Student Riots

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Originally Posted by Mark

Indeed, whatever government in power it was completely necessary to borrow a lot of money to get us out of the hole we (and the banks) had dug for ourselves. Then of course any government would have had to claw that back. The problem is when you hear "All Labours fault", when if the tories were in power they would have had to have done the same - no choice.

Yes, of course better regulation could have avoided this problem, but we've still seen downturns in countries which didn't indulge in the lending spree, you can't insulate yourself from global shocks as much as many would like to think

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As I said, Gordon removed that legislation. That's what pisses me off. It wasn't all him because Maggie done half the damage after the Labour Government of the 70's managed to put some restrictions on and sort out Heaths Inflation cock-up. However, it was Gordon that removed the last check and said banks could lend as much as they want and when you've lured everyone in and need to make some more money, you can then put up interest rates to fleece people.

This is quite a fair history.

http://www.variant.org.uk/9texts/RobinRamsay.html

So, the removal of control is a big issue and that in recent years is all Gordons fault and we have a over inflated Public sector which will also have to be addressed.

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Originally Posted by skc

Yes, we can blame the bankers for being greedy but isn't that a bit like blaming a fox for eating chickens. No you don't? You build a fence which, funnily enough, was actually in place until Farmer Brown lifted up the wire to let the fox in.

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I assume you're referring to this:

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...splitting financial regulation between the Treasury, the Financial Services Authority and the Bank of England meant there was inadequate surveillance of the stability of the financial system.

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(link)
Is there an argument to say that in 1997, when the above was put in place, the regulations were appropriate for the time and Chancellor Brown could not have foreseen what followed a decade later? After all bankers, like F1 teams, will always do what they can to find a way around regulations!!

We also had the housing bubble, where property was massively overvalued and based on the amount people could borrow rather than any realistic worth. We'll be feeling the effects of that for decades to come.

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Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1

If you ever take the blue blinkers off you might have a better chance of seeing the full picture.

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Like this you mean?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/news...g-sockets.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/t...FI-legacy.html

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Originally Posted by skc

So, the removal of control is a big issue and that in recent years is all Gordons fault and we have a over inflated Public sector which will also have to be addressed.

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Correct. The coalition is trying to address the massive over spend / over staffing within the Public Sector, but nobody wants to tackle the pension deficit, which is absolutely huge, staggeringly huge in fact, you'd have to be a complete idiot to have let it get so out of hand.

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Originally Posted by Bolton Midnight

Like this you mean?

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No

So exactly which controls did Gordon Brown remove, and apparently in so doing give the finance industry licence to go nuts and cause the worst financial crisis since the 1930s? Did he have responsibility for US mortgages issued to subprime borrowers?

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Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1

No

So exactly which controls did Gordon Brown remove, and apparently in so doing give the finance industry licence to go nuts and cause the worst financial crisis since the 1930s? Did he have responsibility for US mortgages issued to subprime borrowers?

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Mr Brown's decision to remove banking supervision from the Bank of England and hand it to the FSA

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz1C9kuGs47

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/4...ngs-right.html

Right. The changes referred to in post #561 which did not remove any financial controls, regulation or supervision but which split the same between the Treasury, the Financial Services Authority and the Bank of England in 1997.

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Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1

I assume you're referring to this: (link)
Is there an argument to say that in 1997, when the above was put in place, the regulations were appropriate for the time and Chancellor Brown could not have foreseen what followed a decade later? After all bankers, like F1 teams, will always do what they can to find a way around regulations!!

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Blimey, that was a coincidence. Talk about good timing.

Yes, this was one of the main reasons for the failure. The Finance community wooed Brown, massaging his ego and secured this licence to print money. It means they can practically self regulate.

I have the advantage of not being aligned to any political party so am not clouded when making an opinion. This was a terrible decision and one that did not need an economics expert to see the implications.

Labour put the regulations in place after Heath's stupidity and the Conservatives were lambasted for removing some of them. I dare say they didn't expect one of their own to do the dirty. Not even the Major or Thatcher Governments attempted that so I can only conclude that Brown was hopelessly incompetent and didn't have a clue what he was doing.

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Originally Posted by skc

Yes, this was one of the main reasons for the failure. The Finance community wooed Brown, massaging his ego and secured this licence to print money. It means they can practically self regulate.

I have the advantage of not being aligned to any political party so am not clouded when making an opinion. This was a terrible decision and one that did not need an economics expert to see the implications.

Labour put the regulations in place after Heath's stupidity and the Conservatives were lambasted for removing some of them. I dare say they didn't expect one of their own to do the dirty. Not even the Major or Thatcher Governments attempted that so I can only conclude that Brown was hopelessly incompetent and didn't have a clue what he was doing.

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Yep

Quite a few did foresee this all unfolding and tried to warn Labour. Vince Cable was one AFAIK, think Ken Clarke did too.

Brown the world saver was in fact the worst Chancellor ever.

But the bank bailout, bankers bonuses etc is a drop in the ocean compared with the billions Labour spunked away on the public sector (buying votes). The bailout will be paid back with interest so that really isn't of any great concern.

I'm more concerned about the high rate of taxation and what is subsequently done with my money. Labour taxed us all to the hilt (and the Coalition don't seem to be in any rush to turn that round - no doubt because of the huge debts Labour created).

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Originally Posted by skc

Yes, this was one of the main reasons for the failure.

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It was just one of many reasons IMHO. For one thing, as I mentioned earlier, the Brown changes were implemented in 1997. It's all very easy to say it was the wrong thing to do with hindsight but at the time was there much criticism of the changes from the opposition, or many alternatives offered, or any idea of what was going to occur a decade later?

More importantly is the fact that this was a financial crisis of global, not national, proportions. What the crisis is showing us is just how interlinked the world economy is and how comparatively powerless national governments are when it comes to controlling such events.