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According to Autosport, it appears Massa ignored a Team Order.
I don't care that he won't be driving for us next year, I don't care that he has followed orders before.
I hope Luca lays into him, then sacks him on the eve of Brazil.
Hopefully, those who were quick to criticize Alonso for his outbursts and public criticisms will be hyper-critical of a driver in the team who does not show respect to his employers.
Sebastian gets booed for doing it!
Rogro is the bomb; if he had had equal machinery as Kimi earlier in the season the race would have been much closer, (although Kimi did quite consistently well). I'd take Hulk or Rogro over Kimi, but kimi will at least score some good points.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bagwan
Hey Mia, Fred passed Felipe again in a fair fight, your boy aint producing the results you said he would after he announced his retirement. Sorry you are so wrong about that. Fred passed him on lap 20. At least Felipe baby impaired his teammate until he ran out of talent :laugh: Shambolic of that mousey little greaseball :laugh:
With the exception of photos that clearly show Kimi alongside, I can agree. After all, they penalized him heavily for causing the contact didn't they? Kimi was two wheels on the grass when he quit moving over... Fred still hit him and took himself out of the race.Quote:
Originally Posted by Parabolica
As for who owes Ferrari a title... let's check the score
Kimi -1
Fernando - 0
I think you need to go to SpecSavers.
Kimi was never alongside. Go watch the onboard camera from Fernando.
But hurry, because School starts soon, and you must nit.miss today's lesson in basic physics.
I think it is you, who needs an appointment with specsavers, old man. Fernando and Kimi were side-by-side. It was a racing incident as it can happen after the start.Quote:
Originally Posted by Parabolica
And while you're at it, you might want to add an appointment with a logopedist as well. Both you and Mr. Alca-whatsisname both have shown worrying language assembly deficits lately and have developed a habit of insulting people that dare to criticize a certain love interest of yours. I wonder why you even bothered to sign up here, when most of your posts are just full of negativity and insulting remarks about people, who don't agree with you?
If you can't understand the post move your pussy ass on to the next composition, Samuel Taylor!Quote:
Originally Posted by dj_bytedisaster
Alca, my fellow Tifoso, do not react to those who live in glass houses.
From my first post, he has been aggressive, presumably because he himself does not like opposition.
Hence why the Ignore function is in employment.
If he wishes to reply to my posts, he is free to do so. It's his time he is wasting.
Calm down a bit, itīs not time to look in the mirrors now, lets look forward.
Ahh, well, apparently Fernando already do that.
Mousa has got to go . NOW .
What is it that keeps him in that seat ?
He hasn't useful for a loooong time .
And , they are saying they will say nothing about it .
What the hell ?
The championship is all but over , and this idiot doesn't grab the only stitch of dignity he can muster , as a fine , dutiful number two for the Scuderia , letting his team-mate by , but rather , decides to keep him behind , tearing up his tires , eliminating any hope at all for Alonso .
Taking away his keys on the eve of Brazil would be fitting for the little traitor , but I'm not so sure that Brazil would understand fully .
He's got a powerful pout .
But then , certainly the reds cannot have been seen as anything but the most loyal towards the little Mousa .
Perhaps we should ask who we would have in to replace him .
And only saw Kimi in his rear view mirrors san.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mia 01
To me it was always a mystery why people described Massa as mister nice guy... his behavior in Japan fits too well with what I think of him.
What did he do wrong? He was abused to make Alonso shine for years, now that they said that he's outlived his usefulness, he tries to drive for his future. What's wrong with that? Shall he beg for the Scuderria to bend him over the nearest piece of furniture to give him yet another jolly good anal seeing-to? Especially now where Fernando hasn't got more than a minute theoretical chance in the title fight anyways? He always did what they asked him to. Now he thinks of his own future. I see nothing wrong with that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Ben
Indeed, let's look forward.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mia 01
Hopefully, Kimi will, for a change.
he could have done the job he was supposed to do, help the team. in the end the only thing he proved was that he was no match for FA anyway and being a no. 2 at Ferrari is all he could be. instead he sort of thrown the toys out of the pram and for what? The team has been more than patient with him.. and it turns out still is. He should have been a goner a long time ago.
Help the team doing what? Fernando would need to win all remaining races and the top 3 were already half a week up the road and Ferrari doesn't look good enough for a podium right now. Why should he roll over in what might be the last races of his career for no apparent reason or benefit? At the time they were running 4th and 5th and for the WCC it doesn't make the faintest difference, who finishes ahead. And for the driver title Alonso can just as well do the French thing and surrender. There was no gain from rolling over other than stroking Alonso's ego.Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Ben
get all the points they can get.Quote:
Originally Posted by dj_bytedisaster
i think in the end that's just what he didQuote:
Originally Posted by dj_bytedisaster
[quote=Big Ben]get all the points they can get.[/quote:1ts9ofu2]Quote:
Originally Posted by "dj_bytedisaster":1ts9ofu2
And how does it help to let Alonso pass for 4th when the other 3 before him are out of reach anyways? There was no car infront of Massa that Alonso could've challengend. I would have agreed if this had been a 8/9 situation with Alonso more likely to make up a few more positions, but 4th was the best they could've hoped for in any case. No real reason to wave Alonso past.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Parabolica
He will, he will! I think his mind already is on next year. Air tickets are very expensive.
About Massa. Four nearly four years now he has been Fernandos slouch, he even had to break the sealing on his gearbox for him!! The whole Ferrari team know this and are ashamed. Therefore no punishment!!
Let him drive at his own will for a few races for gods sake.
I can understand both points with Felipe.
He has been treated as a #2 every since Alonso joined the team, and subject to team orders on a number of occasions. But he has allowed that to happen and accepted it. He's now angry he doesn't have a ride with Ferrari next year and wants to prove a point. He could have allowed Alonso to pass early on, then raced his own race after that. Then potential teams would have saw him as both a team player and the driver he is.
I wish Felipe would have taken the high road myself and just allowed Fernando to pass. I can understand his frustration, but Ferrari have been good to him as he has never really returned to full form after the accident. I guess he is just sick of being #2. Maybe if he gets a ride he will be happier on equal terms with another driver in a lesser car.
On the flip side, though I don't feel Ferrari owe him anything at all, they really had nothing to gain doing what they did either. The title is gone at this point, and the finishing order won't help them in constructors points. If they think Alonso is #1, make him prove it on track rather than think he will always have a lapdog to order around through the team.
Here's the thing.
Felipe is still employed by, and under contract to, Scuderia Ferrari.
He should therefore do what they say.
It is irrelevant what his justification for not wanting to is, it is of no consequence that he would rather not.
He is an employee, not a free man.
It says a lot about the character of Domenicali that this has happened.
It would not have happened on Todts watch.
Didn't quite deter Alonso from calling his team folk idiots over the team radio after the Monza qualifying, Or isn't Alonso an employee, too. And even if you are an employee, you are still a free man. Slavery has been abolished long time ago - unless you live in Alabama or whatever run-down slum you come from.Quote:
Originally Posted by Parabolica
^^^^^ THIS POST HAS BEEN MADE BY DJ_BYTEDISASTER, WHO IS CURRENTLY ON YOUR IGNORE LIST^^^^^
Quote:
Originally Posted by Parabolica
Very true, if in fact he contract states that he must give up a position when asked to do so. A contract is only as good as the specifics within it.
There is a huge difference between being an employee and being a contractor. Unless specified otherwise in specifics you can suggest, request or advise a contractor.... but usually they don't have to comply with anything not in writing and specific.
Felipe feels he is being screwed and wants to screw them back for a change. Though I'm not fan of Stefano he may not be able to do anything about it unless he wants to pay the contractor to leave now and replace him. It might even be costing Felipe money for all we know, but without contract specifics it's all speculation.
oh the irony. :laugh: How did you see it if I'm on your ignore list, Einstein? Or should I say vhatever or tamburello or Natalie.S :laugh:Quote:
Originally Posted by Parabolica
Who wants to bet that I get bored before he does?Quote:
Originally Posted by Parabolica
Insider Tip -,It's not a good bet.
Someone who needs to create new accounts again and again after getting continously banned must be kinda bored I agree. But thats as far as I'll take it. I've been around for over ten years and I'm not gonna risk a ban because of a Durak like you, who's only purpüose in life seems to be to troll other people, who want to enjoy their love for the sport.Quote:
Originally Posted by Parabolica
Is he normally this slow on the uptake?Quote:
Originally Posted by Parabolica
I've been ignoring him for weeks.
Felipe , Fernando is faster than you .
Sorry , Mousa , but it's true .
The reds pay this guy million$ to drive for them . That's "drive for them" , in case anybody missed that little portion of my statement .
What he's done here is trip over his pouty lower lip , because he could have shown himself as still fast , but more so loyal , to a team who nursed him back to health and held his position for him .
It was early on in the race , so who really knows how it could have affected the results , both in terms of timing , and in terms of extra tire wear on Alonso's car .
He's just shown , once again , that he will disobey team orders as it suits him .
Is his Ferrari experience worth the risk of experiencing the pout for any potential employers ?
100% agree with the above post.
Whilst we do not know the exact details of driver contracts, if the team asks you to do something and you don't, it does nothing for your reputation.
Look at how badly Sebastian's personal credibility was damaged in Malaysia.
Sebastian is a present, multiple World Champion, so has some leverage to get away with a stunt like he did in Malaysia, team-wise.
Felipe has underperformed on more occasions than I can count, so doesnt have such a great position to play from.
In terms of being employable, his Japanese Sunday was a personal Hari-Kari performance. Beaten by his team-mate on pace, overtaken on merit by his team-mate, not folowing team orders and gaining a Drive-Through that cost his team valuable points.
All in all, Employee Of The Month material? No, not at all.
Also, if it was ok for Felipe to do it, then it was ok for Webber to do it back in Silverstone 2011? That wouldn't be different because it didnt involve our friend Fernando, would it? Because that would be a woefully poor state of affairs.
OK then the last three and a half year Felipe has been a lapdog, perhaps itīs written in his contract.
Next year will be a diffrent matter, for sure.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZoESZe0mCs
Yes, fully alongside! Level, even!
Massa's onboard proves it!
Please Note - Those of a Kimi Disposition, who may suffer from Unable-To-Apportionate-Fault-On-Their-Boy-Syndrome, may wish to look away.
Kimi evidently was.
Check it out Tarski, Alonso followed the instructions of his team in the episode you have related implicitly. He was just pissed off they didn't work very well and expressed his frustration. Massa it appears willfully broke a team order. Do you understand the difference you dumb hick?Quote:
Originally Posted by dj_bytedisaster
I wouldn't bother, Alca.
Don't get yourself banned because of provocation.
Well that's something you have ample experience with vthatever/tamburello/Natalie.S :laugh:Quote:
Originally Posted by Parabolica
Quote:
Originally Posted by Parabolica
I completely agree, and had already stated in another thread that I would have preferred if Felipe took the high road and just did as asked. As the race showed, he had nothing to gain by pouting, and everything to lose. Now he has proven both that he is not a team player in this circumstance, and that Alonso was faster.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bagwan
But depending on his contract specifics, maybe he's been being a team player for years and is just sick of it. Personally I think if Alonso was as great as some claim, there would never really be a need for team orders. My guess is that Felipe is just sick of bowing down to the team in his current state of bitterness. I don't think the team owe him a thing, but Felipe just doesn't seem to see it that way.
Now all you have to do is find a rule that says you can force a driver off the track. I've never seen that one in the Sporting Regs myself.Quote:
Originally Posted by Parabolica
Alonso caused his own puncture and the video makes it clear. Kimi was not required to yield when Fred turned into him.
Do you think it's a conspiracy theory that Kimi got away with playing by the rules?
On the contract dear sir, Massa has always been a team player. When he was partnered with The Shoe, he always played ball, always. I think the fact that he is being dropped by Ferrari at the end of the season has made him feel he doesn't have to comply anymore as his job is already done and dusted. I for one won't begrudge him that, let him race.Quote:
Originally Posted by airshifter
Except there is no turning in by Fernando. There is a clear failure by Kimi to avoid a collision.Quote:
Originally Posted by airshifter
Fault 100% his.
True, there was no Stewards punishment. And they are totally infallible, aren't they? They've never made a dumb call?