Mobile phones & tablets thread

Daniel and Dave have both previosly mentioned that Apple deny there are any problems with there products. Just from seeing what Steve Jobs said about the iphone 4 I can see where they are coming from. He did say that there was nothing wrong with it when quite obvioulsy on some occassions there were problems. After mounting media pressure they did back down and offer a solution to the problem to people who had previously purchased the phone.

Anyway on a similar subject one of my friends bought a Mac book it suffered split and broken casing a couple of times. This is a known fault and could quite possibly be similar to the experiece suffere by BDunnell. The problem was always fixed under its warranty. The three year warrantly eventually ran out and the fault happened again. I'm not entirely sure how or why my friend came to find the particular website but what he did find was a website telling you step by step how to compain about your faulty Mac book and get yourself a brand new Mac book Pro. Basically reading from the script he'd found my mate called up Apple customer services. and was eventually offered a new Mac book just as the website had suggested. He then gave them some speil about new Mac books not having some of the features that he was used on his old Mac book and him wanting to speak to a higher authority to which he got passed onto a manager who eventually agreed to replace his Mac book which was more than three years old for a nice shiney new Mac book Pro. The only condition was that he sent Apple back his old Mac book with the broken casing otherwise they would deduct money from his account to the value of the Mac book Pro that they were sending him after he'd given them his banking details. Needless to say my mate Mr Ingham Fedexed his old Mac book the next day and is now the happy owner of a nice shiney new Mac book Pro.

Personally I have never had any dealings with Apple customer service but from from the experience of my mate I can't quite tell whether Apple are stupid or just have good customer service when it comes to problems with their products. :s Then again, maybe he just got lucky. On a side note my mate did that last December. I'm not sure if Apple have cottoned on yet but it maybe worth a try. ;)

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Originally Posted by Dave B

Their marketing is superb, such as the way they've engineered queues "round the block" for the new iPad, largely by restricting where you can buy one. You couldn't buy online at launch, and no third party retailers had them. Want an iPad2? Queue up at an Apple store. Looks good in the papers, doesn't it, but it's hardly a way to do business in the 21st century.

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Dave, you've made a very good and (IMO) pretty well balanced post. So it's not my intention to nitpick it. But I do have to point out that the above is not entirely true. The iPad 2 was available at Best Buy, Target and Walmart, as well as Apple stores. I can't speak to the situation at AT&T or Verizon stores. And I don't believe certain online retailers (Amazon, for instance) got any of the initial batch, but I'm really not sure about that. Even with Apple's industry standard supply chain management and mass production processes, it was only possible to make so many in a short time frame. So it's not that distribution was limited in order to create long lines, but rather that supply was limited because of manufacturing constraints. The last analysts' estimate that I read pegged the launch sales at between 400K and 600K units. Shipping delays are currently in the 4-6 week range from what I understand. So it's not as if Apple is sitting on supply. Even before the concerns about Japanese chip supplies surfaced, Apple was selling the iPad 2's as fast as they could make and ship them.

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Where I do have a problem with Apple is this idea, perpetuated by some of their biggest fans and encouraged by their marketing people, is that they can do no wrong. They have released botched hardware and software more than once, and while they are by no means the only offender they always seem to go on the defensive and either deny the problem or blame the user (First gen Apple TV's failures, "you're holding it wrong" etc).

That's the reason I brought up the alarm clock problem when it resurfaced. It simply should not happen on a ~ piece of kit. No excuse.

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I think there is a perception among some that Apple or its fans claim that it can do no wrong. But it doesn't matter if we're talking about an $800 computer or a $250K car, any manufacturing process yields defects. Even at the Six Sigma level, there will be approximately 3.4 defects per million opportunities. The alarm clock thing with Apple, Microsoft bricking certain WP7 phones with their recent update or certain Android tablets made by Samsung freezing up, are not manufacturing related (as far as I know) - those are system defects. That doesn't make it any more acceptable to the average consumer. But it does or should make the issue easier to find and correct. Your point is taken. But anyone who thinks that simply having an Apple logo on a computer or a prancing horse on a car makes it defect free is... well... an idiot.

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My other problem with Apple is the way they lock down the ecosystem. Now there's perhaps nothing wrong with that on some hardware - I never hear people complaining that they don't have freedom to root their PS3 or the inbuilt satnav in their BMW.

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I understand where you're coming from. Apple does have the "walled garden" approach and pretty much always has. You can "jail break" an iOS device... but it voids the warranty. I wanted more horsepower from my WRX. So in a sense, I did a jail break on it. I got about a 30% gain in horsepower. But in doing so, I voided the warranty on the engine. The supposed freedom that people often think they have with other products simply does not exist, especially when the warranty comes into play. I'm not so much defending Apple's approach. But for all the complaints I hear based on the "walled garden", iOS devices have incredibly high retention rates after initial adoption. I look at Apple more as a stock than as a company I want to buy things from. So I pay close attention to not just the adoption rates of things like the iPad, iPhone, iPod and Macs... I also look at the retention rates. And in the case of the iPhone, the retention rates are about the highest in the industry (in North America). So if people really had a problem with iTunes, I don't believe they'd choose another iDevice after their contract was up or buy another iPod after the first one wore out. But iPhone customers tend to keep coming back, at rates higher than the industry average.

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Don't get me wrong, I like the fact that Apple exist. They drive others to compete, and plurality of competition is a good thing. I just simply cannot fathom the blinkered love (or indeed hatred) that some people seem to show for them.

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One of Apple's greatest strengths is its marketing. It's also the basis for the hatred, envy and legitimate criticism too. But as you say, competition is a very good thing. It's why I love racing, specifically Formula One. When there was engine and chassis competition in CART, it was a strong series. Now, with the IRL, it's a spec series and it's at best a step above GP2, if that. Varied competition and the pursuit of a better mousetrap makes the breed stronger. But Apple developed a cult like following in the early/mid 80's. And even during its darkest days, near bankruptcy, that cult maintained. Now, we still have the Apple/Mac cult, but we also have consumers who are brand conscious. And the Apple brand is now ranked alongside the top premium brands in other sectors. In the report I read from 2010, as a brand, Apple was ranked above Rolex, Gucci, Prada and Ferrari - and that surprised me. So yes, some people are buying Apple devices just because they are Apple devices. While others are looking at Macs because they bought an iPhone/iPod for their kid: the halo effect. And in the case of Macs, there are people like me who have grown VERY tired of the Windows experience, and are now ready to try something else... while still having Windows as an option.

But at the end of the day, people need to KNOW what they want and why they want it... and then make an appropriate purchase decision. There was a time when Sony was the electronic brand to have and Dell was the computer brand to have. But the days of the Walkman being king and "Dude, I'm gettin' a Dell!" are over now. So the fad aspect of Apple's popularity could also come to an end.

I have had an Android powered 'smart' phone for about 9 months now and am beyond fed up with it, so yesterday I ordered a replacement non-smart phone from ebay which can't come soon enough! I'll probably keep it for the odd use of t'interweb but for everything else I will be glad to get rid of it. I wouldn't even think of getting an iPhone or any other touchscreen.

Aye, but yours had hardware problems didn't it?

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Originally Posted by Jag_Warrior

I think there is a perception among some that Apple or its fans claim that it can do no wrong. But it doesn't matter if we're talking about an $800 computer or a $250K car, any manufacturing process yields defects. Even at the Six Sigma level, there will be approximately 3.4 defects per million opportunities. The alarm clock thing with Apple, Microsoft bricking certain WP7 phones with their recent update or certain Android tablets made by Samsung freezing up, are not manufacturing related (as far as I know) - those are system defects. That doesn't make it any more acceptable to the average consumer. But it does or should make the issue easier to find and correct. Your point is taken. But anyone who thinks that simply having an Apple logo on a computer or a prancing horse on a car makes it defect free is... well... an idiot.

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To be fair the issue with the Samsung WP7 devices wasn't microsoft's fault, it was Samsung's fault. some of the phones had a different firmware and this caused the issue. My phone which is a Samsung, updated just fine.

I think though that your alarm clock not working in the 21st century is simply not acceptable.

I agree with Daves post, Apple do make some good stuff, but for a lot of reasons a lot of people will never buy it.

My iPhone is so ancient that Apple no longer support it and the alarm clock works just fine. It always has done. I'm not what sure what the moral of my story is. :p ;)

That your phone is ancient? :p

True, but my alarm clock works. This is a highly important phone feature after all. :p

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Originally Posted by Mark

Aye, but yours had hardware problems didn't it?

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No I think it was software issues but still think that it's poorly designed. It'll learn me to sign up to a 2-year contract on the spur of the moment!! :(

At least it has an app that not only rings an alarm but I have to solve a maths puzzle before it switches off :s I don't do mornings at all so 63-17+22 is impossible at 5.30am :bigcry:

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Originally Posted by Daniel

To be fair the issue with the Samsung WP7 devices wasn't microsoft's fault, it was Samsung's fault. some of the phones had a different firmware and this caused the issue. My phone which is a Samsung, updated just fine.

I think though that your alarm clock not working in the 21st century is simply not acceptable.

I agree with Daves post, Apple do make some good stuff, but for a lot of reasons a lot of people will never buy it.

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No matter who was at fault, if I had a phone that functioned one day and the day after Microsoft sent out an update it became a large paperweight, that would the last phone of that type that I would buy. Microsoft is already having issues capturing market share with the WP7 platform, so I doubt that helped.

But as I said, that is what the free market is all about: people have a wide variety of choices in the mobile phone market these days. There are people who don't/won't buy Apple products, just as there are people who don't/won't buy Microsoft products. I'm glad that we have the choices that we do. But alarm clocks and antennas aside, the objective data on the iPhone's customer retention rate speaks for itself. I'll be anxious to see what the customer retention rate is for the various WP7 phones when that data comes out.