Top Gear!

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Originally Posted by Dylan H

I think thats a little unfair on Japanese cars.

Ever thrashed a Honda Type R Integra with a hand finished engine to an inch of its 8700 redline? Felt its tail step out in a way no European maker dared to do back in the late 90s?

How about a smooth rotary engine coupe that feels more like a turbine to drive matched to a well handling RWD chassis.

Or a thrummy torquey flat four ahead of you with a rally-bred chassis?

None of those cars I describe lack character or passion.

Jaguars do nothing for me, nor do Astons. Why not? Because they're all modular constructions spun off the same platform designed and built with a bottom line at heart and a market niche to fill. Each designed specifically not to take sales away from the models above and below. Nothing there for the heart I'm afraid.

Now Alfa? Guilty of platform sharing and everything I criticise Aston and Jaguar for without the build quality but... I still want one. Lancia too.

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Quite agree.

Passion is something that ****y motoring journalists use as an excuse for something being a poor car, or an underperforming car.

I don't think Jon has ever driven any of the things you've mentioned, probably too busy driving his 1.2 8v Grande Punto which is a Corsa with passion :p

If that Jag didn't have a Jag badge on it I doubt most people would look twice.

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Originally Posted by Dylan H

I think thats a little unfair on Japanese cars.

Ever thrashed a Honda Type R Integra with a hand finished engine to an inch of its 8700 redline? Felt its tail step out in a way no European maker dared to do back in the late 90s?

How about a smooth rotary engine coupe that feels more like a turbine to drive matched to a well handling RWD chassis.

Or a thrummy torquey flat four ahead of you with a rally-bred chassis?

None of those cars I describe lack character or passion.

Jaguars do nothing for me, nor do Astons. Why not? Because they're all modular constructions spun off the same platform designed and built with a bottom line at heart and a market niche to fill. Each designed specifically not to take sales away from the models above and below. Nothing there for the heart I'm afraid.

Now Alfa? Guilty of platform sharing and everything I criticise Aston and Jaguar for without the build quality but... I still want one. Lancia too.

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^^ This. I wonder how many people actually ignore really magnificent cars just because they're Japanese or Korean. IMO the Japanese have built some of the best cars in the last three decades. I especially love the Mazda RX-7, what a beast. Also, call me unconventional, I like the looks of the Nissan GT-R than the Jaguar. I also don't get what's the big deal with the Aston Martins, seriously. The Bond movies and Top Gear have made what's a so-so looking car into somewhat of a hyped up phenomenon. It's big, clunky, never wins anything in world competitions. The Porsche 911 ate it for breakfast around a track, with much lesser BHP.

What's the big deal about looks really? It's not like the Jag is so jaw droppingly beautiful. It's an OK looking car with crap engineering. Doesn't deserve the extra money.

http://www.jaguar-addict.co.uk/acata...s-pictures.jpg

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog...._specv_opt.jpg

I think the GT-R looks awesome. Also, knowing that it's a ridiculously stonking fast, neck-breaking monster, adds to its appeal.

Regarding Top Gear itself, last night's episode was one of the dullest I've watched. The Jensen piece was pointless, Saint Bob was mildly amusing, Jean Alesi was wasted, and the demolition challenge was just boring.

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Originally Posted by Dave B

Regarding Top Gear itself, last night's episode was one of the dullest I've watched. The Jensen piece was pointless, Saint Bob was mildly amusing, Jean Alesi was wasted, and the demolition challenge was just boring.

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The Interceptors tv theme bit was hilarious, but it was only a tiny bit of the episode. Agree with you on the rest though.

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Originally Posted by Daniel

I don't think Jon has ever driven any of the things you've mentioned, probably too busy driving his 1.2 8v Grande Punto which is a Corsa with passion :p

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:laugh: :up:

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Originally Posted by CaptainRaiden

What's the big deal about looks really?

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'That's like asking what was so great about Marilyn Monroe. If you have to ask the question in the first place then you will never understand'

I don't understand the obsession with speed on road cars. Maybe my opinion will change when I own something with more power or have enough free time to do track days, and if I was buying a car with the intention of using it for track days I'd get a Caterham or Westfield. But when a modern 1.2 supermini is comfortable at 85mph on the outside lane of a motorway, a young expensive to insure driver can't justify the cost of a fast car.

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Originally Posted by Daniel

If that Jag didn't have a Jag badge on it I doubt most people would look twice.

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What do you think about the new Lancia Chryslers then? Looks like we'll be getting Lancias in the UK with a different name on them. I've always wanted a new Lancia but not sure I'd stretch that wish so far that I'd be prepared to buy one with a Chrysler badge on it...

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Originally Posted by Brown, Jon Brow

I don't understand the obsession with speed on road cars. Maybe my opinion will change when I own something with more power or have enough free time to do track days, and if I was buying a car with the intention of using it for track days I'd get a Caterham or Westfield. But when a modern 1.2 supermini is comfortable at 85mph on the outside lane of a motorway, a young expensive to insure driver can't justify the cost of a fast car.

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Personally I don't like the Skyline GTR either for the same reason, its way too fast.

Even if you head 'down' to BMW Z4 territory the cars are still way too fast to enjoy on the road safely.

Stick with classics, they'll give far more fun 90% of the time even when you're at or below the speed limits.

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Originally Posted by Brown, Jon Brow

'That's like asking what was so great about Marilyn Monroe. If you have to ask the question in the first place then you will never understand'

I don't understand the obsession with speed on road cars. Maybe my opinion will change when I own something with more power or have enough free time to do track days, and if I was buying a car with the intention of using it for track days I'd get a Caterham or Westfield. But when a modern 1.2 supermini is comfortable at 85mph on the outside lane of a motorway, a young expensive to insure driver can't justify the cost of a fast car.

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I have never found Marilyn Monroe "beautiful". She was a bimbo at best, a product of Hollywood propaganda, with next to no acting skills. I like other unconventional, non-mass-propagated beauties which have not won some pageant or I should like them because other people say so. Sure, if it's only superficial looks you're concerned with, then I won't bother with any of those two cars. There are much better looking cars in the market for much, much cheaper.

The discussion was about how can Jag justify that kind of price for giving that less, not about what you would choose as your everyday car. I don't think anybody on this forum is realistically looking to buy either of those cars. But if I was in the hypothetical situation of choosing one, I would choose the GT-R every time. I'll be shocked if after that TG episode, anyone would be a big enough sucker to buy the Jag for 30,000 GBP more. I'm not willing to pay more and get inferior machinery, just because of some "tingling" and "looks" that for some reason only the Brits find pretty.

As is the case with Monroe, and that Jaguar, beauty is only skin deep, and that doesn't interest me one bit.

Cars are like women. Some like them cheap, some expensive, some like vintage whereas others go for new models. Fat, thin, Single seaters or mpv's, European, Japanese, American or whatever.

Me, I like driving lots of different ones as often as possible :D

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Originally Posted by Dylan H

What do you think about the new Lancia Chryslers then? Looks like we'll be getting Lancias in the UK with a different name on them. I've always wanted a new Lancia but not sure I'd stretch that wish so far that I'd be prepared to buy one with a Chrysler badge on it...

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I like the Delta, the Ypsilon is OK, but apparently the interior is a bit cheap and, well the others are just rebadged Chryslers so for me would be a no go.