FIA offical checking McLaren equality*Merged*

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Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1

ioan, you are moving towards the crux of the problem with the FIA's decision :up: It is an open invitation for anyone, not just a driver, to cry "favouritism" for whatever reason. When they do I would expect the FIA to place an observer in their garage...that is if I believed for a moment that the FIA were applying the rules in this matter (remind me, which 'rule' is being applied here?) in an even-handed and fair manner.

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I already explained this, but I'll do it again.
The FIA observer will be there for the good of the sport and for the good of the championship winner.

This observer will watch the race from the McLaren garage, will be often shown to us on TV and that's all.
In case that LH won the championship there was a chance that FA will publicly complain, again, about the team favoring LH.

Here's where the FIA will step in and will tell him to shut it because there was a FIA observer who didn't see any kind of favoring towards Hamilton.
Case closed and Hamilton will be seen as a "worthier" WDC than if FA would have had his chance expressing his opinion.

Why do you all believe that McLaren agreed to this if it's against them it's still impossible to understand.

It's the only way to ensure that Alonso won't make a complete mockery of this season if he marginally loses the title to Hamilton.

The only other way to stop this would have been to DQ both FA and LH from this year's championship when they disqualified the team for cheating, but Bernie wouldn't have been happy about that, so here we are.

And we can trust the the observers impartiality how much?
http://sport.guardian.co.uk/motorspo...192601,00.html

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"It is perfectly normal for a British team and British fans wanting to succeed in formula one but it is ironic that the racists in England are having to rely on a coloured pilot," said Carlos Gracia .

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And this is the guy who will be deciding if the treatment for a Brit driver and Spanish driver is equal?

Perhaps the Spaniards here can shed some light into the alledged original newspaper story?

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Originally Posted by ioan

Why do you all believe that McLaren agreed to this if it's against them it's still impossible to understand.

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I can just imagine your reaction had they not "agreed" to this!! Anyway, the Spanish Federation's President was invited to attend by Ron Dennis, so McLaren's agreement, or otherwise, is irrelevant. The point is why the FIA are getting involved.

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Originally Posted by janneppi

And we can trust the the observers impartiality how much?
http://sport.guardian.co.uk/motorspo...192601,00.html
And this is the guy who will be deciding if the treatment for a Brit driver and Spanish driver is equal?

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He has since clarified his comments:

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Gracia distanced himself from controversial comments about Hamilton in an interview published in Spanish daily El Publico on Tuesday.
Questioned about the support the McLaren driver enjoyed in England and the desire of the media to see an English world champion, Gracia was quoted as saying:
"It's understandable that they want to make the most of it. But given how racist they are in England, the fact that they have to rely on a coloured driver...They tried it with (Jenson) Button and he let them down."
But Gracia told Reuters: "I'm very surprised by what was published and lament the interpretation which has been put on the words. They were taken out of context and wrongly interpreted."

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http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/63364

In that same Autosport story Carlos Gracia further reinforces how completely uneccessary and unwarranted the FIA's involvement in this is:

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"I'm convinced that Hamilton and Alonso are going to get exactly the same treatment," Spanish Motorsport Federation president Carlos Gracia told Reuters in a telephone interview.
"McLaren have demonstrated their professionalism over many years and so has Ron Dennis.
"I met with Ron Dennis at his request in Madrid this morning and we discussed the season and that meeting confirmed my confidence in him and the team."
Gracia will also be attending the race at the invitation of Dennis.
"The only reason for my presence at Interlagos is because Ron Dennis had the courtesy to invite me," said Gracia. "He showed his complete professionalism by offering Pedro Martinez de la Rosa as a translator so if I had any questions or doubts they could be resolved."

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Disgust at Spanish racist comments - Let's examine UK and Spanish attitudes.

Think we can expect Aragones' (spanish soccer manager) comments about Thierry Henry to get an airing
Just for the record, I'm white and 53 years old. As an Arsenal fan I revel in the fact that every ethnicity in London is represented in our fanbase.
African, Afro-Caribbean, Asian (sub-con and SE), Jews and Arabs and so on.
I don't think the Spanish can tell us anything about tolerance and understanding - How many non-latins represent Spain in any field of endeavour?
At last the truth outs. :rolleyes:

Why are the FIA getting involved? What kind of question is that?!
Who should get involved instead of the FIA? Elvis?!

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Originally Posted by Mintexmemory

Disgust at Spanish racist comments - Let's examine UK and Spanish attitudes.

Think we can expect Aragones' (spanish soccer manager) comments about Thierry Henry to get an airing
Just for the record, I'm white and 53 years old. As an Arsenal fan I revel in the fact that every ethnicity in London is represented in our fanbase.
African, Afro-Caribbean, Asian (sub-con and SE), Jews and Arabs and so on.
I don't think the Spanish can tell us anything about tolerance and understanding - How many non-latins represent Spain in any field of endeavour?
At last the truth outs. :rolleyes:

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Let' not go down that road. There are racists everywhere, no country is excepted.

Deplores and distances Spain from Gracia comments.

Doesn't explain the treatment of Samuel Eto'o at Zaragoza last season or the monkey noises made in the Bernabeu stadium when England played there last.

Racism NO - Healthy British xenophobia YES :D (After all it seems we aren't liked by the rest of the world so why bother)

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Originally Posted by ioan

Let' not go down that road. There are racists everywhere, no country is excepted.

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The genie is out of the bottle. Many of us have wondered how such a good driver as LH could inspire such anger. Not everyone that dislikes Lewis is racist but the issue is out in the open (and therefore necessary to debate) because of the Gracia comments

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Originally Posted by Mintexmemory

The genie is out of the bottle. Many of us have wondered how such a good driver as LH could inspire such anger. Not everyone that dislikes Lewis is racist but the issue is out in the open (and therefore necessary to debate) because of the Gracia comments

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It might be, but he since than commented on that.
Plus you were just comparing 2 countries population from the POV of their racist inclinations, and that's completely wrong.
That's all.

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Originally Posted by ioan

I already explained this, but I'll do it again.
The FIA observer will be there for the good of the sport and for the good of the championship winner.

This observer will watch the race from the McLaren garage, will be often shown to us on TV and that's all.
In case that LH won the championship there was a chance that FA will publicly complain, again, about the team favoring LH.

Here's where the FIA will step in and will tell him to shut it because there was a FIA observer who didn't see any kind of favoring towards Hamilton.
Case closed and Hamilton will be seen as a "worthier" WDC than if FA would have had his chance expressing his opinion.

Why do you all believe that McLaren agreed to this if it's against them it's still impossible to understand.

It's the only way to ensure that Alonso won't make a complete mockery of this season if he marginally loses the title to Hamilton.

The only other way to stop this would have been to DQ both FA and LH from this year's championship when they disqualified the team for cheating, but Bernie wouldn't have been happy about that, so here we are.

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I agree that you have an excellent point...indeed you are to be congratulated as it appears you are thinking ...like..or reading.....well better not say it.... :uhoh:

Indeed, because of the actual worthless nature from a technical point of view, you have it down and everyone should see that clearly this is done solely to make it look fair, no matter how unfair or playing favorites may occur behind the scenes.... ....

Funny how everyone else is still debating about whether it is justified for some substantive reason having to do with actually "keeping it clean" and real, actual necessity, even arguing now it is all about racism.... when it was done it was never about that....they are just drinking maxie/benie (and even RD's) kool aid and paying full admission....with some still thinking the second hearing was the result of some technical merit of Mac being caught cheating and others claiming that it is because max loves Red or hates RD..... :monkeedan

No it is all about the shoooowww

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Originally Posted by ioan

Why are the FIA getting involved? What kind of question is that?!

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A perfectly reasonable one particularly given that Gracia has said: "I'm convinced that Hamilton and Alonso are going to get exactly the same treatment...I met with Ron Dennis at his request in Madrid this morning and we discussed the season and that meeting confirmed my confidence in him and the team."

The FIA's pretence for getting involved has no foundation.

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Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1

A perfectly reasonable one particularly given that Gracia has said: "I'm convinced that Hamilton and Alonso are going to get exactly the same treatment...I met with Ron Dennis at his request in Madrid this morning and we discussed the season and that meeting confirmed my confidence in him and the team."

The FIA's pretence for getting involved has no foundation.

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"The FIA's pretence for getting involved has no foundation."

It never did and Maxie knows that .....but the word "pretense" is very correct :D

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Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1

A perfectly reasonable one particularly given that Gracia has said: "I'm convinced that Hamilton and Alonso are going to get exactly the same treatment...I met with Ron Dennis at his request in Madrid this morning and we discussed the season and that meeting confirmed my confidence in him and the team."

The FIA's pretence for getting involved has no foundation.

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Is this the same Gracia that approached the FIA about his concerns not so long ago?

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Originally Posted by Carlos Gracia

I showed my concern over the situation that Fernando is going through, which is no secret, and he reassured me.
The FIA are going to have an official who is going to watch very closely that nothing bad happens to Fernando, above all in qualifying, which is where there have been most complaints or strange situations in recent races.

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http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpa...s_art_id=33149

Maybe now is clearer why the FIA did what they did!
Because M. Gracia did ask them to do it.
And the fact that now he is saying that he thrusts McLaren is just because of the uproar that has been caused in Britain by a certain Jackie Stewart.

Can we stop now accusing the FIA because they are trying to give a bit of worth to an eventual Hamilton WDC title instead of letting all hell lose when that happens and Alonso throws the toys out of the pram? :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by ioan

..... they (FIA) are trying to give a bit of worth to an eventual Hamilton WDC title instead of letting all hell lose when that happens and Alonso throws the toys out of the pram? :rolleyes:

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Seems a little late and a 100 million short for that...sort of like a doctor trying to fixa broken finger on a patient whose head was chopped off months ago....and Alonso is gonna toss, no matter what, even with the WDC crown in his bag.......

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Originally Posted by ioan

Can we stop now accusing the FIA because they are trying to give a bit of worth to an eventual Hamilton WDC title instead of letting all hell lose when that happens and Alonso throws the toys out of the pram? :rolleyes:

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Many non-partisan observers of F1 over the years would quite rightly point out that his title doesn't need to have 'worth' added to it.

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Originally Posted by Mintexmemory

The genie is out of the bottle. Many of us have wondered how such a good driver as LH could inspire such anger. Not everyone that dislikes Lewis is racist but the issue is out in the open (and therefore necessary to debate) because of the Gracia comments

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I agree with your assessment.

Also, I'd add that when Gracia refers to his words being taken out of context, he doesn't say that he didn't utter them, nor explain what the context in which they should be taken is.

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Originally Posted by ioan

I already explained this, but I'll do it again.

The only other way to stop this would have been to DQ both FA and LH from this year's championship when they disqualified the team for cheating, but Bernie wouldn't have been happy about that, so here we are.

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ioan's comments all seem to revolve around this, and the fact that he's still grousing over the fact that the FIA didn't give Ferrari all the hardware (WDC & WCC) for this season. They were ajudicated for having the info, not for using it.

get over it, dude...

as for the Spanish Inquisition... er, Federation, it seems that they are more akin to not equal treatment as would be with a mid-pack team, but more the way it was for Schumacher at Ferrari or Alonso's time with Renault. Seems that they, along with Alonso, were looking for a wingman out of Hamilton and not a competitor.

So one does have to wonder, if both drivers are treated 'equally', and Hamilton still outperforms Alonso on the track this weekend, what will they say then? Will they honor the results or continue to make complaints of inequalty, driven mostly by not supporting Alonso to their satisfaction (read not giving him the WDC regardless of the results).

Aquiescing to having FIA officials in their paddock this weekend is more to 'okay we'll do this, now let's get on with the work of winning a race' than any percieved instance of guilt, although some will never be convinced of that no matter what level of information to the contrary is released.

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Originally Posted by veeten

So one does have to wonder, if both drivers are treated 'equally', and Hamilton still outperforms Alonso on the track this weekend, what will they say then? Will they honor the results or continue to make complaints of inequalty, driven mostly by not supporting Alonso to their satisfaction (read not giving him the WDC regardless of the results).

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Which, as his reported request to Ron Dennis some way into the season to slow Hamilton down and preferably drop him at the end of the season, is clearly the case as far as Alonso is concerned. To me, this cancels out any sympathy I may have had for his position.

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Originally Posted by veeten

Aquiescing to having FIA officials in their paddock this weekend is more to 'okay we'll do this, now let's get on with the work of winning a race' than any percieved instance of guilt, although some will never be convinced of that no matter what level of information to the contrary is released.

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:up:

It has certainly given a boost to the conspiracy theories. Thankfully, when one reads the serious motorsport publications in any country, they ignore such things.

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Originally Posted by veeten

ioan's comments all seem to revolve around this, and the fact that he's still grousing over the fact that the FIA didn't give Ferrari all the hardware (WDC & WCC) for this season. They were ajudicated for having the info, not for using it.

get over it, dude...

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Get over it?

You can't get over the fact that there will be a FIA official in the McLaren garage in a mere try to restore the teams damaged image and you dare ask me to get over the biggest spying incident in F1 ever?! :laugh: :rotflmao: :laugh:

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Originally Posted by BDunnell

It has certainly given a boost to the conspiracy theories. Thankfully, when one reads the serious motorsport publications in any country, they ignore such things.

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Any country means England, Scotland and Ireland?!
Or there are no motorsport publications in other countries? :s

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Originally Posted by BDunnell

:up:

It has certainly given a boost to the conspiracy theories. Thankfully, when one reads the serious motorsport publications in any country, they ignore such things.

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Which ones, you mean like autosporthttp://www.autosport.com/subs/ ... al&id=1297


or stuuff about what Stewart thinks?

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/63335

or this

http://www.planet-f1.com/story/0,189...794723,00.html

or this

http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns19773.html

or this
http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns19769.html

or this "These things happen in racing but it is worrying that the affair is now being investigated again by the stewards" about the wet weather safety car episode
http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns19769.html
:confused:

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Originally Posted by Valve Bounce

As I posted on the other thread:"Can you imagine the FIA going to Ferrari, while Michael Schumacher was at the helm, and insisting that his No.2 Rubens Barrichello or Eddie Irvine, was accorded the same privileges and that both men had to race on an equal footing?"

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:up:

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Originally Posted by ioan

Any country means England, Scotland and Ireland?!
Or there are no motorsport publications in other countries? :s

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I don't understand what you mean by that. Sorry.

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Originally Posted by BDunnell

I don't understand what you mean by that. Sorry.

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I thought so. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by ioan

I thought so. :rolleyes:

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No, I genuinely don't know what you're getting at.

Well it didn't look like serious publications in Italy or Spain agree with serious publications from England over what went around in F1 this season.

So which countries were you referring to?

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Originally Posted by ioan

Well it didn't look like serious publications in Italy or Spain agree with serious publications from England over what went around in F1 this season.

So which countries were you referring to?

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Germany, France and the Netherlands to name but three.

With regard to UK magazines, do you believe that the likes of Alan Henry and Nigel Roebuck are biased commentators because they have not come up with conspiracy theories, have praised Hamilton's performances and stated that they believe Ron Dennis to be an honourable man?

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Originally Posted by BDunnell

Germany, France and the Netherlands to name but three.

With regard to UK magazines, do you believe that the likes of Alan Henry and Nigel Roebuck are biased commentators because they have not come up with conspiracy theories, have praised Hamilton's performances and stated that they believe Ron Dennis to be an honourable man?

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The whole UK based news papers were so biased towards Hamilton this season that it's impossible not to see it.

So back to my question aren't Spain and Italy countries with serious opinions too?

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Originally Posted by ioan

The whole UK based news papers were so biased towards Hamilton this season that it's impossible not to see it.

So back to my question aren't Spain and Italy countries with serious opinions too?

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... like Gazzetta dello Sport? or maybe FOX news... remember, fair and balanced. ;) :p :

or maybe that's 'fairly unbalanced'. :crazy: :laugh:

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Originally Posted by veeten

... like Gazzetta dello Sport? or maybe FOX news... remember, fair and balanced. ;) :p :

or maybe that's 'fairly unbalanced'. :crazy: :laugh:

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I never claimed that they were balanced! :laugh:

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Originally Posted by ioan

The whole UK based news papers were so biased towards Hamilton this season that it's impossible not to see it.

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The tabloid newspapers were, but the good F1 journalists were fair and balanced, yet still impressed. I think they were quite right.

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Originally Posted by ioan

So back to my question aren't Spain and Italy countries with serious opinions too?

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I didn't say, or even suggest, they aren't.

Geeeass

two plkus pages over dumb journalists!!

this thread is getting to be as trivial and BORING as it gets

Every civlized country with real freedom of the press are over run with tabloid mania.
Britain led the charge. But are not necesarily the most TabloiDelicious*



*That's a technical term

OK, here's a different conspiracy theory for you...suppose Gracia wanted to get to the season finale at Brazil and decided that if he made a vocal complaint about fairness, he might get invited by RD with absolute VIP treatment including watching the race from the pits. Perhaps Senor Gracia is craftier than you think! :)

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Originally Posted by wmcot

OK, here's a different conspiracy theory for you...suppose Gracia wanted to get to the season finale at Brazil and decided that if he made a vocal complaint about fairness, he might get invited by RD with absolute VIP treatment including watching the race from the pits. Perhaps Senor Gracia is craftier than you think! :)

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Nice one ;)

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Originally Posted by wmcot

OK, here's a different conspiracy theory for you...suppose Gracia wanted to get to the season finale at Brazil and decided that if he made a vocal complaint about fairness, he might get invited by RD with absolute VIP treatment including watching the race from the pits. Perhaps Senor Gracia is craftier than you think! :)

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Indeed, but then the topey dwat has since inserted his foot well and truly in his cake hole, and shown the world that he is also a racist pig.

Still, true to form I hear the FIA are investigating. :p :

Oh, sorry no link, but it was in the London Metro this morning, if you scour the bins in the city you might just find a copy :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by wmcot

OK, here's a different conspiracy theory for you...suppose Gracia wanted to get to the season finale at Brazil and decided that if he made a vocal complaint about fairness, he might get invited by RD with absolute VIP treatment including watching the race from the pits. Perhaps Senor Gracia is craftier than you think! :)

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certainly luckier than me--I am stuck with a mere backmarker, not a frontrunner....

Yesterday, I called Maxie about the unfair and unequal treatment given by the management of Red Cow to Scott not Speed, and demanded the same: That in light of the unequal treatment given to Scott as demonstrated by the brutual attack on his body as well as getting fired, mean nasty treatment that did NOT happen to his teamate, I must be appointed the invited guest of the team to act as special screwtineer to be sure Scottie gets full and equal treatment at Brazil GP...... :p :

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Originally Posted by markabilly

certainly luckier than me--I am stuck with a mere backmarker, not a frontrunner....

Yesterday, I called Maxie about the unfair and unequal treatment given by the management of Red Cow to Scott not Speed, and demanded the same: That in light of the unequal treatment given to Scott as demonstrated by the brutual attack on his body as well as getting fired, mean nasty treatment that did NOT happen to his teamate, I must be appointed the invited guest of the team to act as special screwtineer to be sure Scottie gets full and equal treatment at Brazil GP...... :p :

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Whilst your post is a little TIC, it does highlight the FIA poking its nose where it need not be poked issue surrounding the scrutineer............

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Originally Posted by SGWilko

Indeed, but then the topey dwat has since inserted his foot well and truly in his cake hole, and shown the world that he is also a racist pig.

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:rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by SGWilko

Indeed, but then the topey dwat has since inserted his foot well and truly in his cake hole, and shown the world that he is also a racist pig.

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Yes, it can be distressing when somebody uses a sweeping and incorrect generalization when describing the people of a nation.