Team orders at Ferrari

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28th July 2010, 10:25
Rusty Spanner

All I can say is thank god Ferrari have been prevented from becoming a 3 car team!
28th July 2010, 11:25
Dave B

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rusty Spanner

All I can say is thank god Ferrari have been prevented from becoming a 3 car team!

Felipe, Alonso...is...faster...than.... oh wait a minute....Fernando, Valentino is even faster. :p
28th July 2010, 11:28
555-04Q2

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saint Devote

He was losing time - Alonso also had to move through traffic.

Massa's lead went from 3 seconds to gearbox close - that is SLOWER and Alonso passed him.

No matter how you wish to spin it - it is not possible for someone to be quicker AND be caught.

Just look and you will also see that Alonso's quickest lap on lap 66 and Massa's also on lap 66 was quicker than Massa.

But this is a technical matter - the point is moot in my view.

Even if Alonso was 10 seconds behind Massa - it is Ferrari's right and the proper traditon of motor racing always, that the number 2 driver [Massa] move aside for the number 1 driver [Alonso] at a team's instruction.

I think you need to watch the race again (as I have) and see the lap times and how Alonso was able to catch Massa. Until you do that, I cannot explain any more to you.
28th July 2010, 13:01
wedge

Quote:

Originally Posted by henners88

What has annoyed people is the blatancy and the fact some members of Ferrari are claiming it never happened and some are saying yeah we did it so what?

If Ferrari are silly enough to do it in an obvious way and then have the we are bigger than the sport attitude, then they will surely be man enough to take a severe punishment should it be dished.

Damned if you do, damned it don't admit to team orders.

So what Ferrari to do? The public and media will say its OK for team orders in one instance but not another.

What was so obvious about the team orders from Ferrari? They dropped a hint to Massa and it was down to him, and him only on how it should be executed. Massa did it in such a way that it would create a sh-t storm. If Massa pretended to make a mistake would there still be a fuss?

If it was that obvious why did the stewards take so long to intervene, no investigation message on screen and only when there was a media outcry generated?

The monetary fine was a joke. Why weren't they made into an example? What kind of message does that send out? Ferrari were guilty, well, sort of.
28th July 2010, 13:16
markabilly

Quote:

Originally Posted by wedge

Damned if you do, damned it don't admit to team orders.

So what Ferrari to do? The public and media will say its OK for team orders in one instance but not another.

What was so obvious about the team orders from Ferrari? They dropped a hint to Massa and it was down to him, and him only on how it should be executed. Massa did it in such a way that it would create a sh-t storm. If Massa pretended to make a mistake would there still be a fuss?

If it was that obvious why did the stewards take so long to intervene, no investigation message on screen and only when there was a media outcry generated?

The monetary fine was a joke. Why weren't they made into an example? What kind of message does that send out? Ferrari were guilty, well, sort of.

in other words, as practiced by the others, cheating is okay, as long as you do not get caught.

Tried this kind of argument on a judge many years ago, that there were many others speeding much worse than me on the road and day in question...and that the limit was much too low, a newer three lane road that was set at 30mph, the same speed the road had been back as a single lane, beat up old road before it was re-built......and the judge said, plenty of people get away with murder, but does that mean someone should be permitted to walk out the door because others escape their just punishment???

and then the little twit doubled the fine, though I had said sorry, did not mean to be going so fast..like 40 mph..... :(
28th July 2010, 13:30
Retro Formula 1

Quote:

Originally Posted by markabilly

in other words, as practiced by the others, cheating is okay, as long as you do not get caught.

Tried this kind of argument on a judge many years ago, that there were many others speeding much worse than me on the road and day in question...and that the limit was much too low, a newer three lane road that was set at 30mph, the same speed the road had been back as a single lane, beat up old road before it was re-built......and the judge said, plenty of people get away with murder, but does that mean someone should be permitted to walk out the door because others escape their just punishment???

and then the little twit doubled the fine, though I had said sorry, did not mean to be going so fast..like 40 mph..... :(

With Judges and Policemen, the best thing to do is say sorry and look repentant. Not stick two fingers up at them as Ferrari seem to do :laugh:

I can just imagine Alonso in front of the WMSC.

"But why are you penalising me. Singapore was much worse and I never got done there so you should let me off with this one too!!"
28th July 2010, 14:00
Dave B

Quality:

http://www.unlap.co.uk/79-rob-smedle...s-t-shirt.html

:D
28th July 2010, 14:02
wedge

Quote:

Originally Posted by markabilly

in other words, as practiced by the others, cheating is okay, as long as you do not get caught.

Tried this kind of argument on a judge many years ago, that there were many others speeding much worse than me on the road and day in question...and that the limit was much too low, a newer three lane road that was set at 30mph, the same speed the road had been back as a single lane, beat up old road before it was re-built......and the judge said, plenty of people get away with murder, but does that mean someone should be permitted to walk out the door because others escape their just punishment???

and then the little twit doubled the fine, though I had said sorry, did not mean to be going so fast..like 40 mph..... :(

It's not even that. On what basis were Ferrari guilty of?

Team orders are banned but it's acceptable to execute them in one way but not another. It's such a great grey area the speeding analogies is flawed: you either broke the limit or you didn't, how far over is meaningless.
28th July 2010, 14:04
wedge

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Brockman

Quality:

http://www.unlap.co.uk/79-rob-smedle...s-t-shirt.html

:D

Is there one with 'Magnanimous' followed by dictionary style definition?
28th July 2010, 14:06
Dave B

I'm going to order one of those and then see if I'm brave enough to wear it to Monza!

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