Max Mosley opens a can of worms.

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Originally Posted by janneppi

Well, what would you call counteless vulgar references to Mosleys private life, provacative personal comments about peoples ethics and moral, unpleasant xenophobic comments, and of course the normal off topic bickering which has little to do with the actual subject?
Just to name some things on the top of my head. I'd call those pretty stupid. ;)

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I thought your original comment about insane bickering, or whatever it was, was meant tongue-in-cheek. I didn't realise it was intended to be serious.

For what it's worth, I think this thread has been pleasingly devoid of stupidity, even though people may disagree with one another. Discussion of individual morals is always going to cause disagreements, but I think it's highly relevant to explore this in a topic on a forum about motorsport when the subject, which is sadly the highest-profile subject to do with motorsport to have arisen for some time, is so inextricably linked with the views of individuals about personal conduct. To stop discussion of this subject would be ridiculous. Therefore, I don't see any way in which we can be prevented from talking about moral issues, for our opinions about Max Mosley and what should happen within the FIA are very closely linked with our own personal views about morals and privacy.

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Originally Posted by BDunnell

I thought your original comment about insane bickering, or whatever it was, was meant tongue-in-cheek. I didn't realise it was intended to be serious.

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Rest assured, there was some tongue involved :facelick: , altough with some bitter complaining. ;) I thought that was obvious for everyone.

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Originally Posted by BDunnell

I thought your original comment about insane bickering, or whatever it was, was meant tongue-in-cheek. I didn't realise it was intended to be serious.

For what it's worth, I think this thread has been pleasingly devoid of stupidity, even though people may disagree with one another. Discussion of individual morals is always going to cause disagreements, but I think it's highly relevant to explore this in a topic on a forum about motorsport when the subject, which is sadly the highest-profile subject to do with motorsport to have arisen for some time, is so inextricably linked with the views of individuals about personal conduct. To stop discussion of this subject would be ridiculous. Therefore, I don't see any way in which we can be prevented from talking about moral issues, for our opinions about Max Mosley and what should happen within the FIA are very closely linked with our own personal views about morals and privacy.

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This was something revealed that should have stayed private--as i said and some others said when it first became known. To date, I glanced at their page, just trying to figure out what the talk was, realized what it was and have never gone back. And if I had known more, I would not have even done that.

At first i thought this should have nothing to do with nothing as to racing, but then once I realized how public the sport is, well.....

Unfortunately, once smeared all over the world, it is a bit too difficult to put all of this back in a bottle and put it behind the cupboard.

Not only that, but it makes F1 fans and the F1 establishment appear to be the worst sort of hypocrites to the rest of the world. We would condemn some fans for dressing up and mocking Hamilton, so to make clear the unacceptability of such conduct, F1 (and FIA) start a massive program (with threats of banning events etc) against such stuff, only to have something like this mess of Max smeared all over, with the clear, nasty implications arising from these actvities, yet take a vote to have him stay.

And what he did, does easily lead itself to some gallows type humor, to most anyone with a sense of humor.

But back to Spain, I thought that was an over-reaction to people having fun, but many disagreed, because it touched on race.

Max's behavior clearly involved a much darker, nastier subject, but the FIA officially turns its head and goes on, due in part to what I beleive to be an excellent example of the political action and power of that little book, the prince, and perhaps greed or fear of some others about what might happen if Max were gone.

But the hypocrisy of the entire mess is overwhelming once you look at it from the outside world.

But all in all, I thought the debates last year over Mac and so forth, were far more interesting and challenging without the danger of getting into stuff like this......but no one, especially any poster or moderator on this forum, is responsible for damaging the image of F1, or exposing Max to to the basis for such ridcule, except Max himself.

So it does provoke deep emotions, even to the point of a moderator jumping on people in the same way that when some others have done it, has gotten them scolded or banned.

It should have never had anything to do with racing and F1 , but NOW it has everything to do with it, and the longer Max hangs around, the more the stench of it while remain in the air around F1.

markabilly, I think that was an excellent post, even though I have come to think that Max might have been hard done by. :up:

Yep, I agree, some excellent points were made in markabilly's post.
I especially like the part about being scolded or banned for the same behavior or less! :D :p :

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Originally Posted by Bagwan

I have not engaged in this aspect of this discussion , but I see direct relevence to the subject at hand .

It is our societal behavior that gives us the morals with which we judge such issues .

That you find this aspect of the subject to be "inane" , and "bickering" is "irrelevant" .
It is related .

I also find it distasteful for you , to call this debate "insanely stupid bickering" .
Sorry , Janneppi , but that was insulting , and the kind of comment that regularly incites behavior that gets good debates such as this , closed down .


The morality of extra-marital activities , in this issue , was key to the success of the "sting" .
Max's success in defeating those who wanted to smear his name had the idea that the scandal itself would be enough to be worse in the public eye , than the idea of the "sting" , itself .
The addition of the uniforms gave it more weight , in terms of headlines , but served only to underline the issue that it was a man's personal life at it's most private .

Apart from implanting the thought of one's privacy being compromised , and the guilt involved with exposure , nobody gains here .
Perhaps some of the rich set have taken extra steps to keep things more private , and employed more people to staff video surveillance camera banks .

That they would go so far as to start talks of going without the FIA speaks reams about how this wasn't anything to do with morals in the first place .

Bernie said Max should go before the vote .
After the vote he said he was glad he didn't go .
Now , he sits to discuss the idea of going on without Max and the rest of the FIA .

As a member of the CAA , I am someone who was represented by my country's organization at the vote . It did not represent my views .

I would never dream of having extra-marital activity in my life , and do not condone such , but , my right to privacy relates to theft of something mine .
Theft involves loss of trust , and trust is most important of all .

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Good grief!!! what have you been smoking?? Where did you get that stuff?? Where do I get some?

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Originally Posted by janneppi

Well, what would you call counteless vulgar references to Mosleys private life, provacative personal comments about peoples ethics and moral, unpleasant xenophobic comments, and of course the normal off topic bickering which has little to do with the actual subject?
Just to name some things on the top of my head. I'd call those pretty stupid. ;)

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Agreed!! :up: In fact, I defy anyone to sit at his computer and read this thread through from the beginning again.

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Originally Posted by Bagwan

.

The difference between this issue and Max's , in this sense , is only that his issue has nothing to do with his job .

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I disagree - it was a scientific study of the symptoms and after effects of whiplash!!

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Originally Posted by markabilly

This was something revealed that should have stayed private--as i said and some others said when it first became known. To date, I glanced at their page, just trying to figure out what the talk was, realized what it was and have never gone back. And if I had known more, I would not have even done that.

At first i thought this should have nothing to do with nothing as to racing, but then once I realized how public the sport is, well.....

Unfortunately, once smeared all over the world, it is a bit too difficult to put all of this back in a bottle and put it behind the cupboard.

Not only that, but it makes F1 fans and the F1 establishment appear to be the worst sort of hypocrites to the rest of the world. We would condemn some fans for dressing up and mocking Hamilton, so to make clear the unacceptability of such conduct, F1 (and FIA) start a massive program (with threats of banning events etc) against such stuff, only to have something like this mess of Max smeared all over, with the clear, nasty implications arising from these actvities, yet take a vote to have him stay.

And what he did, does easily lead itself to some gallows type humor, to most anyone with a sense of humor.

But back to Spain, I thought that was an over-reaction to people having fun, but many disagreed, because it touched on race.

Max's behavior clearly involved a much darker, nastier subject, but the FIA officially turns its head and goes on, due in part to what I beleive to be an excellent example of the political action and power of that little book, the prince, and perhaps greed or fear of some others about what might happen if Max were gone.

But the hypocrisy of the entire mess is overwhelming once you look at it from the outside world.

But all in all, I thought the debates last year over Mac and so forth, were far more interesting and challenging without the danger of getting into stuff like this......but no one, especially any poster or moderator on this forum, is responsible for damaging the image of F1, or exposing Max to to the basis for such ridcule, except Max himself.

So it does provoke deep emotions, even to the point of a moderator jumping on people in the same way that when some others have done it, has gotten them scolded or banned.

It should have never had anything to do with racing and F1 , but NOW it has everything to do with it, and the longer Max hangs around, the more the stench of it while remain in the air around F1.

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Very good post. When you are serious and lay off that cool aid, you write very, very well. I have to view you in a totally new light.

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Originally Posted by markabilly

It should have never had anything to do with racing and F1 , but NOW it has everything to do with it, and the longer Max hangs around, the more the stench of it while remain in the air around F1.

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A point never better illustrated by the recent Agence France Presse story about Max Mosley going to court in Paris against the News of the World. As GrandPrix.com point out the story begins : "Formula One boss Max Mosley has filed a lawsuit in Paris ..."