Team orders at Ferrari

"Ze Rulez are ze Rulez", repeateth der Brock for ze umpteenth mal :p

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Originally Posted by donKey jote

"Ze Rulez are ze Rulez", repeateth der Brock for ze umpteenth mal :p

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Massa: I voz only obeying ze orders! :p

Aren't we dangerously close to violating Godwin's Law here ;)

We have FOTA and the Technical Working Group both able the influence the rules, so if they don't like team orders being banned they can lobby the FIA. But until such time as the rule is changed, obey it even if you don't agree with it.

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Originally Posted by 555-04Q2

We both know that Massa moved over because he felt he had too. However, no one said Massa you have to move over or else...this is an order. They dropped a hint and he made up his own mind what to do about it.

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Ha ha ha....i'd love to live in youir world of rainbows and unicorns where people are free to do whatever they want.

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Originally Posted by Mia 01

The article is about Massa and 3* teamorders. the thing is that I´m not god at the german language.

http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/f...s-1948929.html

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It says the team orders came after the third request from Alonso :)
loosely translated:
1st came after the pit stop, but despite them almost touching, the team said no...
then he let the gap increase to 3.4 seconds, which made his engineer nervous:
"no probs, I'll get it back" said Alonso and he closed it again at will to prove he was faster... a slap in the face for Massa
when they were in convoy again, Massa waited till the third (I guess the one we heard) request before acting
the "well done, sorry" comments brought the stewards' response.



I've been thinking... who decides what to broadcast, Bernie?
The same Bernie who has just come out defending team orders?
Who's playing games with the fans?

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Originally Posted by Dave Brockman

Aren't we dangerously close to violating Godwin's Law here ;)

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:andrea: :p

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Originally Posted by Dave Brockman

By the same token, do you seriously think that Rob Smedley's words - delivered so deliberately and carefully - were merely a "hint"?

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And by the same token so is the reiteration and deliberation of 'saving fuel' at the Turkish GP and nobody complains.

It comes down to how good of a liar you are without looking like a kid with his hand caught in the cookie jar.

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Originally Posted by Tazio

:s ailor: I think there is one facet of Ferrari's strategy that is either being ignored or posters are so set on crucifying Fred that it just hasn't occurred to them.
Ferrari (especially Fred) are perilously short on their engine allotment . You may want to argue the letter of the law but I don't. Ferrari knows they cannot risk running in hot dirty air amongst themselves,(most likely why Fred kept dropping his interval back, only to reel Felipe in with ease) and they know Fred is their best hope for a WDC. After the pass the only radio transmission I heard to Fred was: "take it easy on your engine you need it next race" This is a monumental problem that Ferrari got themselves into early in the season. I think it played heavily into the strategy of this race. But by all means... :s ailor: "bash on"

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Perhaps Luca needs to figure out how they can break the seal and 'refresh" those engines....so no one needs to know, and would be perfectly within his announced philosophy on his website

Saint would say it is the natural law of justice.

Me, I think this rule is even dumber, far dumber, than the no team orders rule.
Its only justification is to save costs, yet top teams now spend millions on special parts to keep engine reliability up...and with no real testing, millions more on wind tunnels and computer work.....indeed Mac is able to run their simulator car in such a manner as to set up their race car!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Originally Posted by eu

It's all interesting but this is not a court of law...far from it. If they appeal they have a very good chance to get a bigger penalty. It's quite common not to appeal anything in f1.

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Actually this process is a recognized form of contractual arbitration, recognized and enforced by the courts under international law, that was agreed to when the teams signed off on the agreements involved in F1.

Someone like Ferrari or Flav must first exhusat all administrative remedies, then can go to a formal court of law for an appeal, but by law, the courts are required to uphold the adminstrative findings unless those findings (including the WMSC) are procured by fraud and bribery, along with totally lacking any support of any evidence, as in lacking even one percent of any arguable evidence.

ferrari has chopped its own head off....and not even "sew-it-back" can help

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Originally Posted by wedge

And by the same token so is the reiteration and deliberation of 'saving fuel' at the Turkish GP and nobody complains.

It comes down to how good of a liar you are without looking like a kid with his hand caught in the cookie jar.

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TRUE, VERY TRUE, but some have fussed.....including me.

But now you are arguing that smeone else breaking a rule at a racce without getting caught means you are entitled to break the rule at another race

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Originally Posted by 555-04Q2

I think people are missing the point here. There is a major difference between a hint and an order. Massa was never ordered to do anything.

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Right!! :rolleyes:

Why don't we all agree to disagree on this one. If 555 thinks he wasn't ordered over then that's his opinion and lets respect it.

We have a different opinion which is equally as valid.

Both can be right because he wasn't actually ordered to let Alonso through but the FIA and overwhelming majority of viewers believe the radio transmission was a coded order.

Lets move along?

Thank the lord the copper from Allo Allo was not the guy on the radio to Massa;

'Alonso is going to piss'

;)