Mobile phones & tablets thread

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Originally Posted by donKey jote

can anybody (captain?) tell me the difference beween the SIII and the SIII LTE ?
Apart from the colour :)

Is it worth getting an LTE even though I won't be using the LTE bit for the time being? :cornfused:

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This article should help you out a lot donks: Samsung Galaxy S3 4G Version Includes Drastic Changes; Is it Still Worthy to Buy the Smartphone? - International Business Times

So, in short, double the RAM, comes pre-loaded with the latest Android OS (4.1 Jelly Bean: You don't have to wait on the older Galaxy S3 for the update to roll out in your country, which could take another month or so).

Higher battery consumption when in LTE range, but LTE anyway is a battery hog. This can be remedied though in the future with a minor software update. Galaxy S3 has one of the best batteries in the market right now anyway, so it won't be lagging behind other phones by that much.

IMO if you would be changing phones over the next two years anyway, and LTE is of no use to you, then there's no point. Effective global 4G LTE deployment is still quite not there yet. But if the cost difference is not much, and you want your handset to be future proof, then I'd say go for it.

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Originally Posted by BleAivano

yes. For android there are several srt compatible media players. Most likely the same goes for ios tablets.

Top 5 Video Player apps for Android Mobile Phone and Tablet in 2011 - Android Circle
http://pinappu.hubpages.com/hub/10-B...-for-Free-2012
Choosing the Best Video Player for Your Device | Android.AppStorm

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Do they have auto-bookmark function? It's a must have when I use media player programs.

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Originally Posted by wedge

Do they have auto-bookmark function? It's a must have when I use media player programs.

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I don't know, i haven't used them.

http://i.imgur.com/YlUYZ.gif

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Originally Posted by edv

http://i.imgur.com/YlUYZ.gif

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:laugh:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=llyq-zyE-wU

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Originally Posted by CaptainRaiden

This article should help you out a lot donks: Samsung Galaxy S3 4G Version Includes Drastic Changes; Is it Still Worthy to Buy the Smartphone? - International Business Times

So, in short, double the RAM, comes pre-loaded with the latest Android OS (4.1 Jelly Bean: You don't have to wait on the older Galaxy S3 for the update to roll out in your country, which could take another month or so).

Higher battery consumption when in LTE range, but LTE anyway is a battery hog. This can be remedied though in the future with a minor software update. Galaxy S3 has one of the best batteries in the market right now anyway, so it won't be lagging behind other phones by that much.

IMO if you would be changing phones over the next two years anyway, and LTE is of no use to you, then there's no point. Effective global 4G LTE deployment is still quite not there yet. But if the cost difference is not much, and you want your handset to be future proof, then I'd say go for it.

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Thanks :up:

Turns out I like grey better and that's the LTE :p

oh and it was of course for the same price as the non-LTE :)

Now I'm also thinking about an iPad on top. :arrows:

(Just discovered we get company rates, after all these years with a donkey handset) :dozey:

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Originally Posted by Dave B

Many keyboards have a "Swipe" mode which can vastly speed up your input as you don't have to lift your finger between letters. Maybe, ioan, you could trial these.

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Thanks for the useful idea Dave, this being a company phone it has to be a BB and I certainly won't buy a phone for work from my pocket. When the 9900 will be repaired it will be business as usual.
It seems that others are doing fine with small touchscreen keypads, while I really can't get to grips with them, the bigger ones are fine, so my next personal phone will most probably be a Samsung Note2, with enough space for my bulky fingers! ;)

Too big to be a mobile. And too small and too expensive to be a proper tablet.

Asus Padfone 2 review | Phone Reviews | TechRadar

Now this is really interesting. A quad core, 2 GB RAM, 720p screen powerhouse of an Android phone with LTE and NFC capability, once docked into the tablet, will work as a tablet, using both batteries for a stand-by time for up to six weeks.

Definitely great innovation, and while it may not be perfect now, it has a great future. What's more, it's somewhere around the price range of current flagship smartphones, which is great value for money.

http://cdn4.mos.techradar.futurecdn....564-900-90.JPG

http://cdn1.mos.techradar.futurecdn....558-900-90.JPG

http://cdn3.mos.techradar.futurecdn....n11-900-90.jpg

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Originally Posted by CaptainRaiden

Asus Padfone 2 review | Phone Reviews | TechRadar

Now this is really interesting. A quad core, 2 GB RAM, 720p screen powerhouse of an Android phone with LTE and NFC capability, once docked into the tablet, will work as a tablet, using both batteries for a stand-by time for up to six weeks.

Definitely great innovation, and while it may not be perfect now, it has a great future. What's more, it's somewhere around the price range of current flagship smartphones, which is great value for money.

http://cdn4.mos.techradar.futurecdn....564-900-90.JPG

http://cdn1.mos.techradar.futurecdn....558-900-90.JPG

http://cdn3.mos.techradar.futurecdn....n11-900-90.jpg

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I'm not quite sure what to make of them. Personally I'm leaning more towards getting myself a tablet that doubles as a laptop and can be used as a desktop replacement. I'll still keep my desktop for gaming but I do miss having a computer when I'm away so a laptop is something I've wanted for a while and getting one that doubles as a tablet and is powerful enough to replace my desktop for everyday stuff is a bonus.


http://www.winsupersite.com/article/...parison-144545

If Microsoft make a dock for the surface pro then I will buy one, if not then I'll see what HP, Lenovo etc etc come up with :)

I should also mention as well that I feel that Apple's launching of an iPad mini on the 23rd of October (3 days before Windows 8 and surface launch) shows that they're actually scared of Surface and Windows 8.

With the Surface RT you get Office as part of the deal and you can even have a proper keyboard and mouse because it's got those crazy things called USB ports. So rather than an iPad device which is geared towards consuming content, you have a device which you could use to create content.

It's going to be an interesting month :)

And an interesting Christmas market I would think.

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Originally Posted by Daniel

I should also mention as well that I feel that Apple's launching of an iPad mini on the 23rd of October (3 days before Windows 8 and surface launch) shows that they're actually scared of Surface and Windows 8.

With the Surface RT you get Office as part of the deal and you can even have a proper keyboard and mouse because it's got those crazy things called USB ports. So rather than an iPad device which is geared towards consuming content, you have a device which you could use to create content.

It's going to be an interesting month :)

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It also have Bluetooth so you can connect wireless Bluetooth keyboards and mouses.

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Originally Posted by BleAivano

It also have Bluetooth so you can connect wireless Bluetooth keyboards and mouses.

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That too of course :) If Microsoft get Surface right (and I doubt they will, because they just don't market things hard enough) then they have the potential to start stealing iPad sales.

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Originally Posted by Daniel

I'm not quite sure what to make of them.

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IMO it's quite neat. Asus also has keyboard docks for the tablet. So, the smartphone turns into a tablet turns into a laptop. It's certainly powerful enough with a 1.6 Ghz quad core processor and 2GB RAM. Plus the keyboard dock comes with its own battery which further extends the standby and talk time. The phone also has a bonkers 13 megapixel camera. The hardware definitely isn't lacking on any front. At around 500 pounds, it is a bit steep, but you get a top of the line smartphone and a tablet.

ASUS is not a seasoned player in this field, so the quality factor is an unknown. Most probably they have patented this invention as a result of Apple's douchebaggery, and so none of the major players can have a proper go with their own interpretation at this idea.

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Originally Posted by Daniel

Personally I'm leaning more towards getting myself a tablet that doubles as a laptop and can be used as a desktop replacement. I'll still keep my desktop for gaming but I do miss having a computer when I'm away so a laptop is something I've wanted for a while and getting one that doubles as a tablet and is powerful enough to replace my desktop for everyday stuff is a bonus.

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I was actually looking at the Surface Pro, but as it stands, my one and a half year old Dell Inspiron is more powerful than any tablet out in the market right now. Touch screen and touch controls aren't really necessary for my line of work, so work wise it's of no importance to me. I'm definitely not gonna spend $600 on a tablet to sit on the couch and swipe through Facebook and a bunch of PDF magazines.

Tablets available right now are still not there yet to replace a proper desktop or laptop workstation. Then again, the Surface Pro comes quite close, but it's still not there yet.

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Originally Posted by Daniel

With the Surface RT you get Office as part of the deal and you can even have a proper keyboard and mouse because it's got those crazy things called USB ports. So rather than an iPad device which is geared towards consuming content, you have a device which you could use to create content.

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LOL, don't be silly Daniel. It's 2012. Who needs USB ports? :eek:

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Originally Posted by CaptainRaiden

IMO it's quite neat. Asus also has keyboard docks for the tablet. So, the smartphone turns into a tablet turns into a laptop. It's certainly powerful enough with a 1.6 Ghz quad core processor and 2GB RAM. Plus the keyboard dock comes with its own battery which further extends the standby and talk time. The phone also has a bonkers 13 megapixel camera. The hardware definitely isn't lacking on any front. At around 500 pounds, it is a bit steep, but you get a top of the line smartphone and a tablet.

ASUS is not a seasoned player in this field, so the quality factor is an unknown. Most probably they have patented this invention as a result of Apple's douchebaggery, and so none of the major players can have a proper go with their own interpretation at this idea.




I was actually looking at the Surface Pro, but as it stands, my one and a half year old Dell Inspiron is more powerful than any tablet out in the market right now. Touch screen and touch controls aren't really necessary for my line of work, so work wise it's of no importance to me. I'm definitely not gonna spend $600 on a tablet to sit on the couch and swipe through Facebook and a bunch of PDF magazines.

Tablets available right now are still not there yet to replace a proper desktop or laptop workstation. Then again, the Surface Pro comes quite close, but it's still not there yet.

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The problem for me is that the Padphone is running an ARM processor rather than an x86 architecture one. So is it really going to be able to fill in for a desktop and laptop for everything but gaming? I don't think so. But it's a neat idea nonetheless.

The surface pro is not meant to replace a desktop for the really powerful stuff though, but I think it strikes a good balance between being a tablet and being able to do 90% of the stuff most will do with a desktop :)

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Originally Posted by CaptainRaiden

LOL, don't be silly Daniel. It's 2012. Who needs USB ports? :eek:

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True, we could just pair accessories with NFC.... oh wait! :p

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Originally Posted by henners88

I think the market has become so busy with so many manufacturers now trying to innovate beyond their competitors to get that edge, that the gap between tablet and laptop is beginning to be bridged. Whether it needed to be done is down to personal opinion of course.

The smartphone come tablet example above is very innovative indeed and is another avenue where the quest for bigger screens has taken off. Why buy a Samsung Galaxy Note 2 when you can buy a small easy-to-carry phone that slots into a tablet style screen? Its all going bonkers but I would imagine its cheaper than having a smartphone and tablet that are bought independently. Its all very interesting to watch and makes you wonder what is next :)

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the other big thing is the OS's. Whilst iOS works well as a touchscreen OS, it's not really meant to be used with a keyboard and a mouse and the opposite is true of OSX.

Whilst a lot of people hate the Jekyll and Hyde approach of W8, I'm using it right now and the desktop mode is as near as makes no difference to Windows 7 which is how it should be. I can't really comment on how it works with a tablet as I've not tried it yet, but if it's anything like WP7 then it'll be fantastic.

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Originally Posted by Daniel

The problem for me is that the Padphone is running an ARM processor rather than an x86 architecture one. So is it really going to be able to fill in for a desktop and laptop for everything but gaming? I don't think so. But it's a neat idea nonetheless.

The surface pro is not meant to replace a desktop for the really powerful stuff though, but I think it strikes a good balance between being a tablet and being able to do 90% of the stuff most will do with a desktop :)

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Agreed that the Padfone can only do the most basic stuff, but to be honest, and like you have mentioned already, even the Surface Pro can't match a proper desktop in terms of heavy duty rendering, modeling or designing either. It will fall short in playing major PC games at their full capacity too (lack of a discrete GPU). It would still blow the current iPad or any of the Android tablets in the market, out of the water in terms of performance.

Once launched, it will be the best tablet money can buy, no doubt about it. Its biggest strength is the bang-for-the-buck it offers for its portability, which will be very helpful for a lot of people. Still it would have to do a lot more to sway me away from spending the same money on a gaming laptop. :p IMO it's not there yet, but getting there. Maybe the next iteration is better.

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Originally Posted by henners88

To be honest I hope iOS remains as a mobile operating system and doesn't go down the road of trying to adapt for keyboards and a mouse. I personally don't think that is what it is for and or what it was ever designed to do. There is evidently a market for people who want a tablet to morph into a laptop, but there are also consumers who buy a tablet simply to be a tablet. A convenient portable device to use away from their other computer alternatives. Microsoft and similar are bridging the gap between laptop and tablet and the demand is growing, but Apple have attacked the market in a very different way. Some of you may say that Apple will be left behind by now not following this trend, but I think if there comes a time where Apple need to follow in a market they dominated from the start, they will look to something very different. It seems to be the way it works. :)

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That's the beauty of Windows 8 :) It should be able to do both properly :)

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Originally Posted by CaptainRaiden

Agreed that the Padfone can only do the most basic stuff, but to be honest, and like you have mentioned already, even the Surface Pro can't match a proper desktop in terms of heavy duty rendering, modeling or designing either. It will fall short in playing major PC games at their full capacity too (lack of a discrete GPU). It would still blow the current iPad or any of the Android tablets in the market, out of the water in terms of performance.

Once launched, it will be the best tablet money can buy, no doubt about it. Its biggest strength is the bang-for-the-buck it offers for its portability, which will be very helpful for a lot of people. Still it would have to do a lot more to sway me away from spending the same money on a gaming laptop. :p IMO it's not there yet, but getting there. Maybe the next iteration is better.

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I guess it all depends what sort of devices you want to own :) For me a gaming laptop is a no-no. If I'm going to have something portable I want it to be relatively light and gaming laptops are a nightmare in terms of heat. My gaming machine is rocking a Sandy Bridge Core i5 2500k a 4850 or 4870 (can't remember which!) graphics card, a 120gb Corsair Force GT SSD and 8 gig of RAM. It's pretty pokey although it could use a new graphics card if I'm honest. I'm going to do a bit of gaming this afternoon to stretch her legs a little :D I've just removed the protective plastic covering from my P183 today after about 20 months of ownership :p

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Originally Posted by CaptainRaiden

ASUS is not a seasoned player in this field, so the quality factor is an unknown. Most probably they have patented this invention as a result of Apple's douchebaggery, and so none of the major players can have a proper go with their own interpretation at this idea.

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I like the ASUS design a lot as it may be just what I'm looking for. Its expensive and would be at the same level as the most expensive iPhone, substantially more than other top end phones though. I'd have to wait until a few hands on reviews before plumping for it.

As for the patents I realise you don't understand how the system works which is why you probably resent the Apple court case so much. The system is not there to allow monopolies to develop and flourish but has to strike a balance between encouraging different solutions to a problem to exist while protecting intellectual property.

You posted links to Motorola's flipphone in another thread and claimed they should have patented their idea. They did.

However they cannot patent the idea of a folding phone which is too broad a stroke. They have to specify in detail what that entails, how it would open/close and what functions the relative parts perform. IIRC Motorola flipphones had the battery and keypad in one section while the other section contained all the electronics, that would have been specified in their patent. Other manufacturers were free to develop flipphones as long as they did not infringe Motorola's specific patents and I don't believe any other manufacturer introduced a phone that had the functions split across the phone the way Motorola's did. Some only had a microphone in the folding part of the phone, others didn't even have that and just had a plastic keypad cover that folded out. They are still flipphones but didn't infringe Motorola's specific patent.

Therefore ASUS can patent their particular cariety of a machine that splits up into a phone and tablet but they cannot patent the whole idea of a phone/tablet system. Other makers can come up with their variations on that theme as long as they don't infringe upon ASUS' specific patent.

I hope that helps.

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Originally Posted by Malbec

I like the ASUS design a lot as it may be just what I'm looking for. Its expensive and would be at the same level as the most expensive iPhone, substantially more than other top end phones though. I'd have to wait until a few hands on reviews before plumping for it.

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ASUS make decent hardware. I like their motherboards and GPUs. Their laptops also seem to be solidly built. Android will take care of the software part as far as the phone and tablet go. After sales service is where they might be lacking initially, but that can be ramped up.

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Originally Posted by Malbec

As for the patents I realise you don't understand how the system works which is why you probably resent the Apple court case so much. The system is not there to allow monopolies to develop and flourish but has to strike a balance between encouraging different solutions to a problem to exist while protecting intellectual property.

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I'll admit first off that my knowledge of the patent process is lacking. But wasn't one of Apple's patent rounded corners of a device, for which they sued Samsung for? Didn't Apple win the case only in US, and not anywhere else? Aren't Apple's revenues a small, but important part of the American economy?

The reason I put the Motorola link in the other thread was because IMO Motorola could have patented the flip phone design entirely. I mean they invented it, who stops them? There have been hundreds of innovations in the world of electronics over the past two decades. I mean all flat screen TVs look the same, several phone companies copied Motorola, Nokia, Samsung and Sony Ericsson designs by the dozen throughout the 90s and 2000s. But no one was as anal as Apple about the overall look of a device, the exact cm, radii etc. The ridiculousness of the lawsuit is proven by Apple's victory only in the US, Apple's backyard. You can't tell me the rest of the world's judicial system is not as good as that of the USA.

What this has done is opened up a whole new pandora's box where companies have now realized that they can sue willy-nilly and stifle the competition, proof being since the Apple Samsung battle, smartphone lawsuits have ramped up with Nokia suing HTC, LG suing Apple, and now Motorola and Samsung suing Apple.

Motorola

Samsung sues Apple over iPhone 5 - Telegraph

Earlier at least you could have similar looking gadgets with a different OS and different characteristics, not anymore. I'm not saying a company isn't allowed to protect their IP or patents they worked so hard on refining. Hell, sue everyone if they're blatantly copying. Hardware or software similarity have always existed in the phone industry. But lawsuits for such petty issues as rounded corners leave a bad taste in the mouth.

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Originally Posted by CaptainRaiden

I'll admit first off that my knowledge of the patent process is lacking. But wasn't one of Apple's patent rounded corners of a device, for which they sued Samsung for? Didn't Apple win the case only in US, and not anywhere else?

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There are two legal issues here. I think you're confusing the two.

One is patent protection. The other is brand identity protection. Those are not the formal legal words which I've forgotten but I'm sure someone will let you know what they are.

Apple didn't patent the angles of their corners, patents are to do with technology IIRC. Apple argued that Samsung were copying the look and feel of their iPhone and were therefore infringing upon their brand.

Take a look at similar cases like Starbucks:

Michael Atkins - Seattle Trademark Lawyer - Chinese Official Explains How His Court Calculated Infringement*Damages

You could reduce this case to Starbucks having a monopoly on green and black circular logos with white lettering too, doesn't that sound really trivial of Starbucks?

Or how about this?

BMW loses court battle to chinese X5 clone

BMW getting petty about some Chinese car maker using four circular headlamps, a Hoffmeister kink and kidney grilles. What are the Germans playing at?

Or can you see the other side? That a manufacturer who builds up a brand and a design language may want to protect that brand and look? And that a banal description of that look may look pathetic to you (its all about the angles of the corners and buttons after all) but may be of great commercial value to the victor?

What you seem to be suggesting to me is that its absolutely fine for one company to copy the look and feel of another company's products instead of forging ahead with its own brand design. I don't agree.

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Originally Posted by CaptainRaiden

The reason I put the Motorola link in the other thread was because IMO Motorola could have patented the flip phone design entirely. I mean they invented it, who stops them?

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No, Motorola couldn't. The patent system stops them as I tried to explain earlier.

The patenting system isn't there to crush competition. If Motorola was allowed to patent phones that fold as a whole idea then noone else would be able to make anything similar or they'd have to pay fees. This would promote a monopoly, therefore the patenting system is designed to stop this from happening.

As I explained Motorola would have had to go into tremendous detail in their patent regarding how the phone folded and what was on either side of the hinge. That is why I mentioned that Motorola phones had the battery and keypad on one half and the gubbins and earpiece on the other, because thats what they would have patented. Other phone makers could sidestep the patent by having different flip devices, hence why other makers only had mics in the flip part or even just a plastic flap with no other function.

If you designed a time machine you would have to explain exactly what mechanism you use for it to do its job. You cannot patent the idea of a time machine itself. If I then develop and market another time machine you must prove that my device uses the exact same mechanism as yours or was derived from it to prove I infringed your patent.

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Originally Posted by CaptainRaiden

There have been hundreds of innovations in the world of electronics over the past two decades. I mean all flat screen TVs look the same, several phone companies copied Motorola, Nokia, Samsung and Sony Ericsson designs by the dozen throughout the 90s and 2000s. But no one was as anal as Apple about the overall look of a device, the exact cm, radii etc. The ridiculousness of the lawsuit is proven by Apple's victory only in the US, Apple's backyard. You can't tell me the rest of the world's judicial system is not as good as that of the USA.

What this has done is opened up a whole new pandora's box where companies have now realized that they can sue willy-nilly and stifle the competition, proof being since the Apple Samsung battle, smartphone lawsuits have ramped up with Nokia suing HTC, LG suing Apple, and now Motorola and Samsung suing Apple.

Motorola

Samsung sues Apple over iPhone 5 - Telegraph

Earlier at least you could have similar looking gadgets with a different OS and different characteristics, not anymore. I'm not saying a company isn't allowed to protect their IP or patents they worked so hard on refining. Hell, sue everyone if they're blatantly copying. Hardware or software similarity have always existed in the phone industry. But lawsuits for such petty issues as rounded corners leave a bad taste in the mouth.

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Are you really trying to tell me that electronics companies didn't sue each other before Apple came along with this lawsuit? Really? Frankly that you believe that beggars belief. Maybe you should pay more attention to the finance pages because firstly what Apple did is nothing in terms of inter-corporate legal suits and secondly they are very very far from being the first company to be engaged in this kind of behaviour. Maybe you should read a bit about Microsoft's history for example.

At the end of the day, I could care less about who wins the legal battles. Not really interested in what happens in the courtrooms.

What I want is a gadget which has the best of both worlds. If I don't like Apple's walled garden treatment, I shouldn't be forced to buy their products. Neither should features in my phone be blocked or removed. Mobile phone and smartphone features have long been filtered and trickled down into various different devices from different manufacturers. Never were devices banned or stupid things like phone unlocking pattern asked to be removed. Yes, there were minor lawsuits, but never this sudden anal control-freakery as what Apple did when they sued Samsung. They obviously felt threatened by Samsung's rise as their main competitor, and then chose the legal route. Why else would they wait two years?

When companies start to patent innovation, that's one step towards monopoly, especially ignoring the fact that their own OS copied many elements and was originally inspired by Palm OS.

Isn't it weird that Apple only won in their backyard, the USA, amidst allegations of mishandling of evidence? Doesn't it strike you as a weird coincidence? They lost everywhere else. A UK judge even ordered Apple, hilariously, to post on their website that Samsung didn't copy them.

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Originally Posted by Daniel

I guess it all depends what sort of devices you want to own :) For me a gaming laptop is a no-no. If I'm going to have something portable I want it to be relatively light and gaming laptops are a nightmare in terms of heat. My gaming machine is rocking a Sandy Bridge Core i5 2500k a 4850 or 4870 (can't remember which!) graphics card, a 120gb Corsair Force GT SSD and 8 gig of RAM. It's pretty pokey although it could use a new graphics card if I'm honest.

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That's a sweet setup. I built a gaming PC in 2009 with a Core 2 Quad 2.6 Ghz CPU, 4 gig of RAM, Radeon 4870 (same card!) and a basic 1 TB 7200 RPM HDD. A year later added an ASUS Xonar DX 7.1. The old boy still plays all the latest games at high quality, thanks to most of them being console ports I guess. I'm sure I'll have to upgrade once the next gen consoles come in next year, because that's when the gaming world will be ramping up the quality.

My gaming laptop doesn't really give me any trouble with heat, but that's because I'm living in a cold area ATM. When I travel to hotter places, I make sure to have a cooler with me. The side vent does throw up devil's breath sometimes during heavy gaming.

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Originally Posted by Daniel

I'm going to do a bit of gaming this afternoon to stretch her legs a little :D I've just removed the protective plastic covering from my P183 today after about 20 months of ownership :p

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Happy gaming!

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Originally Posted by CaptainRaiden

At the end of the day, I could care less about who wins the legal battles. Not really interested in what happens in the courtrooms.

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I suggest if you don't want to try and understand the process you cease commenting on them. That way you'll stop looking silly.

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Originally Posted by CaptainRaiden

What I want is a gadget which has the best of both worlds. If I don't like Apple's walled garden treatment, I shouldn't be forced to buy their products. Neither should features in my phone be blocked or removed.

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I agree except where features are deemed to have been copied. I don't see why its deemed acceptable by you that because you don't like one company it should be ok for others to try and copy them.

I don't like many features of Apple's behaviour but I believe their competitors should beat them by making a better and different product, not a clone. That way I get a variety of products to choose from and not just Apple and Apple-lite.

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Originally Posted by CaptainRaiden

Yes, there were minor lawsuits, but never this sudden anal control-freakery as what Apple did when they sued Samsung. They obviously felt threatened by Samsung's rise as their main competitor, and then chose the legal route. Why else would they wait two years?

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The previous cases were only minor because the court judgements affected smaller markets or were less decisive. What the companies were asking for though (Apple included but certainly not exclusively) was always the banning of rival products or major changes to their function.

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Originally Posted by CaptainRaiden

When companies start to patent innovation, that's one step towards monopoly,

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Sorry CR but this is awful. You can't write rubbish like this and be taken seriously.

Patenting exists to protect innovation. Its there to allow people and companies to invest in new technologies safe in the knowledge that their investment can be recouped in the future (if successful) without others copying them and cashing in without cost.

Its also designed not to be restrictive enough to prevent rivals from coming up with similar solutions as long as they are not copied. Its a difficult balance but its there to promote innovation and competition.

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Originally Posted by Malbec

I suggest if you don't want to try and understand the process you cease commenting on them. That way you'll stop looking silly.

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Well, then what are you doing in the mobile phones and tablets thread? :p Isn't there a legal-tosh-get-touchy-about-Apple-patronize-and-throw-childish insults thread somewhere?

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Originally Posted by Malbec

I agree except where features are deemed to have been copied. I don't see why its deemed acceptable by you that because you don't like one company it should be ok for others to try and copy them. I don't like many features of Apple's behaviour but I believe their competitors should beat them by making a better and different product, not a clone. That way I get a variety of products to choose from and not just Apple and Apple-lite.

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Where did I say it is okay for anybody to copy anything? Galaxy S2 nor Galaxy S3 is in any way, shape or form an iPhone clone. Android is in no way an iOS clone. It is a better OS with far more versatility and plenty more features. With their latest iterations, it seems to me that Google has innovated and gone ahead with Android, whereas iOS has stayed the same. How is that copying?

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Originally Posted by Malbec

The previous cases were only minor because the court judgements affected smaller markets or were less decisive. What the companies were asking for though (Apple included but certainly not exclusively) was always the banning of rival products or major changes to their function.

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Were they banned because of something as trivial as rounded corners though? Why was the Korean company bullied and banned in USA and not anywhere else? You seem to be conveniently ignoring this question in your replies Malbec. What is it, ADD?

Whether you like it or not, innovative products have always inspired design for decades now. Companies have been copying each other forever. There may have been plenty of lawsuits over the last two decades, but none of them with such drastic outcomes. Again, why were Apple successful only in the United States?

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Originally Posted by Malbec

Sorry CR but this is awful. You can't write rubbish like this and be taken seriously.

Patenting exists to protect innovation. Its there to allow people and companies to invest in new technologies safe in the knowledge that their investment can be recouped in the future (if successful) without others copying them and cashing in without cost.

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Please explain first why was this lawsuit taken seriously ONLY in the USA, and then carry on with your pathetic flaming. As you have mentioned before, there have been plenty of lawsuits like this by phone manufacturers, I am sure, especially about edges, rounded corners, plastic buttons, logo placement, box design, enter password to unlock phone etc. Why didn't any of those companies win in the USA and the court put a ban on their rivals?

so has anyone else had the problem with either Iphone 4s or Ipad 2 losing ability to connect to Wifi since upgrading to IOS6? My wifes phone has failed and having done some digging it seems there are hundreds or reported cases cropping up worldwide, with the only definitive fix being downgrading back to IOS5, or having Apple replace the phone (it seems to indiscriminantly target phones, some older, some brand new, even some of the replacements offered by apple. Clearly there is a hardware compatability issue somewhere where some of the phones are not working with the new software, but from what i've read Apple don't have an answer on when they will (if they will) roll out an upgraded IOS6 to solve the problem or if they will just have to replace a bunch more 4s's. either way its a trip to the Apple store next week to see if we can argue for a replacement, having tried about half a dozen supposed fixes to get the WiFi button back

Is she holding it right?

I don't know what your little Apple love story there has to do with, henners, but first off, you're comparing a three year old HTC phone to Apple's current offering. Things are different with the flagship competitor phones. I used iPhone 4S for a week and jumped back to Android in a heartbeat. But then again, different people have different choices. To each his own. À chacun son goût, Chacun son goût. :D

Second, if it was a retort to one sentence in one of my earlier posts in reply to Malbec, I was talking about their latest iterations, and Android 4.1 is universally rated higher and regarded better than iOS6, especially with the maps debacle, not just by me, but by almost all major tech reviewers.

But hey, if in your opinion, iOS is better, then good for you. You should stick to your choice and be happy with it, just as I am with mine. I was retorting to Malbec's claim of Android being a clone, saying how it's now an almost unrecognizable OS with far more features and versatility.

The rest of it, I find it to be the same old repetitive stuff and have no interest in debating as we'll be going in very familiar circles again anyway.

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Originally Posted by Robinho

so has anyone else had the problem with either Iphone 4s or Ipad 2 losing ability to connect to Wifi since upgrading to IOS6? My wifes phone has failed and having done some digging it seems there are hundreds or reported cases cropping up worldwide, with the only definitive fix being downgrading back to IOS5, or having Apple replace the phone (it seems to indiscriminantly target phones, some older, some brand new, even some of the replacements offered by apple. Clearly there is a hardware compatability issue somewhere where some of the phones are not working with the new software, but from what i've read Apple don't have an answer on when they will (if they will) roll out an upgraded IOS6 to solve the problem or if they will just have to replace a bunch more 4s's. either way its a trip to the Apple store next week to see if we can argue for a replacement, having tried about half a dozen supposed fixes to get the WiFi button back

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I've heard about this problem, as one of my friends who owns a 4S also was having this issue since upgrading to iOS6. Have you tried rebooting the phone, and then resetting the router/modem? Worth a shot IMO, as that works in many cases. If not, then a trip to the repair center it is.

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Originally Posted by CaptainRaiden

Well, then what are you doing in the mobile phones and tablets thread? :p Isn't there a legal-tosh-get-touchy-about-Apple-patronize-and-throw-childish insults thread somewhere?

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Just reflect on your behaviour here CR.

I tried to explain some of how patents work. I've had to work with drug patents in the past so I have experience in the area. As soon as what I was saying became inconvenient for your viewpoint your response has been to claim disinterest in legal systems then label me an Apple fanboi (that is how you spell it correct?).

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Originally Posted by CaptainRaiden

Where did I say it is okay for anybody to copy anything? Galaxy S2 nor Galaxy S3 is in any way, shape or form an iPhone clone. Android is in no way an iOS clone. It is a better OS with far more versatility and plenty more features. With their latest iterations, it seems to me that Google has innovated and gone ahead with Android, whereas iOS has stayed the same. How is that copying?

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I might be old and cynical but thats not how I view the picture at all.

Both Apple/Android hardware and software are incredibly sophisticated. They are supposed to represent different solutions to very very similar problems. Given the complexity of the hardware and software it would be naive to believe that there are not significant similarities between the two in parts. Most are perfectly legitimate and either involve third party hard/software or proper patent payments to the relevant company. I'm sure however there are many similarities that are not legally clearcut, some may be accidental infringements, some may be deliberate attempts to copy. Its because of this complex picture that these lawsuits arise, connected to the fact that a successful case could knock competing products out of a market for a time.

Note that I'm not assigning blame to any individual company.

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Originally Posted by CaptainRaiden

Were they banned because of something as trivial as rounded corners though? Why was the Korean company bullied and banned in USA and not anywhere else? You seem to be conveniently ignoring this question in your replies Malbec. What is it, ADD?

Whether you like it or not, innovative products have always inspired design for decades now. Companies have been copying each other forever. There may have been plenty of lawsuits over the last two decades, but none of them with such drastic outcomes. Again, why were Apple successful only in the United States?

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Nice personal insult at the end there.

So Samsung have not been banned anywhere else?

Samsung Galaxy Tab ban upheld in Germany, mein gott! | CNET UK

There you go, Galaxy Tab banned in Germany before the landmark case in California.

Oh here are some other cases.

Motorola Android devices banned in Germany for infringing Microsoft's FAT patent | The Verge
BBC News - PS3 imports banned in patent row

Note the second case.

The PS3 is Sony's biggest single individual earner. The EU is one of Sony's three biggest PS3 markets. LG managed to block PS3 imports into the whole of the EU by targetting the Netherlands which is where Sony Europe's import facilities are. Unlike Samsung which had bans on already obsolete products Sony had a ban on a very current product across a massive market.

So where does this leave your assertion that Apple is the first company to really start suing in the electronics industry? WAKE UP, its been going on forever!

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Originally Posted by CaptainRaiden

and then carry on with your pathetic flaming.

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I have no idea what flaming is but sounds nasty.

Take it up with the mods if you don't like my posts.

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Originally Posted by CaptainRaiden

I've heard about this problem, as one of my friends who owns a 4S also was having this issue since upgrading to iOS6. Have you tried rebooting the phone, and then resetting the router/modem? Worth a shot IMO, as that works in many cases. If not, then a trip to the repair center it is.

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No thats not going to work.

There is a documented problem with iOS 6 where the phone will prefer to download over 3G if connection with wireless is lost even momentarily and will not revert to wireless download if the connection is restored. This has resulted in 3G downloading bills skyrocketing for some owners.

I do think Apple have cut a few corners to get the iPhone 5 and iOS 6 to market in good time for Xmas. Shame.

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Originally Posted by CaptainRaiden

I don't know what your little Apple love story there has to do with, henners, but first off, you're comparing a three year old HTC phone to Apple's current offering. Things are different with the flagship competitor phones. I used iPhone 4S for a week and jumped back to Android in a heartbeat. But then again, different people have different choices. To each his own. À chacun son goût, Chacun son goût. :D

Second, if it was a retort to one sentence in one of my earlier posts in reply to Malbec, I was talking about their latest iterations, and Android 4.1 is universally rated higher and regarded better than iOS6, especially with the maps debacle, not just by me, but by almost all major tech reviewers.

But hey, if in your opinion, iOS is better, then good for you. You should stick to your choice and be happy with it, just as I am with mine. I was retorting to Malbec's claim of Android being a clone, saying how it's now an almost unrecognizable OS with far more features and versatility.

The rest of it, I find it to be the same old repetitive stuff and have no interest in debating as we'll be going in very familiar circles again anyway.

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Oh dear CR, one has to either love or hate Apple right? More nuanced views don't have a place do they.

I don't care how others rate Android 4.1 vs iOS6. However having used both I rate the Android as being far better for me than the iPhone version. You really don't need to convince me of its superiority.

Hence why I'm probably opting for the Xperia T as my next phone. Thats not an iPhone BTW just to clarify further.

BTW I'm such an Apple fanboi as you put it that I'm thinking of the Nexus 7 to dip a toe in the tablet market. Thats by Apple isn't it? Though I have to say that Apple smartphone/tablet hybrid you posted a link to looks good too!

Nor did I claim Android was a clone, I haven't even mentioned any court cases involving Android per se, merely the Samsung vs Apple case which left out Android itself (hence why Google was not directly involved). I suggest you find the sentence where I did and quote it if you disagree.

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Originally Posted by Malbec

So Samsung have not been banned anywhere else?

Samsung Galaxy Tab ban upheld in Germany, mein gott! | CNET UK

There you go, Galaxy Tab banned in Germany before the landmark case in California.

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That link is from 2011. Is the ban in effect? No, a friend just bought a Galaxy tab in Frankfurt. Bans have been lifted in the UK and Germany since, I guess when their legal system realized how ridiculous the lawsuit was. Apple won the lawsuit in the USA, lost the lawsuit in China and the EU, two equally big markets. Apple lost again in other parts of Asia like Japan, and South Korea deemed both parties to be guilty of infringing patents. Nowhere was a victory as clear cut as in the USA, Apple's backyard, especially amidst allegations of mishandling evidence. Also, I highly doubt Samsung will ever win a case against Apple in USA.

Besides, the verdict in USA doesn't even matter, because nobody is paying anybody anything, no devices will truly be banned. Samsung will keep appealing the decision and the re-trial will go on forever.

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Originally Posted by Malbec

I tried to explain some of how patents work. I've had to work with drug patents in the past so I have experience in the area. As soon as what I was saying became inconvenient for your viewpoint your response has been to claim disinterest in legal systems then label me an Apple fanboi (that is how you spell it correct?).

So where does this leave your assertion that Apple is the first company to really start suing in the electronics industry? WAKE UP, its been going on forever!

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I never called you a fanboy, but you do get a tad bit emotional when defending Apple.

Where did I say the lawsuits haven't been going on forever? I am also quite aware of Microsoft's litigation history. But what you're defending here, Malbec, is clearly a broken patent system. I mean when a company can patent a specific rectangular shape (seriously??), aren't they really blocking innovation? Software from different companies have always been heavily similar to each other for as long as I can remember.

Suing your rivals for petty things like slide to unlock or rectangular edges is really desperate and pathetic IMO. I know Apple are full within their rights to do so if they please, but are you actually siding with Apple on this? Having said that, I too think Samsung and LG's lawsuits against Apple are pathetic as well, and serve really no purpose. Neither company benefits from this, because you know the verdict is gonna be appealed no matter who wins. This only enriches the law firms, and ultimately the end user has to pay more. My point is that petty squabbles like these should not exist in technology, no matter which company is wielding the hammer.

For example, I agree with a lot that's written here: https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2012/0...in-marketplace

Especially this part:

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Our patent system is intended to incentivize innovation, in theory at least. Lately it’s become little more than a tool to squelch competition, and it’s not just the Apples and the Samsungs of the world who find themselves fighting these battles. It’s also small and innovative companies, local governments, foreign companies trying to make it in America, hobbyists, and even individual developers. The problems are particularly acute in the world of software: it turns out that software patents are nearly five times more likely to be the subject of litigation as other patents. In fact, lawsuits surrounding software patents have more than tripled since 1999.

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Originally Posted by Malbec

I don't care how others rate Android 4.1 vs iOS6. However having used both I rate the Android as being far better for me than the iPhone version. You really don't need to convince me of its superiority.

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I am not.

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Originally Posted by Malbec

Hence why I'm probably opting for the Xperia T as my next phone. Thats not an iPhone BTW just to clarify further.

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WHAT?? It isn't?? I thought it was called the Apple iPhone Xperia T.

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Originally Posted by Malbec

BTW I'm such an Apple fanboi as you put it that I'm thinking of the Nexus 7 to dip a toe in the tablet market. Thats by Apple isn't it?

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The Apple Nexus 7 doesn't have expandable memory or USB ports, but I guess people don't need that these days, especially flaming Apple loverboys.

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Originally Posted by Malbec

Though I have to say that Apple smartphone/tablet hybrid you posted a link to looks good too!

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The Apple Padfone 2 costs $3000 just so you know.

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Originally Posted by Malbec

Nor did I claim Android was a clone, I haven't even mentioned any court cases involving Android per se, merely the Samsung vs Apple case which left out Android itself (hence why Google was not directly involved). I suggest you find the sentence where I did and quote it if you disagree.

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What you said earlier was:

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Originally Posted by Malbec

I don't like many features of Apple's behaviour but I believe their competitors should beat them by making a better and different product, not a clone. That way I get a variety of products to choose from and not just Apple and Apple-lite.

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Unless I am in a parallel universe and this is Blorgon Delta-6, I believe Apple's competitors include Google and Android as well, and one of Apple's major lawsuits are aimed towards Android, which BTW Google are now countersuing Apple for taking elements off too. Apple has a problem with Galaxy S3 too, which IMO doesn't look like any Apple device in existence.

If Apple could, they would sue every rectangular shaped phone with the candybar form factor. I'm sure the judges in California will find enough evidence and the radii to be the same to award another $1 billion. They targeted Samsung solely because they were its biggest competitor.

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Originally Posted by CaptainRaiden

I never called you a fanboy, but you do get a tad bit emotional when defending Apple.

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I'm not defending Apple. I get annoyed and frustrated at your one-sided simplistic view of the system and your ability to dismiss new information when you don't like it.

My other posts regarding Apple's bizarre Maps debacle and also my own willingness (or rather unwillingness) to invest my own cash into their iPhones and iPads should tell you where I stand on their mobile products.

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Originally Posted by CaptainRaiden

Where did I say the lawsuits haven't been going on forever? I am also quite aware of Microsoft's litigation history. But what you're defending here, Malbec, is clearly a broken patent system. I mean when a company can patent a specific rectangular shape (seriously??), aren't they really blocking innovation? Software from different companies have always been heavily similar to each other for as long as I can remember.

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No you still just don't get it.

The Apple/Samsung US case covered many different bases but the bit you keep bringing up again (rectangles and corners) is not about patents, its about brand protection. iPhones have always had a particular look about them and Apple argued that Samsung were copying this look in the S2. When you put descriptions of a particular look on paper they do sound stupid.

I posted links to Starbucks vs some Chinese cafe. Starbuck's argument sounds equally stupid on paper. Our logo is round and green with a black picture in the middle and white lettering. That cafe chain in China uses a similar logo and are therefore copying us. Please stop them from doing so. How pathetic does that sound?

This isn't about stifling innovation. They weren't asking to ban Samsung from ever making smartphones, just ones that look different from iPhones. The S3 looks nothing like an iPhone so Samsung clearly got the message.

There were obviously many other parts to the court case but the above bit which I've repeated for the third time should give you an insight into why that decision was made.

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Originally Posted by CaptainRaiden

Suing your rivals for petty things like slide to unlock or rectangular edges is really desperate and pathetic IMO. I know Apple are full within their rights to do so if they please, but are you actually siding with Apple on this? Having said that, I too think Samsung and LG's lawsuits against Apple are pathetic as well, and serve really no purpose. Neither company benefits from this, because you know the verdict is gonna be appealed no matter who wins. This only enriches the law firms, and ultimately the end user has to pay more. My point is that petty squabbles like these should not exist in technology, no matter which company is wielding the hammer.

For example, I agree with a lot that's written here: https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2012/0...in-marketplace

Especially this part:

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Agreed.