Team orders at Ferrari

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Originally Posted by Saint Devote

Does this mean you agree with the ruling, oppose Ferrari's right and pretend that in all the years of refueling there were no team orders using pit stops?

You may be happy with "ignorance is bliss" but anyone even still in short pants, understands what happens in f1.

The sooner the rule is abandoned, the sooner teams can be honest about what happens and the better, because the Brazilian sulkiness is rather tiresome as is the self-rigteous reaction from those who have no actual stake in what happens in a team.

Unjust rules and regulations should be ignored and broken - just because they are rules and regulations means nothing.

Well done to Ferrari for justly and courageously pursuing their own rational self-iinterest.

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Yet again you manage to put on your red blinkers and COMPLETELY miss the point of my post. The primary issue at hand here is not whether the rule is just or not (and moreso we have to look at the intention of the rule as to whether this is just rather than the narrow-minded there is no justification as to the prevention of team orders in any circumstance) but rather the issue at hand is whether Ferrari broke the rule. Well seems that you are advocating that they have? In fact you praise Ferrari for explicitly breaking this blanket ban on team orders and as such i'm expecting that you will be front of the line in terms of wanting them punished? For it is in accepting the punishment that they show themselves to truly respect the rule of law in F1.......but that isn't what you are advocating is it?

No instead what we see here are the double standards which have lead to such heated discussion. The rules are only of relevance when they help me to achieve my ultimate goal. When the team-order rule isn't affecting me but may potentially impact my competitors then it isn't a worry BUT when suddenly i'm in the spotlight then it is unjust. And as such I should get away with breaking them for I am merely showing the rule to be unfair and draconian so there shouldn't be a punishment for me.

Hypocrisy seems to be part and parcel of Ferrari in terms of how they operate (and it is interesting that you sprout about them wanting to win the WDC but when you look at their past history they care more about WHO wins them the WDC - missing wheel in '99 anyone???). End of the day if this rule really is as unjust as they claim it to be then there will be support from the other teams and moreso the regulating body will consider how best to address these issues. Even if this occurs using your own logic SD they have knowingly broken this rule and as such should feel the full weight of any penalty.......because hey end of the day we completely accept that they are in support of fair application of any rule against any offender regardless of which team might be in breech :rolleyes:

How can anyone who is a "morally just" ferrari fan not be ashamed of what the big boss has done?????

Or who is just a fan of F1 like me, who has been watching the races since 1966????

It was simply cheating, they knew it was cheating, and they would have continued to cheat, but then they screwed up big time. And after they thought about it for a while, Luca figures out that this set of lies will not cut it, so he jumps up on his high pedestal and anounces he is morally right, citing traditions from the times there were no such rules....oh yeah right on.

Atleast flavio and dennis were not running off at the mouth trying to morally justify their cheating through some sort of self righteous profundities of some divine right originating with the creation of mankind and ferrari

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Originally Posted by Tumbo

Yet again you manage to put on your red blinkers and COMPLETELY miss the point of my post. The primary issue at hand here is not whether the rule is just or not (and moreso we have to look at the intention of the rule as to whether this is just rather than the narrow-minded there is no justification as to the prevention of team orders in any circumstance) but rather the issue at hand is whether Ferrari broke the rule. Well seems that you are advocating that they have? In fact you praise Ferrari for explicitly breaking this blanket ban on team orders and as such i'm expecting that you will be front of the line in terms of wanting them punished? For it is in accepting the punishment that they show themselves to truly respect the rule of law in F1.......but that isn't what you are advocating is it?

No instead what we see here are the double standards which have lead to such heated discussion. The rules are only of relevance when they help me to achieve my ultimate goal. When the team-order rule isn't affecting me but may potentially impact my competitors then it isn't a worry BUT when suddenly i'm in the spotlight then it is unjust. And as such I should get away with breaking them for I am merely showing the rule to be unfair and draconian so there shouldn't be a punishment for me.

Hypocrisy seems to be part and parcel of Ferrari in terms of how they operate (and it is interesting that you sprout about them wanting to win the WDC but when you look at their past history they care more about WHO wins them the WDC - missing wheel in '99 anyone???). End of the day if this rule really is as unjust as they claim it to be then there will be support from the other teams and moreso the regulating body will consider how best to address these issues. Even if this occurs using your own logic SD they have knowingly broken this rule and as such should feel the full weight of any penalty.......because hey end of the day we completely accept that they are in support of fair application of any rule against any offender regardless of which team might be in breech :rolleyes:

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They broke an unjust rule that goes completely against justice, the history of racing and the way Enzo Ferrari thought - that does not deserve punishment, it deserves applause and praise for the strong leadership of Luca de Montezemolo.

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Originally Posted by markabilly

How can anyone who is a "morally just" ferrari fan not be ashamed of what the big boss has done?????

Or who is just a fan of F1 like me, who has been watching the races since 1966????

It was simply cheating, they knew it was cheating, and they would have continued to cheat, but then they screwed up big time. And after they thought about it for a while, Luca figures out that this set of lies will not cut it, so he jumps up on his high pedestal and anounces he is morally right, citing traditions from the times there were no such rules....oh yeah right on.

Atleast flavio and dennis were not running off at the mouth trying to morally justify their cheating through some sort of self righteous profundities of some divine right originating with the creation of mankind and ferrari

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1966 :eek: Good god man, it must be so tough for you considering all the cheats you've had to put up with from then until now in formula 1.

You are quite simply a martyr - Mother Theresa, eat your heart out dear! All you were, was a saint!

Just like me :-]]

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Originally Posted by Saint Devote

Just like me :-]]

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Like hell, not even close

Say YEA to Tumbo !!!

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Originally Posted by Tumbo

Perhaps you should change your name over to GOD devote since you make such sweeping statements as to what one MUST do and how absolutely correct your opinions are in every way, ............

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And why not? The Grate Man has spoken.

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Originally Posted by henners88

This is like bashing our heads against a brick wall because no matter how often we say it you just don't take any notice. Team orders always have been part of F1 and always will, but they are banned. Teams execute team orders in subtle ways like through pitstops. Nobody is denying that, nobody is denying that, nobody is denying that, nobody is denying that.

What has annoyed people is the blatancy and the fact some members of Ferrari are claiming it never happened and some are saying yeah we did it so what?

If Ferrari are silly enough to do it in an obvious way and then have the we are bigger than the sport attitude, then they will surely be man enough to take a severe punishment should it be dished.

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You know what. There is something good about bashing your head against a brick wall. It feels better when you stop. :p : :D :rotflmao:

The speed limit on my road sucks so in a few minutes I'll break it... Hell, the kids are off school. If I get pulled over I'll claim it's an unjust rule. Come and visit me, won't you?

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Originally Posted by pino

Dave just a question for you...what's the difference between what happent on Sunday and what happent in Hockenheim in 2008 between Lewis and Kovalainen ?

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kovaleinen was not leading the race after a brilliant start and the macs where not outpacing all the other cars by a mile. Hamilton did not get on the radio and bemoan the fact that kovaleinen was leading the race and he could not pass him. Actually Hamilton was a good .500 seconds faster than kovy or anyone else that race and caught up with him at an incredible rate. He would have passed him anyway as he proved so by dispatching massa next then piquet jr for the race lead. Kovy did not follow suit and held station unable to emulate hamilton.

The difference my good sir is that probably no one told kovy to move over and he understood like many in is place that is teammate was so much faster than him that it would be pointless trying to hold him up. He would have been passed anyway fair and square.

there is a huge difference in that situation to what occurred this past sunday. apples to oranges i say ;)