Student Riots

If Labour had not spent so much it would have reserves for this rainy day, but Blair/Brown/Balls spunked them all away. Not to mention the whole gold selling farce (this in itself is far bigger than the bank bailout).

I was just poor house keeping on an epic scale. Just as was trying to spend your way out of recession/debt proved to be.

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Originally Posted by Bolton Midnight

Not to mention the whole gold selling farce (this in itself is far bigger than the bank bailout).

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You think that the loss of £2bn (link) is "far bigger" than the £850bn (Dec 2009 figure - link) required to bailout the banks?

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Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1

It was just one of many reasons IMHO. For one thing, as I mentioned earlier, the Brown changes were implemented in 1997. It's all very easy to say it was the wrong thing to do with hindsight but at the time was there much criticism of the changes from the opposition, or many alternatives offered, or any idea of what was going to occur a decade later?

More importantly is the fact that this was a financial crisis of global, not national, proportions. What the crisis is showing us is just how interlinked the world economy is and how comparatively powerless national governments are when it comes to controlling such events.

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It was a Global crisis but we were ill equipped to deal with it, especially compared to many of our European neighbours.

If we're being objective, Bolton Midnight makes some valid points regarding the amount of money that was wasted by creating a bloated public sector. It makes me so angry that a Government and a Leader with dubious mandate could fritter away not just money on maintaining power but lives with it's deplorable scant regard for it's armed forces.

If I were a Labour supporter, I think I would be ashamed of their performance rather than trying to defend them and their behaviour.

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Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1

You think that the loss of £2bn (link) is "far bigger" than the £850bn (Dec 2009 figure - link) required to bailout the banks?

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One is a loss one is a loan. One will be repaid with massive profits the other has just gone for ever.

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Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1

You think that the loss of £2bn (link) is "far bigger" than the £850bn (Dec 2009 figure - link) required to bailout the banks?

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Can we not agree that £2bn is a huge amount of money to fritter away through incompetance.

The bank bailout is one thing and hopefully we will get most of the money back but the banking crisis was not of Labours making (even if some of thir actions made the situation worse as we have discussed).

But the Gold fiasco was .... was..... was.... AHHHHHHH!!!!!!

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Originally Posted by skc

If I were a Labour supporter, I think I would be ashamed of their performance rather than trying to defend them and their behaviour.

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It does demonstrate the level of brainwashing in your 'average' Labour supporter though. I am a staunch Tory but when they do things wrong imho I say as much. I do not agree with the VAT increase for example at a time when we need to get folk spending adding yet more taxation to pay for the Olympics is stupid.

I want them to get tougher on Unions for example, not talk about it but do it, at least 50% for strike action seems only sensible, how can the minority call a strike?

Massive pay cuts for public sector workers (25% across the board for any non essential worker earning more than min wage). If they don't like that then fine they are free to walk (no redundancy required).

Get tough with Brussels instead of allowing them to dictate whether our prisoners can vote or not.

Scrap GCSEs and A Levels as they have become worthless, go back to the 60s and 70s papers in terms of difficulty levels, A* for only the top 5 percent.

Withdraw from Iraq and Afghanistan, put the same soldiers on border control.

Build more motorways and super prisons (and make prisoners earn their keep).

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Originally Posted by Bolton Midnight

It does demonstrate the level of brainwashing in your 'average' Labour supporter though. I am a staunch Tory but when they do things wrong imho I say as much. I do not agree with the VAT increase for example at a time when we need to get folk spending adding yet more taxation to pay for the Olympics is stupid.

I want them to get tougher on Unions for example, not talk about it but do it, at least 50% for strike action seems only sensible, how can the minority call a strike?

Massive pay cuts for public sector workers (25% across the board for any non essential worker earning more than min wage). If they don't like that then fine they are free to walk (no redundancy required).

Get tough with Brussels instead of allowing them to dictate whether our prisoners can vote or not.

Scrap GCSEs and A Levels as they have become worthless, go back to the 60s and 70s papers in terms of difficulty levels, A* for only the top 5 percent.

Withdraw from Iraq and Afghanistan, put the same soldiers on border control.

Build more motorways and super prisons (and make prisoners earn their keep).

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Did you see V for Vendetta a few months ago as well?

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Originally Posted by Bolton Midnight

I am a staunch Tory but when they do things wrong imho I say as much.

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I do wonder with you, as much as anyone else, if it is a case of born a tory, always a tory? So many people don't form their own educated opinions and don't ever think to change their colours when genuinely better policies are formed. This isn't particularly relevant right now, as the Tories are moving in the right direction, but could you ever become Labor BM?

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Originally Posted by Bolton Midnight

Build more motorways and super prisons (and make prisoners earn their keep).

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Disagree a little with this. I live within earshot of the M6 and it's not great hearing it all of the time. Yes, upgrade some existing roads in need of it (A11, A17) but I disagree with building more new motorways. In fact I disagree with most greenfield developments and increases in population, but that's for another thread alltogether.

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Originally Posted by Daniel

Did you see V for Vendetta a few months ago as well?

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What are you babbling on about now? You need help, sort yourself out FFS.

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Originally Posted by AndySpeed

I do wonder with you, as much as anyone else, if it is a case of born a tory, always a tory? So many people don't form their own educated opinions and don't ever think to change their colours when genuinely better policies are formed. This isn't particularly relevant right now, as the Tories are moving in the right direction, but could you ever become Labor BM?


Disagree a little with this. I live within earshot of the M6 and it's not great hearing it all of the time. Yes, upgrade some existing roads in need of it (A11, A17) but I disagree with building more new motorways. In fact I disagree with most greenfield developments and increases in population, but that's for another thread alltogether.

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Im my yoof I was very much a socialist (but granted is was probably more a kick against more privileged upbringing than anything else).

But I grew up and realised that socialism and communism never work, whereas capitalism works (although of course greed was the ultimate cause of this recession be it greed for wealth in the banker's case or greed for power and control in Labour's case).

I thought the Lib Dem's idea of taking everyone under10k out of income tax a brilliant idea as long as it wasn't paid for by a house tax, so can see the validity in other political parties thinkings.

I did think that Labour were going to help reduce the gap between the haves and have nots (which is always a good thing) when they came in but instead they actually widened it. Ditto reduced social mobility which again is a good thing just because someone lives on a sink estate should not stop them attending Uni if they are bright enough.

With a good lob I could have got a stone onto the M6 from where I lived, noise wasn't an issue. Well until it stopped and then and only then did you notice it.