Team orders at Ferrari

The article is about Massa and 3* teamorders. the thing is that I´m not god at the german language.

http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/f...s-1948929.html

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Originally Posted by eu

It's all interesting but this is not a court of law...far from it. If they appeal they have a very good chance to get a bigger penalty. It's quite common not to appeal anything in f1.

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I think you will find that the Stewards slapped them with the Maximum fine they could and also referred them to the WMSC.

If they wanted to appeal the fine, they couldn't do any worse.

BTW, did you write that you hadn't seen the race. That would answer a few questions, especially as you state that both drivers acted normally after the race. Nothing could be further from the truth!!!

I think people are missing the point here. There is a major difference between a hint and an order. Massa was never ordered to do anything.

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Originally Posted by 555-04Q2

I think people are missing the point here. There is a major difference between a hint and an order. Massa was never ordered to do anything.

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By the same token, do you seriously think that Rob Smedley's words - delivered so deliberately and carefully - were merely a "hint"?

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Originally Posted by Dave Brockman

By the same token, do you seriously think that Rob Smedley's words - delivered so deliberately and carefully - were merely a "hint"?

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Yes. No one could jump into the cockit of Massa's car mid rance and force him let Alonso past. Only Massa could make that decision in the end. Massa moved over for Alonso of his own choice, not Smedley's.

I guess you and I have different understandings of what constitutes a "hint" as opposed to a flimsily disguised order. You cannot be that naive, surely, to think that Massa got out of the way through pure generosity to Alonso, sacrificing a win and in the process sending out a clear message that he'd given up on the drivers' championship.

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Originally Posted by Hawkmoon

The thing that makes motorsport unusual, if not unique, is that the team is effectively competing against itself. In no other sport does one half of the team compete against the other half.

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Cycle racing. They compete as teams but the races results are counted for the individual riders. It's not uncommon in some teams to have two riders capable of winning overall or in a sprint. But then you have other riders in the team who's sole job it is to support the main riders.

Team orders are not only allowed but are a critical element of the strategy of getting their preferred rider to the finish first.

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Originally Posted by Dave Brockman

I guess you and I have different understandings of what constitutes a "hint" as opposed to a flimsily disguised order. You cannot be that naive, surely, to think that Massa got out of the way through pure generosity to Alonso, sacrificing a win and in the process sending out a clear message that he'd given up on the drivers' championship.

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We both know that Massa moved over because he felt he had too. However, no one said Massa you have to move over or else...this is an order. They dropped a hint and he made up his own mind what to do about it.

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Originally Posted by Mark

Cycle racing. They compete as teams but the races results are counted for the individual riders. It's not uncommon in some teams to have two riders capable of winning overall or in a sprint. But then you have other riders in the team who's sole job it is to support the main riders.

Team orders are not only allowed but are a critical element of the strategy of getting their preferred rider to the finish first.

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I have to confess a certain ignorance when it comes to cycle racing as I find it about as enjoyable as having my testicles slammed in a drawer.

Nobody seems to get their panties in a bunch when team orders are used however.

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Originally Posted by Hawkmoon

Nobody seems to get their panties in a bunch when team orders are used however.

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Does cycling have a specific rule which clearly states that orders team orders which interfere with a race result are prohibited?

I repeat - and I'm a little tired of repeating it - there is certainly a debate to be had whether the rule needs clarifying or abolishing; there are many posts here sympathetic to the idea that team orders are part and parcel of the sport. But the point remains that Ferrari signed up for the 2010 season knowing full well such orders were prohibited, then chose to break the rules.