Rally History (part III)

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Originally Posted by D-Type

I'm afraid that's all I could find searching the 1950's Motor Sport CD ROM - They didn't list the Championship rallies every year. The lists were published in the November or December magazines and were the lists provided by the CSI or the RAC for the following year.
Perhaps the Weisbaden was originally listed as Rallye Travemünde in October 1953 and by the time it was run it had become the Rallye Weisbaden. As I said above, the two towns aren't that far apart so it could well be the same rally. Or perhaps one club found they couldn't run a major rally so the other took over, or ....? Even in those pre-sponsorship days the names of rallies did change.

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As far as I can make out the title "Rally Deutschland" and ERC status was given to a pre-existing event (at least most years) a bit the way the title "European Grand Prix" was used in the 1950s and 60s.

Wiesbaden seemed to be the most favoured but exceptions I know of are:
1953 Travemunde
1955 Nurburgring
1962 Baden-Baden
1966 DR title given to an event organised by Rhineland Westfalia club and started in San Martino di Castrozza in Italy!
1969 Baltic Rally also called RD

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Originally Posted by grisza

D-Type, would you be so kind and post here also rounds of ERC from 1956-58?

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1956 Season
26th Rallye Monte Carlo
7th Rallye Automobilistico Internazionale del Sestriere
6th RAC Rally of Great Britain
Acropolis Rally
8th Internationale Tulpen Rallye
Geneva Rally
6th Rallyer till Midnattsollen
Rallye Wiesbaden
Coupe des Alpes
21st Liege-Rome-Liege
Rallye Viking
5th Rallye Adriatique
Iberian Rally

1957
Rallye Monte Carlo Cancelled
7th RAC Rally of Great Britain Cancelled
VIII Rallye del Sestriere
Acropolis Rally
9th Internationale Tulpen Rallye
Rallye Wiesbaden
7th Rallyer till Midnattsollen
Geneva Rally
Coupe des Alpes Cancelled
6th Rallye Adriatique
22nd Liege-Rome-Liege
Rallye Viking
Iberian Rally Cancelled

1958
27th Rallye Monte Carlo
9th Rallye del Sestrieres
7th RAC Rally of Great Britain
6th Acropolis Rally
10th Internationale Tulpen Rallye
Rallye Deutschland
9th Rallyer till Midnattsollen
Coupe des Alpes
7th Rallye Adriatique
27th Liege-Rome-Liege
Rallye Viking

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Originally Posted by Fred Gallagher

1966 DR title given to an event organised by Rhineland Westfalia club and started in San Martino di Castrozza in Italy!

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Same organisers in 67? Didn't Hopkirk slag them off (with justification, as some controls were like an English "hunt the marsall" clubbie) after 66 so they refused his entry in 67 and he had to grovel to get back in?

That's interesting....

I don't think 1967 was an ERC round. Do you agree?

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Originally Posted by Infiniti

Hello Jrally,

This is what I have, indeed it's very hard to find results from Austrian rallies

11. Lavanttaler Frühlings Rally 27-29 March 1987

1 Georg Fischer – Thomas Zeltner Mig Linz Audi Coupé Quattro
2 Franz Wittmann – Jörg Pattermann Funkberäter Lancia Delta HF 4WD
3 Franz Filzmoser – Markus Mitterbauer Volkswagen Golf GTi 16V
4 Andreas Karasek – Fritz Schweighofer Ford Sierra RS Cosw.
5 Alois Pfeiffer – Hubert Stadler Mazda 323 4WD
6 Eddy Schlager – Ernst Röhringer Mazda 323 4WD
7 Peter Holub – Wolfgang Jörg Mercedes Benz 190E 2.3-16
8 Karl – Müllner Mazda 323 4WD
9 J. Winkler – E. Winkler Volkswagen Golf GTi 16V
10 Langauer - Kisselbach Mitsubishi Lancer

9. Int. Pirelli Phyrn-Eisenwurzen Rally 1-2 May 1998

1 Raphaël Sperrer – Christina Hörner Renault Elf Team Mégane Maxi
2 Markus Mitterbauer - Detlef Ruf Team Castrol Toyota Celica Turbo 4WD
3 Achim Mörtl - Jörg Pattermann Sebring Technology Subaru Impreza WRC
4 Willi Stengg - Harald Wolf Sebring Technology Ford Escort RS Cosw.
5 Sepp Haider - Stefan Eichhorner Peugeot Rallye Team 306 Maxi
6 Raimund Baumschlager - Klaus Wicha Remus Racing Volkswagen Golf TDi
7 Herbert Lettner - Heike Feichtinger Team Castrol Volkswagen Golf Kit Car
8 Matthias Moosleitner - Sigi Schwarz Ford Escort RS Cosw.
9 Tomaž Jemc - Matjaž Korošak Petrol Racing Ford Escort RS Cosw.
10 Fritz Waldherr - Thomas Fleer Lancia Delta HF Int.

If you have more results of the 87 and 98 championship, please I'm searching for this, but hard to find.

Regards,
Infiniti

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Hi infiniti,
Sorry for the late answer.
I have some results from 1998. Please, send me a PM with your mail and I'll be glad to send them to You !

Best regards
Jorge

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Originally Posted by Fred Gallagher

That's interesting....
I don't think 1967 was an ERC round. Do you agree?

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Seems it was 66 that Hopkirk had to write a letter of apology to get his entry (or rather BMC's for him) accepted, following comments in his Autosport column about the 65 event. (source: Bill Price, in who's books I often seem to struggle with the correct year)
Sure I've seen adverse comments from Elford about the 66 German too (but then he probably had something bad to say about all the 66 events he did for Ford...)

Thank you very much Fred for posting those ERC rallies from 1956-58. Could you please post also rounds from 1953 and '54 as I'm not sure if I got it right.

1st European Touring Championship - 1953

1 23rd Rallye Monte Carlo
2 4th Rallye Automobile del Sestriere
3 3rd RAC International Rally of Great Britain
4 5th International Tulpen Rallye
5 3rd Internationaler Rallye Travemunde
6 4th Svenska Rallyt till Midnatssolen
7 26th Rallye International des Alpes
8 Liege-Rome-Liege
9 Rally Viking 1953
10 7th Rallye Automovel de Lisboa (Estoril)

2nd European Touring Championship - 1954

1 24th Rallye Monte Carlo
2 5th Rallye Automobile del Sestriere
3 4th RAC International Rally of Great Britain
4 6th International Tulpen Rallye
5 16th Wiesbaden Rallye
6 5th Svenska Rallyt till Midnatssolen
7 27th Rallye International des Alpes
8 Liege-Rome-Liege
9 Rally Viking 1954
10 24th Geneva Rally

European Touring Championship - 1955
1 25th Rallye Monte Carlo 17th-24th January
2 6th Rallye Automobilistico Internazionale del Sestriere 25th February - 1st March
3 5th RAC Rally of Great Britain 8th-13th March
4 7th Internationale Tulpen Rallye 30th April - 7th May
5 I Internationaler ADAC - Rallye Nürburgring 19th-22nd May
6 5th Rallyer till Midnattsollen 14th-18th June
7 4th Rallye Adriatique 20th-24th July
8 20th Liege-Rome-Liege 17th-21st August
9 Rallye Viking 9th-12th September

Thank you very much Fred. As I thought, I had incomplete data from those years.

George Lidbury(?) - ...? Simpson GB Ford Escort RS
Cristopher Wothen(Worthen?) - ...? Simpson GB Ford Escort RS 2000

Please help me with these names from 1977

Christopher (Chris) Wathen. Best known for Vospers of Plymouth RS1600 around 74 time. An identical car in same colours was run by Norman Anstis (who ran a pub in Newquay!).
Can't immediately think of a Lidbury.
Was Simpson co-drivers name or a separate driver. There was brothers Geoff Simpson/Alan(?) Simpson around then.
Will check some entry lists. What was the particular context?

'FAL' - Thank you!

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Originally Posted by FAL

Will check some entry lists. What was the particular context?

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They ran in Bulgaria, in 1977. You can see one of the Escorts(LUH591) in this video 00:35, 01:43, Wothen at 02:34(no.22.):
http://lepoldsportvideo.hu/videok/ba...garia_1977.wmv

I am working on the correct start-list, but I am not 100% sure, probably:
George Lidbury(?) - John(?)Simpson GB Ford Escort RS
Christopher Wothen - George(?) Simpson GB Ford Escort RS 2000

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Originally Posted by RobertS

'FAL' - Thank you!


They ran in Bulgaria, in 1977. You can see one of the Escorts(LUH591) in this video 00:35, 01:43, Wothen at 02:34(no.22.):
http://lepoldsportvideo.hu/videok/ba...garia_1977.wmv

I am working on the correct start-list, but I am not 100% sure, probably:
George Lidbury(?) - John(?)Simpson GB Ford Escort RS
Christopher Wothen - George(?) Simpson GB Ford Escort RS 2000

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Hi Robert,
Taken from a british magazine, Chris Wathen-John Simpson

Best regards
Jorge

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Originally Posted by jrally

Taken from a british magazine, Chris Wathen-John Simpson

Best regards
Jorge

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Ahhh, I see now :) Wathen

Thanks Jorge!

Please help me with some Austrian names from 1977:

...? Fürst - ...? Fürst A BMW 2002ti
Karl-Heinz Rittenau - H...? Liendl A Mazda 323
H...? Hannold - Erich Svanda A LADA 1300
Thomas Dartsch - K...? D...? Gordziel D BMW 2002

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Originally Posted by RobertS

Please help me with some Austrian names from 1977:

...? Fürst - ...? Fürst A BMW 2002ti
Karl-Heinz Rittenau - H...? Liendl A Mazda 323
H...? Hannold - Erich Svanda A LADA 1300
Thomas Dartsch - K...? D...? Gordziel D BMW 2002

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Only this one ..
Thomas Dartsch - Klaus Dieter Gordziel D BMW 2002

Best regards
Jorge

Robert,
Who was Nº 101 in Taurus 74 ?

Jorge

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Originally Posted by jrally

Who was Nº 101 in Taurus 74 ?

Jorge

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101. J... Drevo - P... Proks CS Trabant

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Originally Posted by RobertS

101. J... Drevo - P... Proks CS Trabant

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Thank You very much, Robert !

Best regards
Jorge

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Originally Posted by jrally

Thank You very much, Robert !

Best regards
Jorge

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Josef Dřevo - Petr Prokš

A bit of a random one, but the Almeras Porsche team were always sponsored by Eminence, what was/is Eminence?!

I Googled 'Eminence' and not many companies came up. Eminence Speakers appears to be the most likely candidate. I doubt if it was Eminence Organic Skin Care or the Brazilian pop group Eminence

But I have to admit I am only guessing.

We wondered also about Eminence, back in the day. Then in 82 or 83, on receiving the programme for Ypres at signing on, there was a large advert in Flemish in it, stating: "Eminence - in de pupen" and a photo of an item of male underwear, padded out to an unlikely degree at the front...
In 83 the Eminence sponsored car was, I think, the 037 of Zanussi but I'm sure I recall the name on the Charles Pozzi Ferrari 308GTB of Francis Vincent (who of course previously drove an Almeras Porsche).

:mad: Wrong guess!

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Originally Posted by FAL

We wondered also about Eminence, back in the day. Then in 82 or 83, on receiving the programme for Ypres at signing on, there was a large advert in Flemish in it, stating: "Eminence - in de pupen" and a photo of an item of male underwear, padded out to an unlikely degree at the front...
In 83 the Eminence sponsored car was, I think, the 037 of Zanussi but I'm sure I recall the name on the Charles Pozzi Ferrari 308GTB of Francis Vincent (who of course previously drove an Almeras Porsche).

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Ha ha, you appear to be correct:

http://www.planet-undies.com/catalog...ction/3243.jpg

!

Although not connected to Ecurie Cod Fillet, they should have been! ;)

Does anybody have an entry list or any results for the 1960 RAC British International Rally please, or a link where I can find them online?

Many thanks.

Times when Group B was popular... damn :$

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Originally Posted by Majks21

Times when Group B was popular... damn :$

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Pardon??

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Originally Posted by MG Rally

Does anybody have an entry list or any results for the 1960 RAC British International Rally please, or a link where I can find them online?
Many thanks.

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Entry list, yes. If you can find them on line, please let us all know!
I gather from elsewhere you are actually interested in one car in particular rather than the whole lot.
If you really need the full list I can send it but on the basis of personal use only/not for wider circulation/publication. Some others on here also have it but the difficulty in finding it means we are cautious about it freely arriving with prolific "for profit" authors who have done no real research of their own for their books.
(It's the RAC International Rally of Great Britain, by the way)

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Originally Posted by FAL

Entry list, yes. If you can find them on line, please let us all know!
I gather from elsewhere you are actually interested in one car in particular rather than the whole lot.
If you really need the full list I can send it but on the basis of personal use only/not for wider circulation/publication. Some others on here also have it but the difficulty in finding it means we are cautious about it freely arriving with prolific "for profit" authors who have done no real research of their own for their books.
(It's the RAC International Rally of Great Britain, by the way)

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Thank you 'FAL', and yes you are quite right (from elsewhere!) that I was actually just looking for details of one single entry!...

...it was the #27 MGA of W.S.B. Clayton / W.G. Langstone. The reason for asking about that particular event and entry is that I have recently acquired the following Coventry Evening Telegraph photo, showing the MGA tackling the Wolvey skid pan near Coventry. If anybody can confirm an entrant, registration number or final result that would indeed be most appreciated...

http://i1218.photobucket.com/albums/...ps0a0e7b54.jpg

Sorry 'FAL' - I didn't mean to tread on anyone's toes!

I am not an author of any kind, but just a 'simple' enthusiastic collector looking for some background information to file with a recent acquisition, and nothing more...

Is any of the registration number clear enough to read on your original? Every little bit of information helps.

I gather Dave Thomas has now sent you his entry list. I have that and had added data to it but can confirm nothing new added about that car. Yes it is the Wolvey test.
Marcus Chambers' book "Works Wonders" covers the 60 RAC in greater detail than many other events it records. You can piece together from it a complete list of all the tests. I'll re-read it to see if a non-works MGA gets a mention.

The gentlemen in the MGA finished 123rd overall and 16th in class having incurred 21,111 road penalties. 21,057 of these were from the first two sections Blackpool to Brough to Peebles and thereafter they had a pretty good run.

Fred

No mention of that car by Marcus Chambers or Bill Price in their books. Probably safe to assume it was not an ex-works car (which I don't think were white).
The first 3 in the 1301-2000 GT class (class 7) were:
1. Douglas Johns/Rev. Rupert Jones, ex-works (not works loaned) Wolseley 1500.
2. J.Melvin/W.Bennett, Sunbeam (not clear whether an Alpine or a Gp3 Rapier).
3. C.Bent Marshall/D.Pratt/R.Gahan, Wolseley.
It may be worth highlighting that, if all 3 were saloon cars (in a GT class), saloons modified beyond Group 2 rules were categorised as Gp3 GT cars under the then FIA rules.

(It never ceases to amaze me how many people rallied 3 up Wolseley 1500s /Riley 1.5s. I recall them as cramped inside, even compared to a Mini).
Apart from having a very silly name for a rally driver, C Bent Marshall's claim to fame today is that he was later navigated (in a Cooper S, including on the Monte) by the father of comedian/actor Alan Davies.

was wondering if anyone could tell me when these cars made the first international debut
bmw m3
ford sierra cosworth
ford sierra xr4x4
renault 11 turbo
ford escort mk2
subaru rx turbo