I think we need to see one restrictor size as 33mm for all classes.
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I think we need to see one restrictor size as 33mm for all classes.
Could have sworn I seen RRC on some FIA document or other.
When do S2000 homologations finish? 2013?
I assume there soon will be R5 + kit = WRC. 2014? In theory this could reduce WRC costs.
Nope, if I am not mistaken homologation ends 7 years after the car is not produced anymore (can be further prolonged). Most of S2000 homologations will be still valid after 2015 planned reduction of classes and cars.
If You mean when it is not possible to homologate completely new S2000 1.6T cars anymore than I have no answer (2.0 S2000 were banned for new homologations already in January 2011). I don't think FIA plans something like that because the only thing which it would cause is to rise the price of R5 and that really is not what is wanted. If You think You would make WRC cheaper by that the answer is no unless You somehow manage to ban works team competition...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
Sorry, meant to say when are FIA stopping new S2000 1.6T homologations?
Makes sense to stop them, if they are pushing R5. Since R5 is supposed to replace S2000/R4, not sure it makes sense for new manufacturers to make S2000 turbo and R5. Hence kit to make R5 a WRC would save having to build an S2000, to make a WRC. Something the FIA haven't explained.
Maybe this is something they are planning for 2014.
Amazing the number of R5 about to be homologated, considering its something that should have been done a long time ago.
The purpose of R5 is to be more affordable. I am afraid that using S2000 as a base for WRC made S2000 more expensive not the WRC reasonably less expensive (that's something which in my opinion can never be achieved by technical rules). The same would happen with R5. I hope they stay as they are for good of all levels of rallying.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
If they enforce a €170k cap on R5, will be interesting to see if they cap WRC prices.
Sometimes wonder if the S2000 based WRC's were a mistake from day one as they never seemed to met the aim of reduced costs.
But a price cap doesn't really do anything does it? Sure the car may be capped at $xxx,xxx but the cost will be made up in the spares and rebuilds. Unless the fia set a price for every nut and bolt and labor...Quote:
Originally Posted by bt52b
Dayum, mang that's a great idea! I think I be charging for the box and the tape and the Sooooper Bitchin Green I'm about to spray on you know what....should I charge for the gas to UPS tomorrow? What about the labor of carrying the boxes in? :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:Quote:
Originally Posted by TyPat107
(hint hint)
S2000 had price cap too. I think for R5 it is same as for S2000. The cap is for asphalt kit, not for complete car. The price of the car will be cca same with S2000, that is around 250 thousand. What is different is that for R5 there is planned to have simpler maintenance and much longer revision cycles (for example they speak about 5000 SS km for engine - compare to 700-1500 for S2000).Quote:
Originally Posted by bt52b
S2000 actually had price cap for many components and I believe current WRC cars have it too. The problem is that by lobbying manufacturers have strong word in settings those limits. I can't imagine a price cap for mens labor.Quote:
Originally Posted by TyPat107
Anyway anything what is going to be the pinnacle of the sport will always be expensive because there is always someone willing to pay for the best. I'm sure You saw the law of this phenomena - the dependence of price and quality. Close to the top every little step forward You do costs hell of money and time. I don't see this changing unless we make WRC one make cup without direct works involvement.
Get real Mirek. S2000 didn't turn expensive because they inspired WRC1.6T. They completely overtake cap prices (from initial 168.000€ to over 300.000€ ;) simply because they were used by factory teams to compete on IRC manufacturers tittles.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
The same will happen to R5 in ERC.
Every time a manu uses a car to compete with other makes in an international series, costs rise hugely. It's an arms race and for that manus don't look to expenses. Factory teams entered cars are continuously updated in an endless process of technical development to reach the perfect set-up using state of the art components. That involves a permanent testing programe and a large number of new homologations.
Obviously, all this costly operations will be reflected in costumer's units sale price. That's way it's hard to believe that a full specs R5 car (tarmac and gravel) will cost under 250.000€ (largely over FIA target price), but in a few months will know it for sure.