another school shooting in U.S. of A. :(

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21st December 2012, 09:40
SGWilko

Quote:

Originally Posted by chuck34

Really? Tell me more ....

This thread is full of 'telling you more', sadly, it appears that to be in one ear, and out the other.
21st December 2012, 09:58
Knock-on

Quote:

Originally Posted by nigelred5

Agreed, every bit of which is already in place in many jurisdictions in the US,including connecticut where the latest tragedy occurred.

Already in place and ignored by 'responsible' gun owners like you?

The problem seems to be that Americans will pay lip service to Legislation as long as they can justify breaking it at will. Legislation will only apply to other Americans and not them.

This is not a problem restricted to Americans only but is a basic human trait and why gun control will never work. Everyone thinks they are the sane one and it's all the other buggers that are mad.
21st December 2012, 10:03
Brown, Jon Brow

Correct me if I'm wrong but around the time that the 2nd Amendment was dreamt up many other countries would have had similar gun laws to that of the new union? It just seems that at the turn of the 20th century, as firearm technology improved nations started to regulate firearm laws accordingly. But the U.S for whatever reason, perhaps because it was a younger nation, got left behind.
21st December 2012, 10:07
Mintexmemory

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brown, Jon Brow

Correct me if I'm wrong but around the time that the 2nd Amendment was dreamt up many other countries would have had similar gun laws to that of the new union? It just seems that at the turn of the 20th century, as firearm technology improved nations started to regulate firearm laws accordingly. But the U.S for whatever reason, perhaps because it was not really a nation but a conglomerate of self -interested 'grab what you can while it's going' capitalists, got left behind.

EFA
21st December 2012, 11:40
Rudy Tamasz

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mintexmemory

not really a nation but a conglomerate of self -interested 'grab what you can while it's going' capitalists

The world is a bundle of hay,
Mankind are the asses that pull,
Each tugs in a different way—
And the greatest of all is John Bull!

George Byron, A Letter to Thomas Moore (1821-06-22).
21st December 2012, 12:01
Mintexmemory

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rudy Tamasz

The world is a bundle of hay,
Mankind are the asses that pull,
Each tugs in a different way—
And the greatest of all is John Bull!

George Byron, A Letter to Thomas Moore (1821-06-22).

Which was pretty rich coming from Lord Byron who having inherited his pile was as disdainful of the bourgoisie as the rest of his class. Fighting for Greek independance was 'noble'. Trying to make a difference to the lot of the kids working in the mills of England was beneath his attention.
Again, historical events may have had some relevance contemporaneously but in most cases do not prove instructive in modern times. The continuing development of the American Dream does however have a number of features as a direct result of countries / territories such as California and Texas eventually allying with the original 13 colonies to safeguard the wealth of the capital owning classes in those regions. Someone remind me what the American Civil War was all about?
21st December 2012, 12:28
Starter

Quote:

Originally Posted by SGWilko

This thread is full of 'telling you more', sadly, it appears that to be in one ear, and out the other.

We welcome input from all sources. But, like everything else, some is more valuable and worthwhile. We then consider the valuable part and throw out the rubbish.
21st December 2012, 12:29
chuck34

Quote:

Originally Posted by BDunnell

This then leads to statements such as yours below about Europeans having 'no liberties', which are patently nonsense and betray a lack of understanding of other countries.

Apparently my "Sarc" button has failed again. Speaking of the Laws/Rights/Liberties that I live under in this country, in no way say one single solitary thing about your country, or any other country for that matter.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BDunnell

It's not rhetorical laziness at all on my part — it's based on many actual examples.

But when you are having a debate of sorts with me in particular, and I have not said one word about your liberties, then it IS rhetorical laziness.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BDunnell

You will forgive some of us non-Americans a wry chuckle at that, given your country's recent record when it comes to international interference. I say this not to make some cheap shot, but, more specifically, because the actions of one of your recent governments (all too enthusiastically supported by some of ours) have led directly to measures in the name of 'security' that I consider to have gone significantly too far down an undesirable road.

And I too respect the sovereignty of other countries. However, this doesn't mean that they are exempt from criticism.

Ah yes, back to that old gem. "You guys were in wars we don't agree with, so we have the right to tell you what to do". Give me a break.
21st December 2012, 12:31
Rudy Tamasz

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mintexmemory

Which was pretty rich coming from Lord Byron who having inherited his pile was as disdainful of the bourgoisie as the rest of his class. Fighting for Greek independance was 'noble'. Trying to make a difference to the lot of the kids working in the mills of England was beneath his attention.

As the liberty lads o'er the sea
Bought their freedom, and cheaply, with blood,
So we, boys, we
Shall die fighting or live free,
And down with all kings but King Ludd!
Song for the Luddites (1816)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mintexmemory

Again, historical events may have had some relevance contemporaneously but in most cases do not prove instructive in modern times. The continuing development of the American Dream does however have a number of features as a direct result of countries / territories such as California and Texas eventually allying with the original 13 colonies to safeguard the wealth of the capital owning classes in those regions. Someone remind me what the American Civil War was all about?

It was about the interests of middle classes who did not fancy being taxed and otherwise regulated by an unelected and unaccountable government. Fair enough to me.
21st December 2012, 12:33
chuck34

Quote:

Originally Posted by BDunnell

Were one to seek to avoid every possible eventuality, one would never go out.

Or try to legislate away every eventual possibility as you are doing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BDunnell

I continue to be amazed by the way in which you, and others of your opinion, would seek to normalise a situation of fear of violence.

Most people who own guns do not do so out of fear. They do so out of prudence, just like installing smoke detectors. In my opinion those who call to legislate rights away are the one's acting out of fear.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BDunnell

A smoke alarm I consider to be a reasonable, proportionate precaution. A firearm I do not.

Why not?

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