Hamilton Stripped of Win - Official

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Originally Posted by Daniel

Stop telling people what they are thinking and saying!!!!!! It's RUDE and you keep on doing it. People have come out and said why they think Lewis was penalised and that they agree with it and you should accept that this is their opinion. Just as I accept that people feel he shouldn't have been penalised. If you can't keep to the discussion you simply resort to calling people biased and so on and on. It's not cool and you just make yourself look silly. You've had your say numerous times and we all know what you think so unless you have something new and useful to add to the discussion.....

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Rather than personal attacks, why not get back to the facts I posted.

Then again, why ;)

:laugh:

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Originally Posted by cosmicpanda

I think that leaving the track is a slightly different thing to leaving the track AND gaining an advantage. What penalties are stipulated for just leaving the track, never mind gaining advantage?

Perhaps, since cutting a chicane is a faster way of getting through the corner, they considered Lewis to be getting an advantage there. It seems that the FIA does not consider it advantageous to use the runoff at the outsides of corners like La Source and Pouhon.

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Good point.

I think that the rule is pretty ambiguous.

For example, in the PdlR / Schumacher example, Schumacher went off track and gained an advantage by not losing his position which he would have done otherwise. However, he gained no "actual" advantage regarding race position.

However, he did gain an advantage by going off track as he would have lost his place but there was no penalty.

With Kimi at the beginning, he made a mistake and went off track but rejoined in the same place thereby not gaining any advantage but did not lose a place or any time.

Is this to be considered an advantage though as there was no penalty for going off track and although he gained benefit by going off track in not losing a position he otherwise would have done, he didn't gain a place.

With Lewis, before he had to avoid a collision, he was partially alongside. Then he cut the chicane and ended up ahead so he lifted giving Kimi the lead, about a cars length gap and superior momentum down the straight meaning he was in a worse position than before he cut the chicane.

Yet he is further penalise 25 seconds when the others who it could be argued benefited from going off track were not penalised.

Regardless of the teams or drivers involved, this is obviously wrong isn't it?

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Originally Posted by Knock-on

Rather than personal attacks, why not get back to the facts I posted.

Then again, why ;)

:laugh:

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I've not personally attacked you at all. Stop trying to cause trouble. As you can see above I'm happy to talk facts. It seems you're the one going on about bias :mark:

Then again gerbil telephone pesticide woop woop! ;)

:laugh:

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Originally Posted by Malllen

It was Klien. It was 'fine' because Alonso had to lose another 5-10 seconds to let Klien re-pass him again, despite already conceding to Klien after cutting the chicane.

He was penalised for this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdy6qzI2-A4

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Yes but he still gained an advantage from his competitor. Its not the competitors fault Alonso sped off being realising he had to let him pass.

And the link provided, to my knowledge he didn't get penalised for this move. Have you got source for your claim?

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Originally Posted by jas123f1

The question was:
Is it allowed to pas race leader like Hamilton did or is it not allowed?

And when we are looking on the pictures and the video we can clearly see that obviously it’s not allowed – that means: if Lewis had been on the track it had been impossible for him getting past Kimi as he did.. so what are stewards supposed to do? They must punish the driver who is breaking the rules – that easy it is. If they don’t do it – were we are going then??

My opinion is that they made right decision – and I’m sure they did know what the media should say about it afterwards. Especially the English … a Courageous decision in my mind.. :)

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But Hamilton was so much quicker in those conditions. He caught him up 2s that lap alone. Surely even if he'd take the chicane, he'd have got past him eventually. Plus fact Kimi crashed, no sporting advantage was gained, reason for Massa not getting penalised at last race.

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Originally Posted by Daniel

I've not personally attacked you at all. Stop trying to cause trouble. As you can see above I'm happy to talk facts. It seems you're the one going on about bias :mark:

Then again gerbil telephone pesticide woop woop! ;)

:laugh:

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Well, rather than going obout telling people how rude they are :rolleyes: perhaps you would care to answer this post.

I will repeat the facts.

In the PdlR / Schumacher example, Schumacher went off track and gained an advantage by not losing his position which he would have done otherwise. However, he gained no "actual" advantage regarding race position.

However, he did gain an advantage by going off track as he would have lost his place but there was no penalty.

With Kimi at the beginning at Spa, he made a mistake and went off track but rejoined in the same race position thereby not gaining any advantage but did not lose a place or any time which he would have done if, for example, there was gravel there instead of nice sticky tarmac.

Is this to be considered an advantage though as there was no penalty for going off track and although he gained benefit by going off track in not losing a position he otherwise would have done, he didn't gain a place but merely maintained one.

With Lewis, before he had to avoid a collision, he was partially alongside. Then he cut the chicane and ended up ahead so he lifted giving Kimi the lead, about a cars length gap and superior momentum down the straight meaning he was in a worse position than before he cut the chicane.

Yet he is further penalise 25 seconds when the others who it could be argued benefited from going off track were not penalised.

Regardless of the teams or drivers involved, this is obviously wrong isn't it?

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Originally Posted by DexDexter

Ok, tell me how it is possible that a car that goes off the circuit is only 6km slower on the next straight (and right behind) a car that goes around the circuit correctly? Fair? No advantage? How can going off the circuit result in an overtaking manouvre in the next corner? That shouldn't be possible. Anyway it's up to the stewards to tell the drivers what they can do before these things happen, but they just aren't very good, are they?

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Yes but in the past what Hamilton has done is enough. But when he does it its not.

Plus no sporting advantage gained, reason given for not penalising Massa.

Its like Schumacher is allowed to save a position by cutting a chicane, but when Hamilton does, its a drive through penalty...

Its not Ferrari's fault, but they always seem to benefit from inconsistant Steward decisions.

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Originally Posted by cosmicpanda

It's "drive through", not "drive true," although that is no doubt a useful sentiment.

You might also ask why Kimi was not penalised for staying on the runoff at Pouhon, getting better grip from the abrasive tarmac and overtaking Rosberg and Lewis.

Perhaps the FIA does not penalise these because in both cases rather than cutting the corner Kimi instead went around the outside of the corner?

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Thats a good point. Or a couple of years back, I remember Schumacher overtaking off the circuit after the hairpin....no penalty.

Again, not Ferrari's fault, but highlighting inconsistancies with a tendency to favour Ferrari.

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Originally Posted by DexDexter

Drivers have always used the outside line after the first corner in Spa and for some reason the FIA has always allowed it to happen.

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Drivers have always let cars past if they overtake by cutting a chicane, and that is enough to not get penalised. But apparently McLaren should have guessed that the Stewards were going to take into account the time he would have lost had he taken the chicane properly.

"I got in his tow ..." -Lewis Hamilton .

"Fortunately , I got back in his slipstream ..." -Lewis Hamilton .

"Shut up , Lauda . " - bagwan .