Malcolm and losing with no dignity

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Originally Posted by A.F.F.

Can someone tell me what was the rally where Richard Burns got two positions higher on behalf of Petter Solberg and Markko Märtin at Subaru ?

I guess it just happens.. right NOT?

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correct me if I'm wrong here(I'm not) but the 3 cars you mention here were all in the 1 team, this weekend an 'independant' team was forced to help out a bunch of under achievers

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Originally Posted by ChickenMcNugget

I was actually a tad confused as to why Duval didn't drop behind Hirvonen in Germany. Did I miss the reason?

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It was because the Structo Ford run in Germany was privately owned and run by R-Tec - not M-Sport. But the Stobart team asked Duval and the Structo boss if he would run for manu 2 points since he's an experct in Germany. But Malcom couldn't ask Duval to drop down behind Hirvonen, because it wasn't his car and it wasn't his driver.

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Originally Posted by cut the b.s.

correct me if I'm wrong here(I'm not) but the 3 cars you mention here were all in the 1 team, this weekend an 'independant' team was forced to help out a bunch of under achievers

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Same ****, different package. Stobard is as independed as I am in my marriage, hence it does exactly what Wilson tell them to do.

However the point was towards my fellow member N.O.T. here who's personal crusade to certain drivers is so ridicilously black & white he can't see the difference anywhere. Mikko certainly accepted the gift from Wilson and now ( again ) whole of WRC seem like a farce. But like I said, other drivers in the past has accepted it too. Obviously it's a whole different thing when it's done by N.O.T's favourite driver :D

read my post please (No44)

Isn't Malcolm the team principal of both teams anyway? They are an M2 team, so total independence is not neccessarily the idea.

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Originally Posted by ChickenMcNugget

Isn't Malcolm the team principal of both teams anyway? They are an M2 team, so total independence is not neccessarily the idea.

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Yes he is - but like Daniel and others have expressed, then Ford cannot have it two ways. Either Stobart is an independant team able to score Manu points - or they are a part of Ford as a whole and can only score drivers points. Ford cannot have it two ways and that's what most of us are critical about.

That's also why previous team-orders with Subaru, Mitsu or Citroën cannot be compared, because that has never involved other teams.

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Originally Posted by ChickenMcNugget

Isn't Malcolm the team principal of both teams anyway? They are an M2 team, so total independence is not neccessarily the idea.

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Which I'm not sure about. Should teams be independent? While having more WRCars entering is good, having them all from the same Manufacturer/Team does allow these situations to arise. All it's done is open a can of worms.

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Originally Posted by Karukera

No but feel free to express clearly and pubicly your opinion instead of the whispering. :)

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You must be joking? So according to you Loeb & Citroen has not been playing with tactics this year at all...

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Originally Posted by MikeD

Yes he is - but like Daniel and others have expressed, then Ford cannot have it two ways. Either Stobart is an independant team able to score Manu points - or they are a part of Ford as a whole and can only score drivers points. Ford cannot have it two ways and that's what most of us are critical about.

That's also why previous team-orders with Subaru, Mitsu or Citroën cannot be compared, because that has never involved other teams.

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Spot on, those of us who watch a bit of F1 still will have seen a Ferrari engined Toro Rosso battle for points with Ferraris championship challenger, how refereshing this battle for a point was compared to what Msport/Ford did yesterday

We are talking about using cars from other teams. Not road order tactics. Unless you count Conrad crashing into Sebastien tactics :p