like F1 cars to look good. That may be superficial, and I know I lack a detailed understanding of all the technology, but the Lotus 79 was a damn fine looking racing car, as were the Eagle, Lotus 49 etc. In comparison the 2009 spec cars we've seen look all wrong IMHO. Pig ugly. I care about that.

Basically I think the influence of aero has developed too far, and to a large extent it is impossible to "uninvent" it. The 2009 regs have used aero to try to solve an aero problem and only time will tell if this is the right way to go.

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Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1

I understand what you're saying aryan :cool: I just have two points:

You say "if it provides better racing" and I think that's a big "if" in the light of some of the comments from drivers and the likes of Tony Purnell that I've seen. .

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Have any drivers said that it will make no difference? Not that I'm aware of. Both Kubica & Gene have said that the overall level of grip will be about the same, but with more emphasis on mechanical grip than aero grip. There is a substantial difference to how that makes a car behave, even if the lap times end up about the same.

Kudos should be given to the FIA for recognising the aero-grip problem and attempting something to redress the situation.

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Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1

Secondly, I like F1 cars to look good. That may be superficial, and I know I lack a detailed understanding of all the technology, but the Lotus 79 was a damn fine looking racing car, as were the Eagle, Lotus 49 etc. In comparison the 2009 spec cars we've seen look all wrong IMHO. Pig ugly. I care about that.

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And how many 1970's cars were hideous? Many more than were stunners.

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Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1

Basically I think the influence of aero has developed too far, and to a large extent it is impossible to "uninvent" it. The 2009 regs have used aero to try to solve an aero problem and only time will tell if this is the right way to go.

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Since Aero can't be uninvented....well, without adapting the NASCAR formula of a brick on wheels...how else would you want the powers-that-be to approach the problem?

It would appear, with all due respect, that you are very happy to criticise the FIA for everything they do (and let's face it, you are on record as saying the 2008 spec cars weren't your cup of tea either) but don't actually offer any solution.

Wheeling out Lotus 79's is not a solution.

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Originally Posted by aryan

Can someone help me understand this forum?

For YEARS, we bitched and moaned about aero, saying that it ruins the sport, complaining of every single winglet that was added to the chassis, from BMW's infamous nose to Honda's front spoilers.

We said we wanted slicks, we wanted wider cars, and less aero. No?

And now, that's what they've given us. They've significantly reduced aero, and now you guys want it back?

Seriously.... this forum never ceases to amaze me. I've never been able to understand what these members like, and what they don't like. The only thing that seems apparent to me, is that they hate change, no matter what it is. Even if it is the exact same thing that they've argued for years in favour of, when it happens, it's bad.

I really respect ArrowsF1, but if you read his comments in this thread, it seems like he's saying: "meh... nothing is changing...all this fanfare for nothing", where being one of the most knowledgeable members of this forum, he KNOWS exactly what is changing. Yes, the '09 cars will probably have the same overall speed as the '08 cars, but he, like all other members here, exactly knows why this is happening.

For years, we complained about dirty air, about how overtaking is impossible these days because cars can't get close enough, about how grooved tyres don't provide enough grip off racing line.

Now, it's happening guys. The '09 car is what we've been advocating for the past few years.

And all you can say is: it's boring? It's like a kart? It's like made of Lego? It's like Formula BMW?

Who cares? If it provides better racing, who cares?

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:up: Excellent comment!

It's fairly easy to explain why this situation. I said it last year and I'll say it again now and next year and so on, IMO more than 90% of the forum members have a low knowledge of the technology involved, they catch some phrases during the race from the commentators, and that's all. These people couldn't make the difference between a McLaren and a Torro Rosso (or any other F1 car for that matter) if both were painted in the same neutral color.
The only thing for them is aesthetics and the name of their favorite driver and team, that's what differentiates between good and bad, beautiful and ugly.
It's like when people say: "It looks fast!" :\

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Originally Posted by tamburello

And how many 1970's cars were hideous? Many more than were stunners.

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Excellent point.