What Happens Next?

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Originally Posted by heelntoe

Just one more completely incorrect post and absurd spin. The convention had ZERO to do with the cancellation of Denver, San Jose was much CCWS's fault as the promoter in KK's backyard, and Mexico was MOST DEFINITELY near gone as it would not have happened without the 11th hour driver switcheroo.

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In your opinion.

wrong again, here's the real story-

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Pepsi Center officials, however, informed Champ Car that the 2008 date needed to be changed because of the Democratic National Convention. Champ Car said there would be no Denver race in 2008.
"We were in the process of identifying existing Champ Car promoters to step in and run the event or work with someone else," Champ Car spokesman Eric Mauk wrote in an e-mail. "With the 2008 date unquestionably being taken away from us by the convention, it was proving difficult for someone to be enthusiastic to come in and do the race for one year.

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http://www.denverpost.com/headlines/ci_5139799

The Mexico City race always had a contract and was never in trouble of being cancelled. The drivers were substituted to help the promoter and that is what he asked for. The promoter also said the race had a contract and makes a profit. This was posted by net-ranger on another forum. The promoter also said he is ready to continue this event with CC.

Unles you can come up with something more solid ,this is credible. IMO.

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Originally Posted by sanguin

In your opinion.

wrong again, here's the real story-



http://www.denverpost.com/headlines/ci_5139799

The Mexico City race always had a contract and was never in trouble of being cancelled. The drivers were substituted to help the promoter and that is what he asked for. The promoter also said the race had a contract and makes a profit. This was posted by net-ranger on another forum. The promoter also said he is ready to continue this event with CC.

Unles you can come up with something more solid ,this is credible. IMO.

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Oh well, you got me there! Only one problem...CCWS had every intention of running Denver for '07 but messed it up...there were also plans for an alternate site which dated back to '04 in the event there were convention problems (I was in those meetings!). As for Eric's comments, it was pr spin 100%...I have been in many many meetings with Eric, which you really should catch on by about now...I was there for a lot of the time these deals were formed or put down. Mexico was a contractual obligation and to say it's profitable is disingenouos as attendance has fallen steadily.

And nowehere do you respond to screw-ups of Miami and Fontana...so?

So Eric and CC and the promoter of the Mexico City race are all lying .When it comes to anonymous sources on these forums ,I always ask who would I believe? What is said by credible links/persons now? Or a disgruntled ex-employee from 5 years ago that has an ax to grind?

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Originally Posted by sanguin

So Eric and CC and the promoter of the Mexico City race are all lying .When it comes to anonymous sources on these forums ,I always ask who would I believe? What is said by credible links/persons now? Or a disgruntled ex-employee from 5 years ago that has an ax to grind?

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As i have stated more times than i care to remember, I was NEVER an employee of CCWS and as I have established my credibility over a period of years as opposed to a less than two month internet "fan" poster who keeps changing his identity and can't accept the truth, I really don't care what you believe...I care about what credible posters with objective opinions or agenda opinions believe...as long as they can debate intelligently. Go back to pr 101 class if you actually believe what Eric and the CCWS PR machine has been throwing out there over the past 18 months.

And back to my question which you don't want to answer, what about Miami and Fontana?

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Originally Posted by ChaimWitz

Can somebody please prove me wrong and make a rational case for Champ Car's long term survival and prosperity?

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It won't come from the pompom wavers. They drank the koolaid and think the CC world is wonderful. Don't worry, be happy. They don't have to make a case for the future because they just know it's going to be great, just because they say so. CC is on a wave upward! No facts, no answers to questions asked, no interest in a civil dialog, not even acknowledgment of anyone who doesn't agree with their delusion. Just the same silly cheerleading and forum bombardment over and over and over and over and over and .........

Eventually they will learn a basic fact of life. Just wanting something to happen and making positive claims doesn't create a reality. It is just dreaming. Making dreams real takes a lot more. Results occur when people analyze the facts objectively, ask the hard questions, weight the pro's and con's, make accurate forecasts, get the right resources in place and ACT.

While the dreamers are quite literally flooding this forum with overly optimistic fantasy, the real CC just appears to be sitting. No response from anyone from CC about the recent articles and statements from the CC stalwarts like Walker and Wiggins, no announcements of future plans, no nothing. Why would anyone with a brain think this is a positive sign? Anyone who has ever had the misfortune to work for a failing company in its death throes can see the warning signs. When the bosses stop communicating, and the only future is the day after today because all of the effort is putting out today's bonfire, there is no long term future.

Unless something drastically changes, the question is not if, but when the end will come. What a sad legacy.

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Originally Posted by beachbum

It won't come from the pompom wavers. They drank the koolaid and think the CC world is wonderful. Don't worry, be happy.

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Not the same koolaid!! I don't believe that Champcar is trying to fool all of us, (aside from all of the IRL fans who refuse to leave this forum) that the series doesn't have any isuues that need to be dealt with. However, I do think that if Champcar doesn't change the way in which they promote the series, and totally revamp the organization of advertising and funding into a department that is heavily focused on promoting for the life of the series (much like the NFL does) then the series certainly isn't going to advance into anything but what it is now!!!!

We all know the potential of this series, and that is exactly why I am a loyal follower of Champcar. I have seen their distant past, and hopefully will see the distant future. Champcar is exciting!

KK, put your money where your mouth is, and you will see the series reach out to where it belongs!

Been reading this thread since the beginning, very entertaining, and a lot of good info/thoughts...

This Sanguin character though...wow...he's brought people I've read for years, and know to be CC die hards, against him and his ridiculous assertions.

My .02cents for "what happens next": ChampCar folds this offseason or hangs on another year as a viable entity in the United States. After that they have to go international to survive, and with mostly U.S. based teams, this seems a stretch.

In my opinion the IRL's movement towards road and street course racing was the death nail for CC in the U.S. Regardless of CC's horrible mismanagement, ride buyers, oval abandonment, etc. This single factor, combined with the defections doomed them to the margins of the U.S. racing scene. They've lost touch with their history, they've lost their uniqueness, so...what do they have?

When you combine the Indy 500, the "names", and a true commitement to the U.S. market, how can CC hope to actually beat IndyCar's in the states? It just doesn't make sense.

Ideally, CC's death will see a return to even more historic road racing venues for AOWR. We won't see 1990's greatness again, but we can see something far better than the current mediocre state, with everyone fleeing to NASCAR, weak spec cars, and pathetic infighting.

I now smell burning Champ Car toast in Las Vegas (not surprising) and at one of the Canadian venues (surprising). I am hearing that the Amigo's toaster may be on fire in China (not surprising) and in Europe as well (surprising). If the latter is true, what happens next? Where does Champ Car go to find the sanction fees to stay alive?

Then there is the A1GP + Ferrari announcement. That development must complicate things for the Amigos and their faltering international strategy.

I also hear that RuSport is not the only team on the edge of oblivion. I think we should all get ready for some more bad news. For those who want links, we will all no doubt get them soon enough.

The fact that the final two races of the year are actually going to take place as scheduled can't be the only good news. In most professional series, that is a given. Where is the new series sponsor or the new teams or all the new venues for 2008? We should know soon if all these positive rumors where only phantoms at the end of a horrible nightmare or if they are indeed real, ensuring Champ Car's salvation (again). Sadly, the only Champ Car rumors that seem to come true these days are the negative ones.

I ask again: Can someone please make a rational case for Champ Car's long term survival and prosperity?

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Originally Posted by ChaimWitz

I now smell burning Champ Car toast in Las Vegas (not surprising) and at one of the Canadian venues (surprising). I am hearing that the Amigo's toaster may be on fire in China (not surprising) and in Europe as well (surprising). If the latter is true, what happens next? Where does Champ Car go to find the sanction fees to stay alive?

Then there is the A1GP + Ferrari announcement. That development must complicate things for the Amigos and their faltering international strategy.

I also hear that RuSport is not the only team on the edge of oblivion. I think we should all get ready for some more bad news. For those who want links, we will all no doubt get them soon enough.

The fact that the final two races of the year are actually going to take place as scheduled can't be the only good news. In most professional series, that is a given. Where is the new series sponsor or the new teams or all the new venues for 2008? We should know soon if all these positive rumors where only phantoms at the end of a horrible nightmare or if they are indeed real, ensuring Champ Car's salvation (again). Sadly, the only Champ Car rumors that seem to come true these days are the negative ones.

I ask again: Can someone please make a rational case for Champ Car's long term survival and prosperity?

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Been also following this stuff and while some are rumors, these days, bad rumors seem to play out. look to Rocketsports to say bye-bye. I wrote this morning that I thought the Ferrari announcement was a really bad bit of news for the Amigos...notwithstanding Bernie, who has no fond thoughts of KK, David Clare is no doubt gloating at A1 and is likely looking at other venues and schedules as we write...I told our new comedian Sanguin that the next 60 days will prove out a lot of this stuff...today, I think it may be sooner (though I'm sticking to my original prediction :) )

WOW!!!

You guys are all soo important, I don't know who I should believe!!! :rolleyes: