Top Gear!

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Originally Posted by Robinho

It appears that McLaren took the criticism of Clarkson on Top Gear, as well as those from EVO, Autocar and various other reviews rather more seriously and have made several changes to the cars actually going on sale, including a louder induction noise under heavy acceleration, light movement on the gear change paddles and an improved feel on turn in. It appears that they are very much realising that if they want this car to be the equal or better of the Ferrari 458, which is being touted as the benchmark they do need to improve certain areas. I have no doubts the McLaren was a lready a stunning car, but it might already be a little bit better as a result of the reviews that you so quickly derided, including Clarkson's

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That's fine with me as long as they don't make the car's handling worse than before, just so that some people can get "thrills" from the back stepping out in corners. IMO if a car handles as perfectly as the new Mclaren, people really shouldn't complain. They should be happy that because of high level engineering they're now able to make a car which is just a precision beast. I don't find anything wrong with the looks either. Call me weird, but I prefer the look of the Mclaren than the IMO ugly Ferrari 458, especially its front arrangement.

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Originally Posted by CaptainRaiden

That's fine with me as long as they don't make the car's handling worse than before, just so that some people can get "thrills" from the back stepping out in corners. IMO if a car handles as perfectly as the new Mclaren, people really shouldn't complain. They should be happy that because of high level engineering they're now able to make a car which is just a precision beast. I don't find anything wrong with the looks either. Call me weird, but I prefer the look of the Mclaren than the IMO ugly Ferrari 458, especially its front arrangement.

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i believe the issue with the handling, that i read anyway, was the lack of feeling on turn in which in turn left the driver with a lack of confidence that the car was doing what the inputs requested, rather than providing an edgy handling car. It was roundly praised for its cornering ability and ride and in turn the speed it could hold in a long corner, but the initial turn in was what was raised and has apparently been addressed. Therefore it didn't handle perfectly, and the changes should take it up to a level where the 458 currently rules, which again has been proclaimed as one of the best handling cars ever.

and personally speaking i don't think i have a favourite, it changes from day to day, they are both exceptional, both fantastic looking in their own ways and I'll probably never drive let alone own either

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Originally Posted by Robinho

i believe the issue with the handling, that i read anyway, was the lack of feeling on turn in which in turn left the driver with a lack of confidence that the car was doing what the inputs requested, rather than providing an edgy handling car. It was roundly praised for its cornering ability and ride and in turn the speed it could hold in a long corner, but the initial turn in was what was raised and has apparently been addressed. Therefore it didn't handle perfectly, and the changes should take it up to a level where the 458 currently rules, which again has been proclaimed as one of the best handling cars ever.

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I'm guessing Top Gear's track is a power track and that's why the Mclaren smoked the Ferrari 458 there. But then the car that topped the time-sheets, Ariel Atom, is almost a formula based car with massive downforce compared to the Mclaren and the Veyron, so that means handling is also a big factor there. Is there a lap time comparison between these two cars at a track which favors handling? I'm guessing the Mclaren is the better handling of the two, but they prefer the Ferrari for its better feel, not really better handling.

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Originally Posted by Robinho

and personally speaking i don't think i have a favourite, it changes from day to day, they are both exceptional, both fantastic looking in their own ways and I'll probably never drive let alone own either

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Well, ain't that the truth. I love the new Mclaren, but probably would never be able to buy it. And actually my dream car would be a Nissan GTR with performance upgrades, so it handles just like the Mclaren and goes like the Veyron. :D *Daydreaming* Buy it for 70,000 pounds, and then put 30,000 pounds worth of upgrades, and have an absolute beast on your hands. *Daydreaming*

Well, looked like a Rat was screaming round the track today. Hope he gets a bit more forward momentum rather than sideways on his fastest lap. Also a bit of fun with a F1.

EVO timed the Ferrari and McLaren round the Bedford Autodrome, which has a pretty good mix of handling and power, on a flying lap, and the Ferrari was just 1 sec quicker, although with more track biased tyres the McLaren cut that to something like 3 tenths. In the latest issue they reckon the changes would make some of the difference up, so in reality there is next to nothing between them in standard form round a track. Also worth bearing in mind that the Top Gear lap is taken from a standing start, which has a large bearing, even including the Atom, which is the quickest accelerating car going really

Excellent racing feature tonight.

want that Lotus, if i had £650k spare and my own race track I'd be all over one of them

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Originally Posted by Robinho

want that Lotus, if i had £650k spare and my own race track I'd be all over one of them

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Do you actually own the car though? I was under the impression it was merely a service.

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Originally Posted by Daniel

There are still people like Jon who want something like a Jag which isn't as good as the opposition ;)

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I don't really care how fast a car is around the Top Gear test track. I don't give a **** if the GTR can go round the Follow-Through at 92mph and the Jag can only do it at 88mph. It's irrelevant.

I will never spend my own money on a car that looks like a dogs dinner, such at the GTR. No matter how fast it can take the Follow-Through. The Nissan is just a car that science designed, and that just doesn't excite me at all. As for the price issue, I said earlier, I'd still prefer a standard XKR at the same price as the GTR.

Cars aren't a product like a fridge or a lawn mower that you buy just with your head. You buy cars just as much with your heart. So I don't care if I end up with something that is technically inferior. I don't plan to ever own a Japanese car, but hopefully I'll own plenty of 'hopeless' Jags and Alfa's. :)

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Originally Posted by Brown, Jon Brow

You buy cars just as much with your heart. So I don't care if I end up with something that is technically inferior. I don't plan to ever own a Japanese car, but hopefully I'll own plenty of 'hopeless' Jags and Alfa's. :)

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I think thats a little unfair on Japanese cars.

Ever thrashed a Honda Type R Integra with a hand finished engine to an inch of its 8700 redline? Felt its tail step out in a way no European maker dared to do back in the late 90s?

How about a smooth rotary engine coupe that feels more like a turbine to drive matched to a well handling RWD chassis.

Or a thrummy torquey flat four ahead of you with a rally-bred chassis?

None of those cars I describe lack character or passion.

Jaguars do nothing for me, nor do Astons. Why not? Because they're all modular constructions spun off the same platform designed and built with a bottom line at heart and a market niche to fill. Each designed specifically not to take sales away from the models above and below. Nothing there for the heart I'm afraid.

Now Alfa? Guilty of platform sharing and everything I criticise Aston and Jaguar for without the build quality but... I still want one. Lancia too.