Mobile phones & tablets thread

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Originally Posted by BleAivano

Simply because many apple fans considers features that does not exist on an apple product as unnecessary.
They simple "don't need it" that is of course until that particular feature becomes available on an apple product,
coz' that is when that feature suddenly will become "revolutionary", despite that i.e. android might have had it
since its first version.

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You really need to take stock and have a look at how your hatred for Apple blinkers you to the extent that noone can mention their products in a positive or even neutral light without being labelled as a fan. Remember that you have suggested the entire 150 year old patenting system is invalid purely because of some favourable judgements for Apple. Introducing a little objectivity would be useful for you.

Regarding the surface tablet I do think there's a niche for it particularly for those who do not already have a laptop. However for MS it fulfils a bigger marketing role which is to highlight the seamless nature of their OS which covers everything from phones through to PCs (yes I do know that the systems are not the same but to the consumer it feels that way).

I'm just disappointed with the relative lack of promotion from MS. I don't feel comfortable with the smartphone market being reduced to a duopoly and I want MS to take significant market share from Apple and Google to reintroduce healthy competition into this sector. This is going to take more than a brand new OS and a single glitzy debut show. I want to see saturation advertising especially in the buildup to Xmas, something MS can well afford and it isn't happening. Thats surprising given how key Windows 8 is to the future of MS as desk/laptop computer sales are declining taking away their cashcow.

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Originally Posted by Mark

In other news Ibby's Dad bought an iPad 3 on Saturday, 4 days before the iPad 4 was announced. I did larf.

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It's his own fault, he asked everyone for money for Christmas two weeks ago so he could buy one. Then obviously, he decides Christmas it too far away and requires an iPad immediately somewhat out of the blue. Now no one has any idea what to get him for Christmas again and his iPad is out of date. He should just get over it and stop impulse buying. :p

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Originally Posted by Malbec

I'm just disappointed with the relative lack of promotion from MS. I don't feel comfortable with the smartphone market being reduced to a duopoly and I want MS to take significant market share from Apple and Google to reintroduce healthy competition into this sector. This is going to take more than a brand new OS and a single glitzy debut show. I want to see saturation advertising especially in the buildup to Xmas, something MS can well afford and it isn't happening. Thats surprising given how key Windows 8 is to the future of MS as desk/laptop computer sales are declining taking away their cashcow.

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Couldn't agree more. That said, the Surface is sold out everywhere, but who knows what that means, they could have sold 10 or 10 million..... we just don't know. I wish Microsoft would do proper launches, if WP and W8 had launched on the same day and Microsoft had both the surface and surface RT on sale then you could see it going somewhere, but they just don't seem to try....

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Originally Posted by Mark

In other news Ibby's Dad bought an iPad 3 on Saturday, 4 days before the iPad 4 was announced. I did larf.

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Please tell me he ordered online so is covered by Distance Selling Regulations!

Nope; bought from Argos in person (I believe?). Now I believe that he'd bought from the Apple store in person, they would replace it free of charge, or as you say online you could just send it back.

There's no great difference between the New iPad (its official title) and the refreshed version of the New iPad so I wouldn't be too bothered about it myself if I made the mistake of buying any iPad :p

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Originally Posted by Mark

Nope; bought from Argos in person (I believe?). Now I believe that he'd bought from the Apple store in person, they would replace it free of charge, or as you say online you could just send it back.

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Ouch. Ah well, it's not like the "3" is suddenly crap, it's just annoying that it's already superseded so soon after launch. That's the downside of Apple's secrecy, with most other manufacturers the new product line is flagged up well before launch.

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Originally Posted by Daniel

There's no great difference between the New iPad (its official title) and the refreshed version of the New iPad so I wouldn't be too bothered about it myself if I made the mistake of buying any iPad :p

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What are they calling the old new iPad now? And what about the new new iPad? I wonder when the new new new new iPad will be out...

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Originally Posted by Dave B

What are they calling the old new iPad now? And what about the new new iPad? I wonder when the new new new new iPad will be out...

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I haven't the foggiest!

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Originally Posted by henners88

Impulse buying does sometimes have a nasty habit of biting you within days :p

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Not if I buy from Costco - I can return it anytime and get a refund here in Australia.

iPad
iPad 2
iPad 3rd Generation
iPad 4th Generation

I believe you can't buy the old new iPad anymore, only the new New iPad, but I think you can still get the iPad 2 as a sub model. I had to go into the apple store to get the wife's 4s sorted. I felt dirty, a few years ago it would have been cool, now it seems mainstream. To their credit they checked the phone, agreed that iOS6 had messed the phone up and replaced it no questions. A massive recognition that they have a big problem with iOS6 if they are replacing phones with no qualms, but at least they have sorted it

Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2

Have to say I don't like Apple shops either. They try too hard.

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Originally Posted by henners88

That's something about Apple I like in the respect they will replace devices with very few questions. HTC would say that they had to repair the device 3 times before a replacement would be considered. I had to really kick up a fuss and it took me 2 weeks of emails to get my HTC Tattoo replaced back in 2009.

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You were quite lucky there. I had a Nokia 6670 in 2004 sent to their repair centers all around the country and back about 5 times over two months, with ultimately no replacement, which I finally sold to an unsuspecting poor soul in the second hand market, and bought a Motorola. Never bought a Nokia again since then.

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Originally Posted by henners88

That's something about Apple I like in the respect they will replace devices with very few questions. HTC would say that they had to repair the device 3 times before a replacement would be considered. I had to really kick up a fuss and it took me 2 weeks of emails to get my HTC Tattoo replaced back in 2009.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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The only reason Apple can do that though, is because they've charged you enough to cover the cost of replacing units rather than repairing them. You pays your money and makes your choice :) I've not had any problems with my phones since 2007 when I needed to replace the screen and flexi cable on my N95 which I did myself. Since then I've had a Nokia E71, Samsung Omnia 7, Lumia 800 and now a HTC HD7 and none have ever had any hardware issues :)

You're a lucky man Daniel ;)

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Originally Posted by pino

You're a lucky man Daniel ;)

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Nah, I just make careful choices :) The only lemon of a phone I've ever owned was a Nokia 3230. That was truly a terrible phone.

Yes Apple cover the cost of service in the price but you know when you purchase this is the case. As others have said they've been put off Nokia and HTC due to poor customer service. Whereas Apple know that if they treat you well you'll keep buying Apple products.

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Originally Posted by henners88

Yeah I appreciate that. You get what you pay for with any product or service. You will pay more in a restaurant if the service is good generally, unless of course you take your family to McDonalds every week lol. But if you purchase something for more and know should something go wrong you'll get good service, it's worth it for some people. My last HTC was bomb proof btw and has been the most reliable handset I've owned. Previous customer service experience with them was shocking however. Plus I only paid 80 quid more towards my iPhone than I did for my HTC so it's a juggle to find that happy balance :)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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Well,unfortunately, Costco doesn't market phones. But when my Strong DTV recorder bought from Costco started to play up badly after two years, they told me to return it and gave me a refund. I think this is a good policy, because they sell heaps of merchandise with such goodwill.

Yeah I had a few Nokia's break. Which meant 2 weeks without a phone while they sent it off. Including once where I sent it to O2 who then lost it and denied all knowledge. That was costly for me and why I've never used O2 since.

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Originally Posted by Daniel

The only reason Apple can do that though, is because they've charged you enough to cover the cost of replacing units rather than repairing them.

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I doubt very much that they've charged enough on the initial product that they can afford to replace rather than repair.

When I go to Apple shops its clear they acted on the initial market research they did just after they launched the iPod. That showed that people liked the iPod and were willing to buy it but weren't keen on the rest of the Apple range and weren't interested in buying iMacs etc because they weren't familiar with the OS. Apple stores are almost singlemindedly designed to address this single issue. There are always loads of Apple computers on display free to play with and there's internet access. Noone hassles you to move on from the machines if you decide to surf for a while on them. It gives customers time to familiarise themselves with the OS without thinking about it, the incentive is free internet access.

The good service is part of the expansionist grand plan. If your competitors, most of whom don't have direct outlets themselves on the high street, build up a reputation for being difficult when machines go wrong then if you simply replace or repair quickly under warranty then your reputation improves rapidly via word of mouth.

As for Apple assistants trying too hard I thought so too until I met one who happened to be American. Then it all clicked into place, they've just introduced American ideas of service into a European shop. Thats why they feel strange. I don't think thats a bad thing personally, I prefer American customer service to British any day.

I seem to recall in the dim and distant past Apple were not good at customer service when the first iPods came out if people had problems e.g. with the battery they would use excuses such as a scratch on the case to get out of repairing it.

It seems they did learn from that experience.

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Originally Posted by Malbec

I doubt very much that they've charged enough on the initial product that they can afford to replace rather than repair.

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They just repair the faulty unit and resell it as a refurb online for what is still a fairly expensive price. This is how they cover the cost of giving people new phones :)

By the data that I've read from places like Consumer Reports and All Things Digital, one thing that is consistent across all Apple product lines is their tendency to garner very high customer satisfaction and customer retention levels. Initial quality, versus industry standards, tends to be in the higher percentiles - so that means they typically don't malfunction early on as often as certain other brands. But when they are faulty, Apple seems to have a greater tendency to address the problem to the satisfaction and expectation of the consumer. You have to first give people a well made product, whether it's a computer or a car. But when there is a problem, if you address it to their reasonable expectations, you'll probably retain that customer for quite some time to come. And if word spreads, you'll probably pick up more new customers just based on word of mouth, if not independent data studies.

More usually the repaired units are the very ones which are given to users as replacements. This isn't specific to Apple, it's standard industry practice.

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Originally Posted by Daniel

The only reason Apple can do that though, is because they've charged you enough to cover the cost of replacing units rather than repairing them.

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Normally when you send a phone off for repair, you end up with a full refurb (ie new case, new battery, new screen overlay, new keyboard where applicable). It costs peanuts as the circuit board, processor and memory are the expensive parts; and consumers can't tell the difference. Indeed I've seen refurbs which were built to a better standard than handsets off the factory production line! Most manufacturers and their agents make you wait a few weeks for this process. Apple cut out the delay and gain a great reputation, which makes sense, but it's still a refurb in the majority of cases.

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Originally Posted by Jag_Warrior

By the data that I've read from places like Consumer Reports and All Things Digital, one thing that is consistent across all Apple product lines is their tendency to garner very high customer satisfaction and customer retention levels. Initial quality, versus industry standards, tends to be in the higher percentiles - so that means they typically don't malfunction early on as often as certain other brands. But when they are faulty, Apple seems to have a greater tendency to address the problem to the satisfaction and expectation of the consumer. You have to first give people a well made product, whether it's a computer or a car. But when there is a problem, if you address it to their reasonable expectations, you'll probably retain that customer for quite some time to come. And if word spreads, you'll probably pick up more new customers just based on word of mouth, if not independent data studies.

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But it could also bee that someone who bought a very expensive phone are less reluctant to admit that they don't like their purchase.

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Originally Posted by Jag_Warrior

By the data that I've read from places like Consumer Reports and All Things Digital, one thing that is consistent across all Apple product lines is their tendency to garner very high customer satisfaction and customer retention levels. Initial quality, versus industry standards, tends to be in the higher percentiles - so that means they typically don't malfunction early on as often as certain other brands. But when they are faulty, Apple seems to have a greater tendency to address the problem to the satisfaction and expectation of the consumer. You have to first give people a well made product, whether it's a computer or a car. But when there is a problem, if you address it to their reasonable expectations, you'll probably retain that customer for quite some time to come. And if word spreads, you'll probably pick up more new customers just based on word of mouth, if not independent data studies.

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Completely agree. Its a tried and tested formula for succeeding in breaking into a new market. Its reflects exactly how Japanese and later Korean car makers broke into Western markets. Offer a decent product and clobber the opposition on aftermarket service.

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Originally Posted by Dave B

Normally when you send a phone off for repair, you end up with a full refurb (ie new case, new battery, new screen overlay, new keyboard where applicable). It costs peanuts as the circuit board, processor and memory are the expensive parts; and consumers can't tell the difference. Indeed I've seen refurbs which were built to a better standard than handsets off the factory production line! Most manufacturers and their agents make you wait a few weeks for this process. Apple cut out the delay and gain a great reputation, which makes sense, but it's still a refurb in the majority of cases.

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It's been a while since I've sent a phone off for repair to be fair.

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Originally Posted by BleAivano

But it could also bee that someone who bought a very expensive phone are less reluctant to admit that they don't like their purchase.

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Yes, it could be. But that explanation doesn't seem very plausible. If true, then why didn't 1980-90's Jaguars have industry leading customer satisfaction and initial quality scores??? At $60K-$70K per pop, it seems that a purchase of that magnitude would generate higher (false) scores than a $700 phone. In fact, Jaguars of that era had very low customer satisfaction and initial quality scores. Jaguar also struggled with customer retention... which led to rather horrendous depreciation after a couple of years. So, how would that explanation account for Apple's industry leading customer retention ratings? If someone didn't like their initial purchase within the first 30 days (when the device could be returned, I believe), why would they keep it... and especially, why would they then buy another one a couple of years or months later???

The data points to Apple having higher than industry average customer satisfaction and customer retention scores and higher second hand market values on most of its products. Explanations for why that is are probably wide ranging. But I doubt that it has anything to do with people feeling any sense of shame or wanting to hide their true feelings. I know of no objective data which has found such a thing to be true.

Windows 8 system at a consumer booth gets the dreaded blue screen. :p

http://d24w6bsrhbeh9d.cloudfront.net...01017_700b.jpg

I'm a Windows fan and all, but we gotta learn to laugh at ourselves. :D

The Mapple Void

[youtube]7gf-ICdzU18[/youtube]

The blue screen has nicer fonts now.

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Originally Posted by CaptainRaiden

Windows 8 system at a consumer booth gets the dreaded blue screen. :p

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Don't be too worried, Daniel is offering a full money back guarantee if you're not 100% satisfied ;)

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Originally Posted by Malbec

Don't be too worried, Daniel is offering a full money back guarantee if you're not 100% satisfied ;)

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Hardly surprising though. Most BSOD's are down to dodgy hardware anyway. As Windows 8 is only new this unit has probably only been running for a few hours and the first few days and weeks are when most hardware fails anyway ;)

AnandTech - LG and Google Announce the Nexus 4, Starts at $299

Google Nexus 4 by LG

Whoa! Now that's a proper steal for those ridonkulous specs. Still can't believe the price!

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LG and Google Announce the Nexus 4, Starts at $299

This isn't how they wanted to do it, but LG and Google are going ahead with the announcement of the Nexus 4, and it's a steal. The lineage of the device is clear, with specs aping those of the LG Optimus G, but blessed with the latest update to Jelly Bean: Android 4.2. The Qualcomm Snapdragon S4 Pro features four Krait cores clocked at 1.5GHz , the Adreno 320 GPU, and paired the requisite 2GB of RAM. The same 4.7" TrueHD IPS Plus display has a 1280x768 resolution, and the design is updated with a new back surface. Available in 8GB and 16GB configurations, the new Nexus will start at just $299, and top out at $349 unlocked and off-contract, through the Google Play Store on November 13th.

When Google's Galaxy Nexus was sold unlocked for $349 it was a stupendous bargain, despite somewhat dated hardware. With today's announcement, though, we have top of the line hardware being sold at prices that bend the price curve drastically against buying on-contract devices. We'll see how that all plays out over the coming months.

Update: And there it is! In addition to the Nexus 4, we'll also be seeing the Nexus stable expand with two new SKUs for the Nexus 7 and a brand new stablemate, the Nexus 10 from Samsung.

The first update to the Nexus 7 comes in a 32GB variant that takes the place of the original 16GB SKU at $249. The 16GB model now slots in at the $199 and both are joined by a new "mobile data" variant of the 32GB SKU that will be available unlocked for $299. The unlocked nature of the device indicates it may be 3G only, we'll dig in more in a second.

The Nexus 10 was first rumored just a few weeks ago, and peaks our interest in a big way. Built in partnership with Samsung, the 10" tablet is powered by Samsung's Exynos 5 Dual (nee 5250) SoC, making it the first Android device powered by ARM Cortex-A15 cores. In this case, two Cortex-A15 cores, clocked as high as 1.7GHz, are mated to the Mali-T604 GPU and 2GB of RAM. On the front of the device you find a 2560x1600 10" display, making it the highest resolution Android tablet to date. The display is made possible by the Exynos memory subsystem that puts two-port DDR3-800 on the table for 12.8GB/s of bandwidth. The Nexus 10 will be priced at $399 (16GB) and $499 (32GB) and be available along with the rest of the line-up on November 13th on the Google Play Store. Interested shoppers can sign up for more information today through the store.

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http://images.anandtech.com/doci/641...6_web_flat.png

http://cdn0.mos.techradar.futurecdn....s_4-900-75.jpg

The only thing that bothers me though is the lack of expandable memory. That still makes me think I made the right choice with the Galaxy S3. But hey, $350 for the 16 GB model?? I wouldn't really miss the microSD slot! ;)

and Microsoft launches WP8 today :)

A few interesting features such as a guest account which I think is quite nifty really. On a slightly related topic, I went to dinner last night and one of the girls left her iphone 5 at the table so we were messaging her boyfriend :D That said, if she had a brain she'd have a code to unlock her phone :p

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Originally Posted by Daniel

and Microsoft launches WP8 today :)

A few interesting features such as a guest account which I think is quite nifty really. On a slightly related topic, I went to dinner last night and one of the girls left her iphone 5 at the table so we were messaging her boyfriend :D That said, if she had a brain she'd have a code to unlock her phone :p

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I was keeping an eye on the WP8 launch here - AnandTech - Microsoft's Windows Phone 8 Event - Liveblog

Some impressive hardware specs on some of the WP8 devices, even though it's the lightest on resources out of all three OS'. Good to see they're looking ahead.

And the Google Nexus 10 tablet made by Samsung. Again, impressive specs:

Google Nexus 10 unveiled with highest-res tablet display | News | TechRadar

Will have world's highest resolution display, more than the new new iPad, better hardware, NFC, and better value for money.

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Originally Posted by CaptainRaiden

I was keeping an eye on the WP8 launch here - AnandTech - Microsoft's Windows Phone 8 Event - Liveblog

Some impressive hardware specs on some of the WP8 devices, even though it's the lightest on resources out of all three OS'. Good to see they're looking ahead.

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Didn't get the chance to follow the liveblog sadly.

This is the photo I've wanted to see for ages :)
http://images.anandtech.com/doci/6417/WP8-700_575px.jpg

This is where it all starts to make sense. I think this is when WP8 starts to take off, IF Windows 8 does well :)