Printable View
On lap 60 (of 94) in the Craftsman Truck Series race @ Talladega today ...
Jacques Villeneuve crashed & took-out 2 other trucks with him ...
Jacques Villeneuve was a DNF & was credited with 30th (of 36 entrants)
I guess being a previous openwheel champion doesn't give you a free pass on the track ! http://www.motorsportforum.com/forum...ongue-anim.gif
No, but being a lap down does.Quote:
Originally Posted by RaceFanStan
Only IF you are the "Lucky Dawg" ... http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g2...ink/orn/00.gif
JV made up for his wrecking in the CTS event. He wisely went to the back to not mess up anyone's race, and slowly was working forward and staying out of trouble. At one point he had trouble with the radio and was blackflagged. Then he had a little loose adventure and scraped the wall, but managed to keep going, and at the very end, made sure he stayed out of the way. He was all about learning, and he learned a lot and still got a 21st. Lots of good drivers had cars turn hard right or hard left for no reason (Labonte still doesn't know why the 43 got away from him, and he is a VERY good driver, the COT has its quirks at this speed I guess) and get into wrecks, yet JV stayed clean and didn't rile anyone up. Third NASCAR event in, he is learning. This year is all bout figureing out what this is all about, and BDR should be running him in ARCA, Busch and CTS if they can swing it. He needs the seat time, but in the end, he will do just fine.....
Actually, I doubt that JV will ever be competitive enough to make the Chase. He will always be somewhere between 15 and 25 in the points in his Nascar career. He is not a young gun and his best days are behind him. Of course though his fans will claim that he is learning and "wait until next year". :)
Muggle, no...but until he is not racing a vehicle with rookie stripes on it, cut the guy some slack. Also, in NASCAR, old guys win more often than any other form of racing, and Jacques is just a few years older than Jeffy Gordon, so I would hardly say his best days are that far in the rear view mirror.Quote:
Originally Posted by muggle not
As for his future success, the man will be fighting to get near the chase likely. Unlike some JV fans, I am under no illusions to what he may or may not do. I think like most good drivers who show up in NASCAR in mid career, they have times where they do well, but for the most part, it will be hit and miss. NASCAR has too much depth and is too unique for a guy in mid-career from another series to just jump in and challenge for a championship. He may win a race, he may run up front on occasion, but without a top team and good schooling, he will likely not see the Chase. JPM I think has done better than people expected, but again, he is in the 10 to 20 area in the points most of the time....and I think that is JV's fate as well.
Odds on favorite to will the title this season would have to be Jeff Gordon. Jeff is 4 months younger than Jacques. Age tells us nothing other than ones ages.Quote:
Originally Posted by muggle not
Best days are behind him? So far, yes. To suggest that he has no future opportunities for success would have to be nothing more than your humble opinion.
I am a JV fan and yes, I have no doubt he is as capable of winning a championship as any driver in the series and much more capable than most. And his age has nothing to do with it.
I'm also a fan of Tony Stewart. He's 1 month younger than JV. He's also more than capable of winning another title in spite of his age. But I'd wager that once JV gets a handle on the whole deal, he'll be a better bet if his team is up to it. JV is a smarter and less tempermental racer than Tony, imho.
Dale E Sr. won at 43yo
Dale J won at 43yo
DW won at 38yo
Cale Yarborough won at 38yo
Richard Petty won at 42yo
Harry Gant was winning races at age 54 but he was racing NASCAR stock cars from the age of 33.
In this situation stock car experience has more impact than age. Jeff has been racing NASCAR stock cars since he was 18 and Tony since he was 25. That's where the major difference lies. They have also been in premier rides. BDR is not even close to premier.
I'm sure JV will eventually figure it out. Whether he will win races or not is another story.
Gordon was racing since he was 5. by the time he wonned a championship he has 19 years of racing behind him :eek:
Hmmmmmmmmmm, if memory serves many contenders had engine failure or crashed @ Talladega ...
any driver that finished the race @ Talladega managed to survive through the carnage ...
it didn't neccessarily take talent, it took a good drafting partner & some good luck to make it to the finish ...
the drivers can go back to "real" racing @ Charlotte. :D :up:
True enough about BDR the last few years. However, the CoT seems to be an equalizer and the 'yoda engine appears to be making more power, much as it pains me to say it. And Slugger Labbe can cheat with the best of them!! :p :Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparky1329
Next year will be mostly learning curve for JV, just as it has been for Montoya and the other rookies in the series. What he may be able to do that hasn't been talked about here is bring big money sponsorship to BDR. Enough to buy the best engineering and crew, maybe??
It's easy to win races at an old age when everyone you're racing against is old.
The Toyotas were only fast in qualifying because they didn't qualify on race setups like the top 35 teams did. It's not a matter of horsepower. They may have a few (and I mean few as in "insignificant") more horsepower, but they seem to lack torque.
Uh, I wonder where the 10 came from, seems to me he has been closer to the 20 most if not all of the time. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark in Oshawa
Jeff Gordon used a good stradegy @Talladega .....
race where Villeneuve WASN'T & at the end of the race that was up front ! http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g2...ink/orn/00.gif
Not matter what you guys would find some way to critize JV.
Like it or not hes here, and isnt leaving anytime soon. If he does good you will all say he was lucky and if he crashes you will all be, see he cant drive.
JV has real talent, much like a lot of other guys in NASCAR. He'll have a tough time winning since the field is so deep with talent.
JV does have an arrogance about him, but maybe its because hes that damn good and well if any of you had a speck of his talent, (or even if I did), we would be taking our shot at it.
Drivers used to have longer careers in open-wheel racing . . . . that is, when driving in open-wheel could be considered a "career". Mario Andretti won at age 53. The oldest to ever win in NASCAR was Harry Gant at 52.Quote:
Originally Posted by call_me_andrew
And therein lies the problem. Without competitive equipment JV's results might not be what they could've been in premier stuff. If the results aren't there neither will the sponsors be there. It's the Catch 22 that the middle-of-the-road teams all face.Quote:
Originally Posted by Breeze
Ain't that the truth. They pay for air time. Number of "looks".Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparky1329
On a positive note....wrecked cars get a lot of TV time too. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by muggle not
It took Jeff Gordon 3 yrs in Cup to do that. It was JV's FIRST race in CupQuote:
Jeff Gordon used a good stradegy @Talladega .....
race where Villeneuve WASN'T & at the end of the race that was up front !
Mario's record will not be broken. Even in NASCAR the "Oldest" drivers are getting younger and younger as the series gets more competitive.Quote:
Drivers used to have longer careers in open-wheel racing . . . . that is, when driving in open-wheel could be considered a "career". Mario Andretti won at age 53. The oldest to ever win in NASCAR was Harry Gant at 52.
(but I feel it does bear repeating it here)
Sam Hornish Jr, Jacques Villeneuve, Dario Franchitti & Patrick Carpentier have the same problem.
LACK OF EXPERIENCE IN DRIVING A STOCKCAR !!!
(Driving a stockcar isn't learned overnight, it definately takes seat-time ...
that is why drivers should start in a lower series to learn FIRST !)
I think Montoya has the same problem too. ;)
Found this article;
http://www.scenedaily.com/stories/20..._daily141.html
Sounds interesting
Interesting comment by David Reutimann about Franchitti after the "Caution 250"
Quote:
The guy is good," Reutimann said of Franchitti. "He's smooth. This place is not an easy racetrack.
"For a guy's second race, it was pretty amazing, pretty impressive. I'm not sure what he's got in store for us. He's going to do nothing but get better, and he's already good."
Yeah, they need to hype Franchitti ...
I mean he finished 32nd, 3 laps down to the winner ...
the other 31 guys that finished AHEAD of Franchitti weren't sh*t ...
http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g2...k/laff/fdl.gif
So, let's all sing the Phony Praise Franchitti song together ...
all you sheep out there, listen up now, you are about to be indoctrinated ...
the Busch Series points leader crashed but finished 25th ...
plus there were 28 cars on the lead lap but the praise goes to Franchitti ... http://www.motorsportforum.com/forum...s/rolleyes.gif
He should do very well in NASCAR Cup, unfortunately that cannot be said , for the bulk of the rookies coming up through the traditional rungs in NASCAR. The "Crashfest 250" was a good showcase of their LACK of talent. They were woeful. No wonder NASCAR teams are looking to open wheelers to fill the vacancies.
Good post.Quote:
Originally Posted by RaceFanStan
Not a great fan of Hornish..but future openwheel crossovers should run at least one or two different NASCAR series for a while before they go into Cup, to speed up their learning process, it does have to be for a lengthy period.. Outside of Tracy and Hornish most are where I thought they would be at this stage. Montoya looks like taking ROTY in Cup, so he has achieved his initial benchmark.Quote:
Come on Stan, Who are they going to hype, Bobby East? I mean I know who Bobby East is because I follow sprints and his dad's a well-known car builder, but it's not really news. If Dario comes in and he attracts attention to the series, then the series is better off for it.Quote:
Originally Posted by RaceFanStan
Face it, it's news, and it attracts new fans when a driver from a foreign country, who is married to a famous movie actress, who has won the Indy 500 and an IRL championship, and lost a CART Championship on a tie-breaker to Juan Pablo Montoya comes and races in your series.
This is going to vault Nascar to worldwide popularity much like Mansell did when he came to CART in 1993. (Just tell Bruton not to get any ideas about taking his tracks and splitting the series up :p : )
Now, to give my impressions, because I was actually at the track both days for Friday practice and the race itself:
Franchitti is smooth, up until he had his brake problems, He and Reutimann had the cleanest cars out there. He ran fast and was able to pass cars. He has had brake problems, and that is where his inexperience shows, he has to learn to manage a heavier car over the course of a race so that he has brakes at the end. And I'll tell you, he must have been really abusing the brakes to wear them out that fast with all the cautions in that race, which is why there were 28 cars on the lead lap. (Heck, Ron Young got 3 or four consecutive free passes to get on the lead lap after he had some crash damage) They never ran more than 20 laps of green racing without a caution and that was early in the race. It wasn't so bad in person, but I imagine on TV it was brutal to watch.
Anyway, I'm glad Reutimann won, because he dominated and deserved it, I thought Ambrose did really good too. Franchitti did alright for his first time, too.
Anyway, why should we be surprised when Aussie's come to this board and say "Look what Ambrose did this weekend" We should be happy that Indy/Champ/F1 fans who would have not otherwise given Nascar a second look are coming here to cheer for their drivers and learn about this great branch of Motorsports.
What it all means is that Nascar is #1, because they are attracting the best drivers from all over the world.
Also, just a side comment on open-wheel. I really believe the dynamic difference here is front-engine/ rear-engine. Obviously, sprints have open wheels, but have proven to be a great predictor of success in Nascar, because having a front engine, some of the handling characteristics are the same. It might even be a better training ground because you have to learn some finesse and cannot just beat and bang fenders.
So really this thread is about the rear-engine formula car drivers coming to Nascar, because the up and coming sprint car guys like Kevin Swindell and Ricky Stenhouse Jr are only pointing towards Nascar these days.
Didn't Dick Trickle won a Busch race in his late fifties?Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Ryan
Yes. But the oldest to ever win a Cup race was Harry Gant at 52 . . . a year younger than Mario when he won his last CART race.Quote:
Originally Posted by Erki
Jack Brabham was a F1 championion in 1966 when he was 40. The problem is F1, like NASCAR, ALMS, Grand Am you name it, has dramatically become a lot more competitive and "old gagey gents"do not cut it anymore.Quote:
Yes. But the oldest to ever win a Cup race was Harry Gant at 52 . . . a year younger than Mario when he won his last CART race.
Joey Logano, a 17 year old who will be 18 in June next year will be the best of all the newcomers in the Busch Series, including the O.W. drivers with tons of O.W. experience.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexamateo
The fan base in Nascar has actually been dropping since the O.W. drivers have tried to enter the series.. The TV ratings were down 13.2% in 2006 and are down 8.6% in 2007 to date. That is a bunch of people that Nascar is losing as fans.......and, look at the stands and you will see empty seats almost everywhere.
I gotta agree with you on Joey Logano, he's gonna be a good one.Quote:
Originally Posted by muggle not
Ratings may be down in Nascar, but I don't necessarily think it's cause and effect because of the new drivers. What I do think is that Nascar has plateaued here in the US. I predict ratings will stabilize next year and then they'll rise a year or two and then fall a year or to. That is actually all the more reason to bring in International drivers (although by no means to the level CART used to have, that's too many, you need the connect to American grass-roots level.) That is where growth can come from, international fans following their heroes. That could eventually lead to International Nascar series. Then you could use the chase to really mean something by bringing over their Champions (one or two, not ten of course) and have them compete for the Championship with the 10 or so from here that are qualified for the championship. Don't know if it's workable or not, It's just an idea, and you've got to start somewhere.
Also, commenting on attendance, and seeing empty seats. Tracks have probably overbuilt. That coupled with increased fuel costs cutting into disposable income leads to lower attendance. Personal example, Last year I went to both the Memphis truck race in June, and the Busch race in fall along with Bristol night race. This year I only went to the Fall Busch race. I am not any less of a fan, but a second child and added expenses kept me from going to all the races I wanted to.
Remember 5 years ago any given track was sold out and 80,000, they built more and sold out 110,000 2 years ago. A non sell out 95,000 is still greater than it was, but now you see empty seats.
Alexamateo, I am not putting all the blame on the influx of O.W. drivers. It is the direction that Brian is taking Nascar that is causing the big decline in fans, and not only any fans, but the important group of grass root fans. I live in Greensboro where they have one of the largest groups of the grass roots fans and listening to them talk it is obvious that they are unhappy with things recently. Many of them are saying the hell with Nascar and are becoming more involved with the other sports in the State. Nascar simply cannot lose this base of fans. I talked with some carpenters that were doing work on my house a while ago and asked them if they thought that Nascar would take a date away from Martinsville and they responded that if that happened it would be the end of watching nascar for them.
Along the same line the ratings were down at Texas:
Texas overnight TV ratings down from 2006: ABC's broadcast of Sunday's Dickies 500 Nextel Cup race at Texas Motor Speedway earned a 3.6 overnight Nielsen Media Research rating, Street & Smith's SportsBusiness Daily reports. The figure is 10% lower than the 4.0 NBC earned overnight for the race in 2006.(SceneDaily)
Villeneuve to attempt Phoenix: Jacques Villeneuve will attempt to make his second career Nextel Cup Series start behind the wheel of the #27 Toyota at Phoenix International Raceway. Richard "Slugger" Labbe will once again serve as crew chief.(BDR PR)
Also read that Franchitti will run both the remaining Busch series races.
It's official! Hornish will drive in Cup for Penske in 2008 alongside Ryan and Kurt.
http://www.nascar.com/2007/news/head...ske/index.html
Muggle Not, Brian France has committed the most basic administration sin"If it is not broken, do not fix it". He has undertaken too many changes for a basically fairly conservative fan base. "The Overseas races and foreign drivers" are going to be a bit much for those carpenters working on that house. Throw in bizarre rules changes ;COT and you have a recipe for a lack of interest in NASCAR.Quote:
Many of them are saying the hell with Nascar and are becoming more involved with the other sports in the State. Nascar simply cannot lose this base of fans. I talked with some carpenters that were doing work on my house a while ago and asked them if they thought that Nascar would take a date away from Martinsville and they responded that if that happened it would be the end of watching nascar for them.