Should f1 run coupes?

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Originally Posted by Daniel

I'm slightly confused by the inability by why we're talking about canopies in regards to an accident which was probably not survivable in anything else other than a Panzer tank..... prevention is better than the cure.

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Which, no matter whether we're talking about canopies, the Wheldon accident or whatever, brings us back again to the point that the ultimate means of prevention is not to do a particular activity at all.

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Originally Posted by Malbec

In addition open wheel racing has traditionally been 'cleaner' than closed wheel racing because of the fear of wheel/wheel contact and the subsequent risk of injury and death. This contrast has become less obvious recently ironically due to improved safety and the resulting groundbreaking behaviour of drivers like Senna and Schumacher who would have paid with their lives for some of the stunts they pulled had they both raced 20 years earlier. Imagine what it would be like in the future if wheels are completely covered. Just compare NASCAR and Indy or BTCC and F3 to get an idea of how different the actual racing is once the risk of wheel/wheel contact is reduced substantially. Open wheel racing is called that for a reason, it defined the very nature of the sport which is why I have reservations about covering the wheels up too much.

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And the notion that the drivers involved in F1 would somehow steer clear of contact because of their superiority as drivers compared to the practitioners of NASCAR, the BTCC, etc can be thrown out of the window straight away. Behaviour would change.

I think there are crossed wires here. There are two main instances in which cars may become airborne through contact with another car. The first is interlocking wheels, where the rotation of the wheels on each car forces one to mount the other, resulting in lift off of the affected car (i.e. Kenny Brack and Ryan Briscoe). The second is where the closing rate of the car behind is so great that its chassis makes contact with the car in front, and the rearmost car is launched into the air.

I'm not overly keen on watching replays of Sunday's incident, but I'm fairly sure that Wheldon, Power and Mann were all airborne because they were effectively launched owing to their relatively high rate of closing. Bumpers around the rear wheels may not have helped much in this case. As I said above the best way to avoid mayhem like Sunday is to avoid a rules package that puts the cars in those circumstances in the first place.

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Originally Posted by Daniel

But we're not talking about canopies.

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B-b-b-b-but this IS the canopy thread, which you resurrected in response to the death of a driver in an open cockpit car.

Are you indecisive now, or just not sure?

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Originally Posted by Andrewmcm

I'm not overly keen on watching replays of Sunday's incident, but I'm fairly sure that Wheldon, Power and Mann were all airborne because they were effectively launched owing to their relatively high rate of closing. Bumpers around the rear wheels may not have helped much in this case. As I said above the best way to avoid mayhem like Sunday is to avoid a rules package that puts the cars in those circumstances in the first place.

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Couldn't agree more.

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Originally Posted by BDunnell

And the notion that the drivers involved in F1 would somehow steer clear of contact because of their superiority as drivers compared to the practitioners of NASCAR, the BTCC, etc can be thrown out of the window straight away. Behaviour would change.

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Agreed, but you must factor in the amount of rookies/inexperienced pilots, the sheer volume of cars on the track, the speeds and the fact that one guy was racing through the pack with the carrot of $5m dangling in front if he won.................(vis a vis the race that claimed Dan I mean)

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Originally Posted by SGWilko

Agreed, but you must factor in the amount of rookies/inexperienced pilots, the sheer volume of cars on the track, the speeds and the fact that one guy was racing through the pack with the carrot of $5m dangling in front if he won.................(vis a vis the race that claimed Dan I mean)

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The last point I believe to be irrelevant in these circumstances. I agree very much with the sentiments of Andrewmcm's last post.

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Originally Posted by Daniel

Whilst the TT is massively dangerous, I think it's fairly safe to say that just about everything that can reasonably be done to keep the rides and spectators safe is being done.

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This statement is simply not true.

Pretty much nothing has been done to make the TT safer apart from moving spectators back a bit in certain areas and improving marshalling and medical access. Any active improvement has been the result of advances in motorbike design in general.

If you want to see how road circuits can be made safer take a look at La Sarthe or Spa, both of which have been in use for a similar period as the IoM course. Both had dedicated run off areas built and in Spa's case the course length was butchered to give a shorter track with vastly improved safety features. They've done nothing like it in the IoM.

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Originally Posted by BDunnell

Which, no matter whether we're talking about canopies, the Wheldon accident or whatever, brings us back again to the point that the ultimate means of prevention is not to do a particular activity at all.

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It really is a pity that such an intelligent person as yourself posts crap like this.

So how does your "advice" seek to make motorsport any safer? Oh wait.... it doesn't :dozey:

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Originally Posted by Malbec

This statement is simply not true.

Pretty much nothing has been done to make the TT safer apart from moving spectators back a bit in certain areas and improving marshalling and medical access. Any active improvement has been the result of advances in motorbike design in general.

If you want to see how road circuits can be made safer take a look at La Sarthe or Spa, both of which have been in use for a similar period as the IoM course. Both had dedicated run off areas built and in Spa's case the course length was butchered to give a shorter track with vastly improved safety features. They've done nothing like it in the IoM.

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Did you not notice crash barriers in certain areas which are a bit more forgiving than stone walls? There are now people with flags in most of the danger spots and the race pretty much gets cancelled if there are more than a few drops of water on the road.