Top Gear!

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Originally Posted by CaptainRaiden

TG gave a crushing blow to the Jaguar's chances with this comparison. Who in the right mind would actually buy that crap Jag for almost 30,000 pounds more? :eek: It doesn't look any better, and would be absolutely MAULED by the GTR on the road or on the track. Loved Rowan's inch perfect fastest lap.

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There are still people like Jon who want something like a Jag which isn't as good as the opposition ;)

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Originally Posted by Daniel

There are still people like Jon who want something like a Jag which isn't as good as the opposition ;)

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And it's not even like it's maybe 5000 or 6000 pounds more, it's almost 30,000 pounds more!! What would one pay that ridiculous amount for? Ahem, *cough* looks *cough* or some false sense of national pride about British engineering? For 97,000 pounds you could buy a Nissan GTR (which is already better than the Jag in every aspect) + two more cars or buy yourself a better house. :p

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Originally Posted by CaptainRaiden

And it's not even like it's maybe 5000 or 6000 pounds more, it's almost 30,000 pounds more!! What would one pay that ridiculous amount for? Ahem, *cough* looks *cough* or some false sense of national pride about British engineering? For 97,000 pounds you could buy a Nissan GTR (which is already better than the Jag in every aspect) + two more cars or buy yourself a better house. :p

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Exactly. I've never been one for the whole national pride thing, but the Brits seem to really be up for it. There's a reason why most British cars aren't popular outside of Britain ;)

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Originally Posted by Daniel

Exactly. I've never been one for the whole national pride thing, but the Brits seem to really be up for it. There's a reason why most British cars aren't popular outside of Britain ;)

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Also, Jaguar is now no longer entirely British. It's a wholly owned subsidiary of Tata Motors. So, even if the cars are still made in Britain at Jaguar's factory, the money goes to India. :p

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Originally Posted by Daniel

Exactly. I've never been one for the whole national pride thing, but the Brits seem to really be up for it. There's a reason why most British cars aren't popular outside of Britain ;)

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Which would be fine if it just meant that Brits tended to buy more British cars, but that feeling of national pride extends to the media and even worse to the industry itself...

I've always been stumped as to why companies like Rover or the old motorbike companies felt that people should pay more for their stuff than 'inferior' Japanese or German products just because they were British... I guess thats why they disappeared.

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Originally Posted by CaptainRaiden

Like I said, "real" racing drivers. :p Besides that might be the one of the reasons why Villeneuve isn't in F1 right now. Also, I don't get how that is relevant. That wasn't a guy being passionate about his car, that was his freakin huge ego costing his team money and inconvenience.



Like I said in my earlier post, regular folks like us would never be able to get a supercar to the limit on normal roads to know the difference, EVER. That MAY BE possible at a track day, but they'd be afraid to wreck it. Probably only the folks who have money to throw, like millionaires or billionaires, would do it. So, we're really talking about a really small group here. Also, not all billionaires t necessarily have to be good drivers. There are also morons.

At one of the tracks in India where I took part in the national karting championship, Mr. Vijay Mallya was the guest of honor. Before the race he uncovered his brand spanking new Porsche Carrera GT, wore an Arai helmet, squeezed his fat ass into Alpinestars racing overalls, got buckled up and everything, wanted to showboat, there was applause when he started the engine, he accelerated and then drove it straight into the wall wrecking the half a million dollar supercar.

Clarkson, Plato and Needell can all say what they want to, I still am free to make up my mind. Probably Mclaren didn't pay them enough marketing money. :p And I would still prefer the Mclaren because of the way it looks, sounds and what was said about it. A sweet handling supercar is my dream car, but well, us mere mortals can only dream. :D If you've ever struggled with an ill handling car during a race, you'd know what I'm talking about. And mind you, the Mclaren at full throttle would also need 'taming'. It's not like the car suddenly has 200% grip and you just turn at 200 mph without braking. But the best part about that car is you would have full confidence going into a corner, because you know exactly what the car is capable of. I have never met anybody in my life who just "loves" catching understeer or oversteer.

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It appears that McLaren took the criticism of Clarkson on Top Gear, as well as those from EVO, Autocar and various other reviews rather more seriously and have made several changes to the cars actually going on sale, including a louder induction noise under heavy acceleration, light movement on the gear change paddles and an improved feel on turn in. It appears that they are very much realising that if they want this car to be the equal or better of the Ferrari 458, which is being touted as the benchmark they do need to improve certain areas. I have no doubts the McLaren was a lready a stunning car, but it might already be a little bit better as a result of the reviews that you so quickly derided, including Clarkson's

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Originally Posted by Robinho

It appears that McLaren took the criticism of Clarkson on Top Gear, as well as those from EVO, Autocar and various other reviews rather more seriously and have made several changes to the cars actually going on sale, including a louder induction noise under heavy acceleration, light movement on the gear change paddles and an improved feel on turn in. It appears that they are very much realising that if they want this car to be the equal or better of the Ferrari 458, which is being touted as the benchmark they do need to improve certain areas. I have no doubts the McLaren was a lready a stunning car, but it might already be a little bit better as a result of the reviews that you so quickly derided, including Clarkson's

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Did you get a copy of EVO through the door too? :) I doubt Ferrari would allow that. In fact here's what Ferrari do How Ferrari spins

I'll take a McLaren in Papaya Orange thanks :)

as for the Jag v GTR thing, they really aren't genuine competitors, the Jag is a 2 seat sports GT coupe. It finished to a high standard and isn't built to be the last word in handling or trick electronics. It might be a base of a GT3 race car, but that will be a very different animal.

The GTR is all about showcasing the very best in electronically assitied chassis and driving dynamics, about going as quickly as possible, not about cruising, comfort or style. They are both very good at what they do, but they don't stack up as direct competitors for me. And being the absolute fastest is not the alsways the last word when you enjoy driving, its the feel you get from the car when driving it wherever you do your driving. If you spend a lot of time on the track then the GTR is more likely the car for you. As for buying British, we might be the only people buying Britis cars (more histroicvally than now as there really aren't any truly British mass manufacturers left), but the split of manufacturers is far wider in the UK than most other countries in Europe, where the French predominantly drive Renault, Peugeot or Citroen, the Germans VW, Audi, BMW, Merc and Opel, Swedes more Volvos and Saabs, Italians Fiats and Alfas. it was partly because the UK embraced the imports over the national manufactueres that they died out (and partly because they had a prolonged period of producing ****e)

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Originally Posted by Daniel

Did you get a copy of EVO through the door too? :) I doubt Ferrari would allow that. In fact here's what Ferrari do How Ferrari spins

I'll take a McLaren in Papaya Orange thanks :)

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I did, and i have to say I'm very impressed with McLarens response and speed of implementing the changes. I think there are a lot of us who desperately wanted the McLaren to be the perfect car, and it seems it was so close in so many areas that these few changes might make all the difference.

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Originally Posted by Dylan H

Which would be fine if it just meant that Brits tended to buy more British cars, but that feeling of national pride extends to the media and even worse to the industry itself...

I've always been stumped as to why companies like Rover or the old motorbike companies felt that people should pay more for their stuff than 'inferior' Japanese or German products just because they were British... I guess thats why they disappeared.

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And because if I'm honest they British cars of the last 4 decades have in general been inferior in both quality and design to their continental and Japanese counterparts.

The British Leyland stuff and later Rover Group products were dismal. While their counterparts were starting to make advances in technology they were still churning out crap with live rear axles and so on. Type K series into google and the third result is head gasket, what does that tell you about the K series and its ability to blow head gaskets? ;)

Fords are better but take a look at previous model Ka's, the last Escorts and similar vintage Mondeos. They rust like buggery! Heck even Focii (though to be fair I don't think they were ever UK produced) are starting to rust. To me rust on the body of a car these days isn't acceptable at all.