Well he's driving the 4th best car yet he is just third in the DC ( remember he was second before the last race ). Tells a story doesn't it?Quote:
Originally Posted by Garry Walker
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Well he's driving the 4th best car yet he is just third in the DC ( remember he was second before the last race ). Tells a story doesn't it?Quote:
Originally Posted by Garry Walker
4th best is relativeQuote:
Originally Posted by 555-04Q2
earlier in the season they were tops at some point and Mercedes were 4th best, then at the very first race Lotus where tops and Ferrari were the 2nd best car
then for a while the RBR was the best car, then Mercedes had its day at the top step
In Hungary Ferrari were the 4th best. That could easily turn around in Spa. Vettel, Kimi, Alonso and Hamilton are the class of the field with the latter 2 probably capable of pushing any car well beyond its capabilities.
The 2 races that Alonso won, especially in span, that Ferrari looked dominant. In china earlier it ran rampant on the competition only kimi managing to stay withing 10 seconds of the car. In Malaysia he qualified in a strong p2 and might have been in contention for the race win. So lets not make it sound like he has been driving a lemon all year long. All 4 top teams seem to have their day in the sun and then days in the shadows. I expect them to be stronger in Spa, so they might jump to 2nd best then right ;)
Well Red Bull and Mercedes have won all the pole positions this year so we have to assume that their cars are the 2 fastest, right? ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by truefan72
And the Lotus has been pretty good, so maybe Fernando has the equal 3rd best car then? :)
Unfortunately, having the best car for 2 races out of 12 isn't going to win championships.
Even more so when the last time it was the best was in the middle of May.
Sadly, even if the car was the best, the lightweight underperforming Massa would leak too many points.
Sad but true :(
I am perplexed as to the charity shown by the management towards Felipe.
His lack of performance, the failure to take significant positions away from rivals, has effectively lost the Scuderia two titles in three seasons.
It is concerning that the President expends energy criticising the overdue outburst of the teams only chance of success, yet has failed to act decisively over the ongoing failure of Massa to add value.
I can understand an unwillingness to replace a driver mid-season due to the testing restrictions and the experiences with Badoer and Fisichella. I can understand that many drivers would not want to be second driver in a team. I am afraid that I cannot understand a loyalty due to an accident, which I have sometimes heard is the reason for the patience extended to Massa.
That is just sentimentality. If there is any basis to it, it is a worry as to the weakness of the management.
Perhaps Luca should look in the mirror the next time he wishes to find someone to lambast?
Luca has been reading this thread?
Yes he has, Luca is an old member of this forum ;)
Hopefully he will return and add wisdom, as this forum arena seems to be a pleasant place, with no gangs or provacateurs.
Specially in the light of some other teams changing their drivers like their mechanics change gloves.Quote:
Originally Posted by Parabolica
Ferrari was nowhere near taking even one constructor title in the last three years. The points spread from RedBull was just too big. In fact, in 2010 and 11, Ferrari finished third behind McLaren. To catch RedBull, Ferrari's second driver had to do well enough not only to best RedBull's number two driver, but also to score the difference in points between Alonso and Vettel. This Ferrari driver basically would have to destroy Webber while driving a slower car. That's quite a feat. Maybe someone on the level of Raikkonen could have done it, (oh wait, they could have had him..), but I doubt someone fresh and young from the current pull of available drivers could manage.Quote:
His lack of performance, the failure to take significant positions away from rivals, has effectively lost the Scuderia two titles in three seasons.
Either way, I was surprised they signed Massa for another year in 2012.
I had more in mind the Drivers title.
I cannot think of many occasions when a constructors title has been won by less than the equal to best car.
There have been a few times a Drivers title has been won with an inferior car.
Oh I see. However, I still think it's a far fetching statement to say that someone else could have taken enough points from _the rival_ (Vettel) to make Alonso take WDC titles in say 2010 or 2012. Massa is the _last_ person/thing to be blamed for that. Massa was thrown under the bus to help Alonso several times. Besides the team orders, we don't know how many times Massa's car was a guinea pig for experimental parts or tire strategies. If Ferrari's second driver was good enough to be able to deny enough points to Vettel to help Alonso, this driver would also inevitably end up taking some points from Alonso as well, which brings us back to where we started. Realistically, I think Alonso in the end really badly needed a slightly better car, the one that could do better in qualifying, specially in 2012.Quote:
Originally Posted by Parabolica
I agree that the F2012 was just not good enough.
I also agree that, certainly toward the end of the season, Massa was sacrificed for the bigger prize.
But, when the F2012 was capable of taking some points off Vettel (Spain, Britain, Germany and possibly Spa), then only once, in Britain, did Massa even look like capable of doing so.
Were those races ones where Massa was sacrificed for tactics and to do work for Alonso?
I fear that Massa is now too far away, in consistency, to be a positive attribute.
I am happy to accept the rationale that you propose that he did do work for Alonso. I don't think it was as much throughout the season to be accountable for all the races he was absent, but they are good and valid ideas.
Ferrari has been the better race car than Mercedes in many races. Also, it has been a better car than the Lotus. Not counting Red Bull, which has obviously been the very dominant car once again, Ferrari is overall probably the best car. But I expect this to change by the end of the year, Mercedes for one will end up being the overall better car.Quote:
Originally Posted by 555-04Q2
I didn't think he had the intelligence to be able to register at a forum.Quote:
Originally Posted by pino
Felipe is still a very fast driver and can compete with Alonso pacewise when he is doing well, but he cannot match Alonso's consistency. To add to the problem, Felipe is emotionally a very fragile driver and the current atmosphere at Ferrari, where he was obviously made nr.2 driver since the first race of 2010, is something that is too hard for him to handle. So his performances suffer. I can see Ferrari still keeping him for a year, because Bianci is not ready, Hulk is dissapointing this year and I really hope Kimi will not go there. There are no other serious candidates for the seat.Quote:
Originally Posted by Parabolica
He is far too emotional and stupid for that.Quote:
Perhaps Luca should look in the mirror the next time he wishes to find someone to lambast?
Four years of number one threatment, a car that clearly was at the sharp end 2010 and 2012.
Fernando, I hope that you get something like the Brawn 2009 car next year like Button, because you need it.
Massa should like Webber move on to something else while he is still young and capable. His morale is probably shattered after all the events since his 2008 title battle loss. Changing the environment may be good in this situation. But then again, maybe he just wants to hang at Ferrari as long as he can.
It is interesting that it is claimed that Ferrari operated Fernando as outright Number 1 in 2010, when the races at Melbourne and Monte Carlo showed that, at the time, they did not. Arguably, that lost the title.
Ferrari, in truth, have not had a car at the sharp end, all season long, since 2008.
Perhaps that was an early indication of the lack of strength with Domenicali. Even Luca has said that he needs to be more ruthless, more willing to upset the team. Just as in 2008 when development was allowed to go in Massa's favour, away from Kimi.
I could never understand why that happened, nor why Kimi did not enforce his position.
Anyone who was voted best driver in like 3 out of 4 of the last years,or something, by the drivers themselves, could make you eat those words :dozey:Quote:
Originally Posted by Mia 01
I saw this :confused:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CduA0TULnow
Fernando would have had the title in Seb's car in 2009 already! :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Mia 01
Hey Luca, go throw yourself under a train.
You and Domenicali are clueless tools.
Alas, even with a fantastic Sunday by Fernando, I feel the title is over.
There are encouraging signs for Monza, if the top speed advantage without DRS can be maintained on a Monza set-up.
But, straight after the Autodromo, Domenicali must show strength and make the decision to go to 2014 for all development. To chase 2013 after Monza would be detrimental.
RBR and Seb are doing what Ferrari and The Shoe did between 2000 - 2004. RBR are peerless at the moment and the rest are just spectators.
Lol. I don't think so. It'll never be the same.Quote:
Originally Posted by 555-04Q2
http://www.supercars.net/gallery/94535/365/13151.jpg
Plain and Simple - It's FLAVIO time for Ferrari !!!!
Holy sh!t the old dog is still around :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Roamy
Ferrari should be strong at Monza although Red Bull is still the favorite IMO. Apparently there is finally some good development work going on. I don't think they (Fred) have a very good chance of overhauling RB. Felipe is playing to the home crowd I'm sure, however his comments are music to my ears:
Felipe Massa sure Ferrari now back on track after Belgian GP result - F1 news - AUTOSPORT.com
Maybe, I think it depends on who pushes developement work longest.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary Walker
One can always hope and dream. :dozey:Quote:
Originally Posted by Mia
Not so fast there mister. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Para’
Well played :up:Quote:
Originally Posted by Para’
:laugh:Quote:
Originally Posted by Mia
Wonder, when will Ferrari get to the top again. Yeah, they have been close several times, but not quite there across the whole season.Quote:
Originally Posted by 555-04Q2
It would be a huge blow for competitors if the next Ferrari era began after Vettel has joined the team.
It is now five years since it can be last claimed Ferrari really had the fastest car over a season (2008).
With the current crop of management and technical staff, don't think it will happen :(Quote:
Originally Posted by jens
So long as it is before 2028, I can manage!
I don't think I could bear another 21 year drought. One of those in a lifetime is enough.
However, having said that, I do still hope the knife is wielded on the management sooner rather than later.
Yes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mia 01
In 2008.
"The journalists had lots of questions for Kimi and some referred to President Montezemolo's remark about Kimi's "twin-brother", who raced during the second half of the last season"
Just to confirm it -
Raikkonen: I want to win - Pitpass.com
"Following Stefano Domenicali's revelation that Ferrari President Luca di Montezemolo believed that Kimi Raikkonen's twin brother was driving for his team on occasions last year - a reference to the Finn's apparent total lack of motivation in certain races - the 2007 World Champion has declared himself to be as motivated as ever and raring to win this season.
Ferrari, the right choice - Raikkonen - F1technical.net
Yea', well it doesn't say anything about it happening on his birthday......dude! :s tareup: http://i46.tinypic.com/hv9ul3.gif
How remiss of me!Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Alca-Tazizzle
I will now go and throw myself off the nearest available cliff.
For the best result, ensure there are jagged rocks at the bottom :p :Quote:
Originally Posted by Parabolica
Now you tell me!
Fortunately, an Ospreys nest broke my fall.
Watch out for mama bird!!!!!
That was no osprey .Quote:
Originally Posted by Parabolica
That was a red tailed hawk .
:s tareup: What about Hawkmoon?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Parabolica
Welcome back Tamb' ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Tamburello
Great minds think alike?